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Thread: Borates and lower TA process. two birds with one stone?

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    Borates and lower TA process. two birds with one stone?

    I added salt about a month ago and really like the silky feel of the water. Can I add borates to the water even though I added salt? I am considering borates because I have turned into a real water snob. I just feel like my pool could sparkle a bit more. I try to keep the FC at the low end of recommended because it feels so drying to my skin after I get out and dry off. Because of this (maybe) the water just looks dull.

    It sounds like putting in borates is basically the same as the process of lowering TA. Also, I am not really satisfied with how fast my pH keep raising. Does it make sense to go throughout the lowering TA process and adding borates at the same time. Is this killing two birds with one stone. Here are my numbers today.

    In case it matters, I'm needing to add about 144 oz of bleach daily.

    FC 5
    pH7.7
    TA 130
    CYA 38
    Theresa and/or Gary

    Complete DIY: 20x40' rectangle. Resin walls, vinyl lined. 33000 gallons. Full width steps. 8' deep. Diving board, slide. Hayward pro series super pump, sand filter. Raypack 336K BTU heater. Main drain, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, 2 amerilite lights with quick change lens Aquamatic auto cover and a partridge in a pear tree.
    Breaking our backs in the hopes that one of our six kids will care for us when we are old ;)

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Borates and lower TA process. two birds with one stone?

    Quote Originally Posted by 8corneflakes
    Can I add borates to the water even though I added salt?
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by 8corneflakes
    I try to keep the FC at the low end of recommended because it feels so drying to my skin after I get out and dry off. Because of this (maybe) the water just looks dull.
    Try lowering your FC down to 7.4 (and holding it there) and see if the water does less drying. What is your CH level?

    Quote Originally Posted by 8corneflakes
    Does it make sense to go throughout the lowering TA process and adding borates at the same time. Is this killing two birds with one stone.
    No, lower TA first, then add the borates. TA will be hard to move once borates are added.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Borates and lower TA process. two birds with one stone?

    In case it matters, I'm needing to add about 144 oz of bleach daily.
    I would raise the CYA to 50ppm, I think you'll see a difference that'll make it worth doing.

    Also, if I remember, your pool is VERY active with a heavy swimmer load. Lack of chlorine in a pool like that will make it difficult for your water to sparkle. I would suggest running FC up on the VERY high side of normal when you have all that activity. If you increase the CYA to 50 and run your FC 6-7ppm, I don't think it will increase the "dryness" you experience and may help get the water much clearer.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Borates and lower TA process. two birds with one stone?

    this is interesting because I keep my chlorine at 3 (calculator says 3-7 is normal). I test it every night, to bring it up to 4 or 5 before bed. Then I let it drift back down to 3 while we swim. If it doesn't drift by evening, I make all the kids pee in it I do LOVE that you remember my pool activity...makes me feel special!

    I was just concerneded that keeping the chlorine level above 7 would turn me into a lizard and reek future havoc on my liner. I am going to bring the cya level up and consistently use a higher bleach ppm and see if that helps because I do hate dealing with muriatic acid because I'm still learning.

    We have a family (4 kids, 2 adults) who come to swim on the weekends and I'm desperately trying to keep up with their chlorine demand. Their kids swam all last saturday for 8 hours and NEVER got out to pee. After they left, it took almost 2 days and 20 gallons of bleach to clear the water. They are coming over tomorrow and I plan to have a frank conversation with the kids (just as I once had to do with my own) I know that keeping pee out of the pool is the 1st defense, but as a precaution, can I bring the water to shock before they come over? is ok to swim in shock level water?
    Theresa and/or Gary

    Complete DIY: 20x40' rectangle. Resin walls, vinyl lined. 33000 gallons. Full width steps. 8' deep. Diving board, slide. Hayward pro series super pump, sand filter. Raypack 336K BTU heater. Main drain, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, 2 amerilite lights with quick change lens Aquamatic auto cover and a partridge in a pear tree.
    Breaking our backs in the hopes that one of our six kids will care for us when we are old ;)

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Borates and lower TA process. two birds with one stone?

