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Thread: BBB method alternatives?

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    BBB method alternatives?

    We have an Intex AGP and I have been lurking on here for a bit. The BBB method sounds great but my wife INSISTS that we don't put bleach in our pool with the kids. I have shown her the labels that show its the exact same stuff, but I will choose my battles wisely.

    We picked up 3'' pucks at Wal-Mart for chlorine and also some ph minus. Tested water and CYA was at 10, so I got some stabilizer also and put it in a sock on the ladder. Will all of this work together or should I just do pool maintenance while she is at work?

    Marriage at its finest, eh?
    Intex 15' X 48'' Metal Frame ~5,000 gallons
    2,650 gph Intex Sand Filter
    Hayward wide mouth skimmer
    BBB and Borated

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: BBB method alternatives?

    Do you know what your current cya (stablizer) level is?

    The pucks will add cya to your water very quickly, and once it is high the only way to lower is to drain/refill.

    I would recommend you fight this battle with her...maybe have her read this article: http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-.../bbb_for_pools or just use liquid chlorine, which doesn't say bleach on the bottle, but it just higher concentration sodium hypochlorite.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: BBB method alternatives?

    PoolGuy87: Is DW willing to read this forum?
    You might point out that a Chemist with over 20 years in an industrial laboratory (me :blush: ) is using this method and that there are a lot of people on this site that have backgrounds in pool maintenance using this method in their own pools.

    See if she'll read some of the Pool School documents.

    If she is still unreasonable... then we need to find a convenient truth: Now, what I would do, is go to the local hardware (ie Menards, Ace, Lowe's, etc.. if you're in the U.S.) or the pool store (ONLY if cheaper!) and look for the liquid chlorine: Here's one from Menard's - it's just one brand: http://www.menards.com/main/outdoor/...17-c-10137.htm This is the more concentrated version (10 to 12%) of the bleach you use in the laundry (6%) - The point here is that it is labeled for pool use.

    Don't tell her it's bleach... tell her it's liquid chlorine, or liquid pool sanitizer. These are both true statements; this way you can continue to use the BBB method and not lie to your DW! You'll never get away with trying to sneak the BBB method behind her back, the girls can read minds... at least my DW seems to be able too...

    Good luck!
    -wc
    Intex Ultraframe 14'x3.5-Round (4000ish-gal) AG - Vinyl - Intex 5667EG Sand Filter 1600gph :)
    ( retired: 637R Crtrge 1000gph someday it may have another life as a water fountain... or feet washer! Solar Water Heater? )

    :mrgreen: Click here to Goto Pool School. :scratch: How Much Of What? Click Here - Poolcalculator.com :lookhere: TestKits

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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: BBB method alternatives?

    Do you think she would feel any better if she read it from an official source like Clorox?

    www.clorox.com/pdf/5813-50_service-bulletins.pdf
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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    Re: BBB method alternatives?

    I'll test my CYA tomorrow. I pulled my sock out last night to make sure I didn't add too much. If I'm using pucks, I'll see what they bring it to. As far as convincing the wife, I may try the liquid chlorine method. Is it ok to finish using my pucks and then switch? I'd imagine so, but want to make sure.

    I had to add 3 cups of baking soda yesterday to raise my TA and wanted to add it right before we swam to mix it. She freaked because she didn't want to swim with that stuff. Ugh, she is making it VERY difficult to maintain this thing. (The evil part of me wishes I didn't add anything to it and let her see what happens in two weeks....GO SWIM IN THAT!!!)
    Intex 15' X 48'' Metal Frame ~5,000 gallons
    2,650 gph Intex Sand Filter
    Hayward wide mouth skimmer
    BBB and Borated

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    techguy's Avatar
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    BBB method alternatives?

    If I read it correctly, she is concerned about adding the bleach/sanitizer and then adding the kids to the pool. If this is the problem, try adding the chems to the pool in the evening, after the kids have finished for the day. The BBB method depends on daily maintenance and if you add the chems in the evening, after use, it will have time to clean up the pool. If you are going to loose chlorine, it will be lowest in the late afternoon (when the kids get in) and then you add the new dose after use... Lather, rinse, repeat.
    -- Guy --
    10K gallons in 21' Round 52 inch wall Aqualeader AG, Hayward Power Flow LX 1.5 HP pump motor, Hayward Perflex EC50AC DE filter w/Cellulose, Wide mouth skimmer, 2013 new Diver Dan (craigslist) to replace the faded old Hayward AquaBug. TF-100

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    Re: BBB method alternatives?

    Here's another... on a different thread here (I'll have to search it again) there was a link...
    http://www.anotherperfectpoolnews.co...ool-chemicals/

    (EDIT: Noticed... in the links to right of the page... guess who'e there... that's right TFP! )


    Have her watch the videos (read the caption under one.... "Just click on the video on the left and see what happens when a little Coca-Cola is poured on granular Cal-Hypo ó again ó DONíT TRY THIS AT HOME!" Even as a chemist, I wouldn't try this at home and I have idea what I'm doing!)

