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Thread: Getting water balanced to begin BBB method

  1. Back To Top    #1

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    Getting water balanced to begin BBB method

    Hello all,

    I have been lurking this forum for a couple of seasons and am finally ready to make the switch to the BBB method. I purchased a Taylor K-2006C and discovered the CYA level to be high (150+) as I had suspected. Initial test results:

    FC 8.4
    CC .4
    CYA 120
    PH 7.0
    TA 100
    CH 250
    I have ordered 20 boxes of Borax (20 Mule) from Wal-mart and plan to add that when I get everything worked out with CYA. After several days of pumping down the water level and topping off with well water I have the following test results:

    FC 3.4 (adding 2 gal 6% bleach today)
    CC 0
    CYA 60
    PH 7.6
    TA 225-250
    CH 150

    My question is regarding the TA. What caused the climb in TA? Should I deal with this prior to adding the Borax?

    My long term plan is to bring CYA to 50, using liquid bleach (6 or 12% based on cost) and keep back flushing until CYA hits 30. This will allow me to return to using Tablets (Leisure Time 7oz Trichlor with 89% available Chlorine) as needed when I can't make liquid chlorine additions daily. I will keep an eye on CYA during the season and cease tablet use when I hit 50 ppm. Resume water changes until CYA hits 30 and repeat.

    Any suggestions, concerns or comments?
    Thanks,
    Zymurdoo
    26,700 Gal 18x36x5.5 Vinyl Pool
    Pac Fab Triton II TR-50 Sand Filter with Zeobrite media
    3/4 HP A.O. Smith E-Plus Pump (labeled HP=1.3?)
    Currently using pool cover to keep chlorine use down and temps up.

  2. Back To Top    #2
    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Getting water balanced to begin BBB method

    Welcome to tfp, zymurdoo

    Nice job on getting your cya down

    Quote Originally Posted by zymurdoo
    My question is regarding the TA. What caused the climb in TA? Should I deal with this prior to adding the Borax?
    Most likely your fill water was high in TA, mine is too. Yes, deal with it now...it is much harder after the borates are added.

    Quote Originally Posted by zymurdoo
    My long term plan is to bring using liquid bleach (6 or 12% based on cost) and keep back flushing until CYA hits 30.
    Most people have best results around 50 ppm. I am not a fan of your occasional tablet approach since you pool parameters will be a constantly moving target...but if you diligent it can work. Trichlor will also cause you ph to go down.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

  3. Back To Top    #3

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    Re: Getting water balanced to begin BBB method

    Wow, what a quick response, Thanks.

    I tested the well water with the following results:

    PH 7.6-7.8
    TA 200
    CH 120

    So I guess this is where the TA value comes from. What is the best approach for getting the TA down considering that any water added will continue to add to the issue?

    As for using the trichlor tabs there are two reasons I am looking at this approach;

    1. I have almo$t 100 lb$ of tablet$ in my garage $$$,
    2. I am frequently away for 48 hours at a time, sometimes longer, so daily additions of chlorine are impractical.

    My current filter system is getting close to needing replacement. I am thinking of switching to glass media and adding either a SWG or liquid chlorine injection system. An ORP controller would be nice as well. As I get closer I will likely look for suggestions / recommendations.

    Thanks again for all the great info.
    26,700 Gal 18x36x5.5 Vinyl Pool
    Pac Fab Triton II TR-50 Sand Filter with Zeobrite media
    3/4 HP A.O. Smith E-Plus Pump (labeled HP=1.3?)
    Currently using pool cover to keep chlorine use down and temps up.