    Quote Originally Posted by 8corneflakes
    I was just concerneded that keeping the chlorine level above 7 would turn me into a lizard and reek future havoc on my liner. I am going to bring the cya level up and consistently use a higher bleach ppm and see if that helps because I do hate dealing with muriatic acid because I'm still learning.
    That FC level should not be a problem for skin or liner. Ph reeks a lot more havoc on both than does reasonable FC levels (which 7 ppm is reasonable for your cya level).

    Quote Originally Posted by 8corneflakes
    I know that keeping pee out of the pool is the 1st defense, but as a precaution, can I bring the water to shock before they come over? is ok to swim in shock level water?
    Yes swimming up to shock level for you cya level is fine. When I know I am having a big party I usualy raise my FC up to about halfway betwen normal and shock level. Of course, most times I am not warned (or even at home) when it happens
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Borates and lower TA process. two birds with one stone?

    can I bring the water to shock before they come over? is ok to swim in shock level water?
    Yes and yes. Althoughj I would suggest a more even approach.

    Probably an hour before they come, I would bring FC somewhere up around 10ppm rather than going all the way to shock value. Then if a couple of hours has passed, test the chlorine with the OTO chlorine test and if it matches 5ppm or less, put in a large jug of Clorox. In other words, keep up with the demand by testing frequently but not going to shock value where you will probably lose a lot of FC (although there is no harm in shock value other than that)
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Borates and lower TA process. two birds with one stone?

    dear dave,

    if i lived with you, I would ALWAYS let you know when I planned on having a pee...um I mean pool party! You're awesome! Plus, you are so dedicated to solving my problems. Remember waaaay back when I had a teeny AGP and you stuck with me through 16+ days of shocking at mustard algae level? Ahh, the memories



    theresa
    Theresa and/or Gary

    Complete DIY: 20x40' rectangle. Resin walls, vinyl lined. 33000 gallons. Full width steps. 8' deep. Diving board, slide. Hayward pro series super pump, sand filter. Raypack 336K BTU heater. Main drain, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, 2 amerilite lights with quick change lens Aquamatic auto cover and a partridge in a pear tree.
    Breaking our backs in the hopes that one of our six kids will care for us when we are old ;)

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    Re: Borates and lower TA process. two birds with one stone?

    Some folks are more sensitive to Chlorine. Rather than tailor the pool you could tailor the individual. Make up some Chlorine neutralizer. They sell a ready made product but the active ingredient is just ascorbic acid. Grab an old spray bottle and mix up some distilled water and vitamin C and spritz yourself when you get out of the pool. Or if your not the Do It Yourself type, get the store bought stuff. :P :P
    Bill
    18'X4' 7600 Gal AG
    3/4 HP Pentair Pump
    Hayward S166T 100 lb sand filter

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    Re: Borates and lower TA process. two birds with one stone?

    Get out of town! I had no idea. I will do that as I am a do it yourself kind of gal! thanks for that info
    Theresa and/or Gary

    Complete DIY: 20x40' rectangle. Resin walls, vinyl lined. 33000 gallons. Full width steps. 8' deep. Diving board, slide. Hayward pro series super pump, sand filter. Raypack 336K BTU heater. Main drain, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, 2 amerilite lights with quick change lens Aquamatic auto cover and a partridge in a pear tree.
    Breaking our backs in the hopes that one of our six kids will care for us when we are old ;)

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    Re: Borates and lower TA process. two birds with one stone?

    Quote Originally Posted by 8corneflakes
    Get out of town! I had no idea. I will do that as I am a do it yourself kind of gal! thanks for that info
    I know. I followed your Pool dig. If you look up DIY in the dictionary, there's a picture of youse guys right next to the definition.

    I got the idea to look into the store bought stuff after reading the threads here about iron stains and the Chlorine demand after ascorbic acid treatments.
    Bill
    18'X4' 7600 Gal AG
    3/4 HP Pentair Pump
    Hayward S166T 100 lb sand filter

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