    ... then ask, which is safer, BBB or the other stuff............

    -wc
    Intex Ultraframe 14'x3.5-Round (4000ish-gal) AG - Vinyl - Intex 5667EG Sand Filter 1600gph :)
    ( retired: 637R Crtrge 1000gph someday it may have another life as a water fountain... or feet washer! Solar Water Heater? )

    :mrgreen: Click here to Goto Pool School. :scratch: How Much Of What? Click Here - Poolcalculator.com :lookhere: TestKits

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    Re: BBB method alternatives?

    She just doesn't want the kids to swim with BLEACH period. Not necessarily elevated levels versus minimal levels, but the idea of BLEACH!!!!! She thinks that the pool chemicals have been tested, blah, blah blah....

    Of course, when we bought the pool she wanted to go right to the pool store and load up, which I refused to do. I think I'll finish out my pucks (5 left) and then switch to liquid chlorine and check my CYA levels then. Liquid chlorine doesn't add CYA also does it?
    Intex 15' X 48'' Metal Frame ~5,000 gallons
    2,650 gph Intex Sand Filter
    Hayward wide mouth skimmer
    BBB and Borated

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    Re: BBB method alternatives?

    Not sure if this explanation helps your cause or not, but the sanitizing agent in your swimming pool is hypochlorous acid (HOCl). HOCl is created in the pool by adding chlorine. So, whether you add dichlor, trichlor, cal-hypo, bleach, or "pool shock" (read: powder, pucks, or liquid), they ALL react with water to create the same HOCl, which cleans the pool.
    33' round, 23,000 gal AG vinyl , 1HP 2spd PowerFlo Matrix downsized with 3/4HP impeller (X2), Hayward S180T 150# sand filter (X2), Hayward H250 NG heater Pool Store year 1 - $850 for 2 months; Pool Store year 2 - $440 for 2 months, TFPC year 1 - $170 for 4 months; TFPC year 2 - $95 for 4.5 months
    The most important article on this site - The ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry

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    Re: BBB method alternatives?

    correct, liquid chlorine DOES NOT add CYA.
    17K Kidney Shaped Pool Concrete (Diamond Bright) Pool, 3/4 hp 2 speed 115V Sta-rite Duraglas PEA5D-180L/P2R5D-181L (Impeller C105-92PS Diffuser C1-216P), 1.5 piping, Pentair CC100 Filter , Heat Siphon 100K BTU Heat Pump Pool Heater, Flow meter Blue White Flowmeter Model No. F-30150P, Hayward Astrolight SP0581N, SWCG CalimarTitanium Edition TE45 , Dolphin Nautilus Plus with CleverClean, Lakeland Florida

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    Re: BBB method alternatives?

    Quote Originally Posted by PoolGuy87
    She just doesn't want the kids to swim with BLEACH period. Not necessarily elevated levels versus minimal levels, but the idea of BLEACH!!!!! She thinks that the pool chemicals have been tested, blah, blah blah....
    OK< Logic is out the window...

    If you're brave enough... ask her what she thinks the kids are swiming in at the public pool or water park... of course, I have a nice warm bed calling me.

    -wc
    Intex Ultraframe 14'x3.5-Round (4000ish-gal) AG - Vinyl - Intex 5667EG Sand Filter 1600gph :)
    ( retired: 637R Crtrge 1000gph someday it may have another life as a water fountain... or feet washer! Solar Water Heater? )

    :mrgreen: Click here to Goto Pool School. :scratch: How Much Of What? Click Here - Poolcalculator.com :lookhere: TestKits

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    Samantha Sabrina's Avatar
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    Re: BBB method alternatives?

    You might consider showing her the ingredients of "bleach" right next to the ingredients of the pucks.

    They should both list chlorine, and then point out the additional ingredients in the pucks.
    Samantha

    In the process of building for a 22' Intex Ultra Frame, (completion date up in the air at this point).
    We could not beat our backyard into submission so we "Buried It".

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    Re: BBB method alternatives?

    Samantha,

    I did exactly that, and she said she doesn't care and she will not let the kids swim with bleach. don't you know bleach is only used for laundry?!?

    I'm not going to battle with her, go buy the "pool chemicals" (liquid chlorine) and hopefully the pool remains fun for everyone. The point is to enjoy it and not let it be an arguing point!

    I appreciate the help of everyone and cheers to happy swimming!!!
    Intex 15' X 48'' Metal Frame ~5,000 gallons
    2,650 gph Intex Sand Filter
    Hayward wide mouth skimmer
    BBB and Borated

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    Samantha Sabrina's Avatar
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    Re: BBB method alternatives?

    LOL, well ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

    Sounds like you have the right idea, buy the stuff "Labeled" for pools and keep the peace.

    At least you are smart enough to pick your battles.
    Samantha

    In the process of building for a 22' Intex Ultra Frame, (completion date up in the air at this point).
    We could not beat our backyard into submission so we "Buried It".

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    Re: BBB method alternatives?

