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Thread: 12% bleach: how to pour?

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    12% bleach: how to pour?

    Hi all,
    This is my second season using the BBB method and I want to report excellent results.
    Not a hint of algae, CYA levels now manageable since I stopped using pucks.

    I am fortunate that my local pool supply stocks the large blue carboys of 12% bleach.

    But: they are a bear to handle and pour. Anyone know of a handy spout, or a hand-pump that wouldn't be destroyed by the bleach?
    Or do most people just pour it in and then splash water around to clean up the drips?
    Location: Media, PA (Philadelphia suburb).
    In-ground, 13,000 gallon pool, plaster, built 2008-9.
    Pump Whisper-flow 60 gpm DE filter
    Spa: 2013 Hot Springs/salt generator

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: 12% bleach: how to pour?

    There are several suggestions in this topic.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    gullzway's Avatar
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    Re: 12% bleach: how to pour?

    I leave mine in the bucket and use some irrigation drippers along with a valve on the suction side of the pump to safely get it in the pool.
    17,500 gallon 18x36 gunite pool
    Hayward super II 1.5 hp pump, Hayward cartridge filter
    Jandy AquaPure Ei SWG 35K, Raypak R6350TI-E HeatPump
    Solar cover, Loop Lok winter Cover
    Artisian Antigua hot tub, Polk Atrium 4's

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    Re: 12% bleach: how to pour?

    Can you provide more details/close ups on how the dripper is installed? Is there any ability to control the flow?
    Aaron
    [ Vogue Vectra 24' AG | Hard plumb: Hayward Power-Flo Matrix 1HP 2-speed, 27" sand filter & Pentair MiniMax 100 NG | Taylor K-2006 | Central IL ]
    Powered by: TFP, PoolMath & TFTestkits

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    Re: 12% bleach: how to pour?

    I was wondering the same. Looks like its connected to the pump drain port and presumably the flow is regulated by the little blue (ball?) valve there; I hope it's corrosion-resistant.

    Neat idea but what happens when the pump goes off - surely concentrated chlorine accumulates in the pump chamber, which can't be a good thing, unless you manually close the valve each time, or are running 24/7.

    As someone who has just switched to BBB, and adds it (10.8% pool bleach) manually in front of the return flow, I was also wondering - surely there is appreciable degradation of concentrated bleach when held outside in a container like that, even in the shade. Do you dilute it first? I would assume the same consideration applies to feeders like the Liquidator also?

    I store my bleach in my basement, the coolest place. It's not such a big deal for me to take a 4L container out there once a day (mid-evening for me), measure it out in a jug (typically 0.75 - 1 L) and pour it in. Takes less time than it does to test the FC level (FAS-DPD) for dosing. There again, it's still a novelty for me

    wkussmaul, if the large carboy containers are difficult to manage (as I am sure they are), why not distribute into smaller containers (say empty 4L jugs) for storage and/or in-use.....uh, like in the link Jason provided (now I've looked at)?
    "Inherited" Cornelius 18'x54" Round AGP (Steel walls), Hayward Pro Series 21" Sand Filter, ClubPro (Jacuzzi) 1HP single speed pump, Lumi-O Festiva steps, Toile-Soleil mesh leaf net/winter cover. That's about it.

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    bobodaclown's Avatar
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    Re: 12% bleach: how to pour?

    I think this may be the post being referred to: homemade-acid-or-chlorine-injection-system-t4174.html
    17K Kidney Shaped Pool Concrete (Diamond Bright) Pool, 3/4 hp 2 speed 115V Sta-rite Duraglas PEA5D-180L/P2R5D-181L (Impeller C105-92PS Diffuser C1-216P), 1.5 piping, Pentair CC100 Filter , Heat Siphon 100K BTU Heat Pump Pool Heater, Flow meter Blue White Flowmeter Model No. F-30150P, Hayward Astrolight SP0581N, SWCG CalimarTitanium Edition TE45 , Dolphin Nautilus Plus with CleverClean, Lakeland Florida

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    gullzway's Avatar
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    Re: 12% bleach: how to pour?

    Quote Originally Posted by bobodaclown
    I think this may be the post being referred to: homemade-acid-or-chlorine-injection-system-t4174.html
    That's where I got the idea. Its a simple pvc valve with some tubing and irrigation drippers from Lowes/home depot. Connected to the suction side drain of the pump. The drippers slow the flow down, you have to experiment with the amount of drippers depending on pump run time. I run mine 6 hrs/day. 5 gallons lasts around 2 Weeks on my pool.