  4. Back To Top    #4
    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Getting water balanced to begin BBB method

    Quote Originally Posted by zymurdoo
    What is the best approach for getting the TA down considering that any water added will continue to add to the issue?
    http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-...l%20alkalinity

    As to your being gone from the pool, I love my swg and though I keep a close eye on it, rarely do I have to intervene.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Getting water balanced to begin BBB method

    I am now second guessing the addition of Borates to my pool considering the high TA. Does anyone have any suggestions one way or the other?
    26,700 Gal 18x36x5.5 Vinyl Pool
    Pac Fab Triton II TR-50 Sand Filter with Zeobrite media
    3/4 HP A.O. Smith E-Plus Pump (labeled HP=1.3?)
    Currently using pool cover to keep chlorine use down and temps up.

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    Re: Getting water balanced to begin BBB method

    The addition of borates to your pool is an optional item that may or may not have any beneficial effect....most think that it does.

    Regardless, it should be about number 33 on your list of important things to get done in your pool. You can address it much, much later.

    You have a couple of things in your tests to refine so could you please post current test results and we'll help you get your pool chemistry in line? How does your water look?
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Getting water balanced to begin BBB method

    I couldn't agree more with Duraleigh, if you are going to add borates, only do it after you have the rest of the pool chemistry controlled...and maybe give it some time to see if you really desire adding them. If you do decide to go to Borates, get your TA down before you add them, since it is hard after.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Getting water balanced to begin BBB method

    Thanks for the input. I am spending the day making some adjustments and will post test results in a little while. Ph was running a little high this morning so I am attacking the Ph and TA as I post this. I used the pool calc and reduced the Ph to 7.4 while I was out to breakfast. Just made a second Muriatic Acid addition and will wait 30-60 mins and post the results.

    0800 June 24 Results (before any adjustments)

    FC - 3.5
    CC - <.5
    CYA - 30
    pH - 8.0
    TA - 190
    CH - 150
    I have not been doing the acid demand tests.

    1100 June 24 results (after adding 1.25 gal 14.5% Muriatic Acid and circulating 2 hours)
    FC - 2.5
    CC - <.5 but present
    CYA - 30
    pH - 7.4
    TA - 175
    CH - 150

    Added 64 oz of 6% liquid bleach and 2 gal of 14.5% Muriatic acid. Currently filling pool with aerated well water. More results to follow.

    Edited to add: Pool temp 80. I am in Central AZ with lots of sunlight on the pool. Outside temps currently around 100 with overnight lows around 65-68. We have been keeping the pool covered most of the time, during the day to combat chlorine loss and at night to prevent heat loss while completing our water changes. The pool is crystal clear right now. Prior to beginning the water changes to lower CYA it was a little on the cloudy side. We have had a constant problem with scaling on the vinyl liner, plastic steps and metal ladder.
    26,700 Gal 18x36x5.5 Vinyl Pool
    Pac Fab Triton II TR-50 Sand Filter with Zeobrite media
    3/4 HP A.O. Smith E-Plus Pump (labeled HP=1.3?)
    Currently using pool cover to keep chlorine use down and temps up.

  9. Back To Top    #9

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    Re: Getting water balanced to begin BBB method

    1240 6/24 Test results

    FC - 3.5
    CC - Present <.5
    CYA - 30
    pH - 7.0 (Note Base demand test was 7 drops to 7.6)
    TA - 160
    CH - 150

    Pool is nearly filled at this time. Thinking of heading to the hardware store to build a return flow aeration device.

    Any suggestions?

    Thanks, Rick
    26,700 Gal 18x36x5.5 Vinyl Pool
    Pac Fab Triton II TR-50 Sand Filter with Zeobrite media
    3/4 HP A.O. Smith E-Plus Pump (labeled HP=1.3?)
    Currently using pool cover to keep chlorine use down and temps up.