    I'm in the Phoenix area and the cheapest chlorine in any form I've found is at Walmart. If you compare the 6% vs. the 10%, even the dollar store stuff, the 10% comes out cheaper to use. I haven't found any great deals around here so I get my "pool sanitizer" from Walmart.
    Either man up and tell her the way it's going to be (hope you have a nice couch) or buy the 10% at Walmart and be done with it.
    Well, I suppose you could buy 4 gallons with all the fancy writing on them saying they are pool chemicals and keep the bottles when you're done with them. If you have someplace that sells cheaper bleach, just transfer the contents from one bottle to the bottles with the fancy labels.
    Would that work for ya????
    Mesa Arizona. Old school 26,000 gallon in ground plaster pool with sand filter built in 1984.

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    Re: BBB method alternatives?

    Bleach gets a bad rap - probably because it's one of the strongest industrial chemicals found in a typical home. Your wife uses it, and knows it's dangerous and is therefore fearful of it. Fair enough.

    But we cant forget - Bleach is what keeps the Cholera out of our drinking water. The EPA says you can have 3ppm of Bleach in your drinking water - and in fact if you dont have at least 1ppm of Bleach in your drinking water then it's unsafe to drink!

    One of the things people get hung up on with "BBB" is it sounds a lot like Use Laundry Detergent in the pool. But really it has nothing to do with that. What we are in search of are the purest forms of chemistry we need - with no additives - at the cheapest price. If we found these products at an automotive store or restaurant supply - we'd go there. It happens that this chemistry is found at the grocery store.

    The thing about Bleach (Sodium Hypochlorite, Chlorine, whatever) is that is can be described as "Salt (the kind you eat) + Water + Energy" It's this extra energy that gives bleach it's disinfectant properties. But the beauty is once Bleach does it's thing it looses it's extra energy and converts back to salt. So there is no build up of anything in the water - except salt (the kind you eat)

    I totally appreciate the skepticism. It's really hard to trust the information you find on the internet. So much of it is bogus. But you wont find a more detailed, technical, scientific and community oriented group of people than you'll find here.

    If in the end it feels better to use 12% Sodium Hypochlorite "Pool Shock" rather than 6% Sodium Hypochlorite "Clorox Bleach" - go for it. Just keep in mind ALL forms of solid pool chlorine contain additional chemicals that DO build up over time and can cause problems. It's not that they are unsafe - you just gotta know what they are.

    Anyways - I wish you and your wife a great summer. Kids and a pool are really what life is all about.

    You can find a very detailed discussion of the chemical makeup of these products here :

    post190888.html#p190888
    16K Gal Plaster | Compupool SWG | Intelliflow VF | TF-100

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    Re: BBB method alternatives?

    You guys are awesome!! I feel like I shouldn't prod too hard and we'll see what happens when "the dust settles". For now, I will use the "pool stuff" and see where the idea goes. Maybe later in the summer she will realize its the same stuff and we can just dump bleach.

    However, keeping an old liquid chlorine bottle around and adding bleach may work. We'll see how observant she is.
    Intex 15' X 48'' Metal Frame ~5,000 gallons
    2,650 gph Intex Sand Filter
    Hayward wide mouth skimmer
    BBB and Borated

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    Smykowski's Avatar
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    Re: BBB method alternatives?

    Quote Originally Posted by PoolGuy87
    For now, I will use the "pool stuff" and see where the idea goes.
    I'll second the above advice....I've been pricing liquid chlorine in all concentrations for the past 6 months, and the best value I've found is the 12.5%, labeled as "Pool Shock" or "Liquid Pool Shock" or the like, and I was getting it for $2.50 a gallon. That's better than WalMart prices on laundry bleach. You should be able to use BBB while using chemicals labelled for swimming pools, and still pay the cheapest price.

    Good luck.
    33' round, 23,000 gal AG vinyl , 1HP 2spd PowerFlo Matrix downsized with 3/4HP impeller (X2), Hayward S180T 150# sand filter (X2), Hayward H250 NG heater Pool Store year 1 - $850 for 2 months; Pool Store year 2 - $440 for 2 months, TFPC year 1 - $170 for 4 months; TFPC year 2 - $95 for 4.5 months
    The most important article on this site - The ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry

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    Re: BBB method alternatives?

    Quote Originally Posted by PoolGuy87
    However, keeping an old liquid chlorine bottle around and adding bleach may work. We'll see how observant she is.
    Aha! I was waiting for this to come out! I never condone being deceitful, but sometimes, in order to prove a point, you gotta do what you gotta do. My wife had the same concerns with bleach. But at the end of the day, all she wanted to do was swim in a healthy pool. I presented evidence, and that was that.
    Kansas City, MO
    13500 gallon Foxx vinyl sport pool--inground (1988)
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    Ray-Pak 406A digital
    1.5 HP single speed
    400 gallon Heldor inground spa, octagon

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    Re: BBB method alternatives?

    If she takes a whiff of the liquid chlorine (chlorinating liquid), isn't she going to think it's just a stronger form of BLEACH (which it is, of course)? I guess it just comes down to what the label says.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
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