    As far as the bleach degrading, I don't know, but I wouldn't think in 2 Weeks it would lose much strength. Not too concerned as I get it from my work where we have two 3000 gallon tanks of 12.5% chlorine.

    When the pump shuts off it stops siphoning chlorine, so I doubt there is that much of a concentration in the pump.
    Also, you have to close the valve if your using a suction side cleaner like my kreepy krauly, or it will suck all the chlorine in the pool due to the increased suction head.

    17,500 gallon 18x36 gunite pool
    Hayward super II 1.5 hp pump, Hayward cartridge filter
    Jandy AquaPure Ei SWG 35K, Raypak R6350TI-E HeatPump
    Solar cover, Loop Lok winter Cover
    Artisian Antigua hot tub, Polk Atrium 4's

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    Re: 12% bleach: how to pour?

    Quote Originally Posted by gullzway
    As far as the bleach degrading, I don't know, but I wouldn't think in 2 Weeks it would lose much strength.
    According to these data, around 10-12% loss in strength at 80oF over 2 weeks and maybe double that at 90oF......at least with 'commercial' 12.5% bleach

    chlorine-degradation-due-to-heat-over-time-t24789.html

    http://www.odysseymanufacturing.com/decomp_curve.htm

    Quote Originally Posted by gullzway
    Not too concerned as I get it from my work where we have two 3000 gallon tanks of 12.5% chlorine.
    Yeah, I guess that helps.

    The Purox bleach I get from Canadian Tire is stated to be 10.8% (guaranteed) on the label. The MSDS however states 7-13% sodium hypochlorite.

    http://www.sissiboofarmsupplies.com/MSDS/Clorox.pdf

    I can't believe it's that variable at production so probably they (Clorox Canada) produce at 13% and allow for a loss of up to 46% through handling, distribution and storage. So I reckon the 10.8% must be based on an average production-to-in-store interval of something like two weeks. The 7% then allows for a more gradual degradation over a period of months in-store.

    I guess if you're getting your 12% stuff from a plant source you've got a head start. Also if you are dosing with a (semi) continuous feed, it's less of an issue, and you can regulate accordingly. But if, like me, you are single dosing a calculated volume of bleach, it's potentially more significant. For now however, the 5 or so 4L bottles I've bought have given the expected rise in FC ppm, so they must be around 10% at least. If I do continue using the Purox later in the season (assuming stocks last) I might be inclined to confirm the concentration and I don't think I'd stockpile.

    Several years back CaOCl2 tested a batch and found it to be down to 8.5%:

    practices-in-a-pool-store-piercing-the-veil-of-ignorance-t25345-20.html

    Interesting that the MSDS for Clorox Ultra (6%) states a concentration range of 5-8%.

    http://msds.flexoproducts.com:8000/MSDS ... X%2012.pdf

    Which perhaps gives greater confidence that you are actually getting your 6%.
    Also the evidence is that 5% bleach has something like 3X the half life of 10% bleach and 7X that of 15% bleach at temperatures ranging from to 75- 90oF

    http://www.odysseymanufacturing.com/about_product.htm

    So, I think if I was to consider a similar sort of regulated flow dosing system I'd maybe look at using a more dilute bleach solution, even if that involves filling up the feed reservoir more often.
    "Inherited" Cornelius 18'x54" Round AGP (Steel walls), Hayward Pro Series 21" Sand Filter, ClubPro (Jacuzzi) 1HP single speed pump, Lumi-O Festiva steps, Toile-Soleil mesh leaf net/winter cover. That's about it.

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    Re: 12% bleach: how to pour?

    Thanks for all the above suggestions.
    The DIY auto-chlorinator is too much for me.

    My solution, suggested by several, was to use 5/8" clear plastic tubing to siphon the bleach into jugs.
    With practice, I can now do this without getting any on my hands (I hate that smell!).

    JasonLion's link given above contains a detailed how-to.
    Location: Media, PA (Philadelphia suburb).
    In-ground, 13,000 gallon pool, plaster, built 2008-9.
    Pump Whisper-flow 60 gpm DE filter
    Spa: 2013 Hot Springs/salt generator

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    WestSidePool's Avatar
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    Re: 12% bleach: how to pour?

    Would something like this work for you?

    Eric

    IG 17x33 Grecian - Vinyl Liner (21k gallons), Hayward Pro-Grid DE 4820 filter, Hayward Super Pump, CompuPool SWG CPSC36, TF-100 Test Kit

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