  10. Back To Top    #10

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    Re: Getting water balanced to begin BBB method

    Put in your sig that your pool has a cover and you use it. That changes the FC and CYA requirements dramatically and will keep a lot of us from being confused.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Getting water balanced to begin BBB method

    [quote="zymurdoo"
    Thinking of heading to the hardware store to build a return flow aeration device.[/quote]

    Built and running. 10 foot of 1.5 inch PVC with holes on 6 inch centers. Will post results in the morning after it runs all night. I did a quick pH check at the 2 hour mark and it was running 7.2. TA still running high so hopefully I can do another Muriatic Acid addition in the AM.
    26,700 Gal 18x36x5.5 Vinyl Pool
    Pac Fab Triton II TR-50 Sand Filter with Zeobrite media
    3/4 HP A.O. Smith E-Plus Pump (labeled HP=1.3?)
    Currently using pool cover to keep chlorine use down and temps up.

  12. Back To Top    #12

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    Re: Getting water balanced to begin BBB method

    Latest results after shocking pool, leaving uncovered for 48+ hours with aeration 17 hours per day...

    6/30/2012 0845

    FC 5.5
    CC .2
    CYA 30
    pH 7.4-7.6
    TA - 150
    CH - 150

    Pool is clear, pH is slowly rising but due to evaporation I am adding a couple of inches of well water which should slightly increase pH and TA. I feel like trying to get the TA down to the recommended 100-120 will be a constant battle and money drain of adding Muriatic acid.

    Is there really any benefit of getting the TA down in a vinyl pool? Scaling due to mineral content of my well water seems inevitable as well as slight cloudiness noted when swimming at night the pool light on.

    Thanks again for all of the advice posted in these forums.
    26,700 Gal 18x36x5.5 Vinyl Pool
    Pac Fab Triton II TR-50 Sand Filter with Zeobrite media
    3/4 HP A.O. Smith E-Plus Pump (labeled HP=1.3?)
    Currently using pool cover to keep chlorine use down and temps up.

  13. Back To Top    #13
    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Getting water balanced to begin BBB method

    What was the reason for shocking the pool? I didn't see/hear a need in your previous posts.

    Regarding TA, you do not have to lower it, it should slowly lower itself with the acid you will need to add to it quite oftern to keep it below 7.8. The method above will just get you lower quicker.

    How much evaporation are you getting?
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

  14. Back To Top    #14

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    Re: Getting water balanced to begin BBB method

    Sorry for my delayed response. I somehow missed the previous reply to my post.

    Quote Originally Posted by linen
    What was the reason for shocking the pool? I didn't see/hear a need in your previous posts.
    CC had risen to .5 and I was going to be away for 48+ hours.

    How much evaporation are you getting?
    Living in the Arizona desert, water evaporation is on the fast side. Up until this week evaporation is around .5 inch or more per day. Since then the humidity has increased so it has slowed down a little. We are located in a higher desert climate and overnight temps will drop pool temperature to the mid 70's if the pool is left uncovered.

    Todays test results:
    1000 July 9
    FC - 3.5
    CC - <.5
    CYA - 60 (have been using the tri-chlor tabs. The increase from 30-60 was a bit quicker than I expected. I plan to switch back to liquid bleach as of today)
    pH - 7.8
    TA - 150
    CH - 150

    The TA never seems to drop much and my pH is always gravitating towards 8.0 (even without aeration), so I don't ever see getting the TA down to the recommended levels. I have decided to hold off on adding borates, as expressed previously, unless someone in a similar situation can chime in with a good reason to do so.
    26,700 Gal 18x36x5.5 Vinyl Pool
    Pac Fab Triton II TR-50 Sand Filter with Zeobrite media
    3/4 HP A.O. Smith E-Plus Pump (labeled HP=1.3?)
    Currently using pool cover to keep chlorine use down and temps up.

  15. Back To Top    #15
    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Getting water balanced to begin BBB method

    Thanks for responding.

    Just a note...CC at 0.5 is not uncommon, and in itself is not a reason to shock. Going away for awhile is a good reason to bring it to shock level.

    If you purposely lower your ph to 7.2 when ever it creeps up due to make-up water, etc., you may still get a net decrease in TA (even with high make up TA).
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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