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Thread: Ok, this must be Rocket Science.....HELP!!!

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    Ok, this must be Rocket Science.....HELP!!!

    New tub was filled Wednesday....my Nature 2 start-up kit arrived yesterday...first soak last night. I installed the Nature 2 filter. I didn't think they had included any DIClOR, so I wasn't able to add any until tonight. When I got home this evening, the water had a slight light green tint...no odor. My test kit has not arrived, so I really can't test what I am dealing with. ( Once I read the bottle, I realized I had the DICLOR...) What do I need to do? No one peed in it. I may have mentioned that I had used Baqua-spa before, and I hated it. ( not in this one)

    So, I guess I will go to the pool store and buy a test kit tomorrow...I really want this to be easy and simple, as you guys have all attested to.

    Could something have been lest in it from the factory....it is brand new.

    Thanks for any and all help....margee

  2. Back To Top    #2

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    Re: Ok, this must be Rocket Science.....HELP!!!

    Welcome to TFP!

    The Nature 2 adds metals to your water. There is no chlorine with the Nature 2. What happened was that you probably waited too long to add chlorine and ended up with algae.

    If you would post a set of test results to include FC, CC, CYA, pH, TA, and CH, we can help you figure out the problem that you are having. As a side note, we advise against using Nature 2, Pool Frog, and other mineral systems. These expensive products add metals to the water which stain surfaces (and hair) and do little to benefit the user. They sell based on the false premise that one can get by with less chlorine when using their systems. Truth is, you still need the same amount of chlorine with these systems as you would without them.

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    Re: Ok, this must be Rocket Science.....HELP!!!

    Nature 2 is designed to work with non-chlorine sanitizers. If you added dichlor to the spa that may have given the water a greenish tint. Did you purchase the whole Nature 2 system for the spa or just the mineral cartridges you insert in the spa filter?
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    Re: Ok, this must be Rocket Science.....HELP!!!

    Nature2 for spas contains silver and zinc, not copper. It's the Nature2 product for pools that contains copper and silver. For spas, the product is designed to work with non-chlorine shock (MPS) where in combination with silver ions at hot spa temperatures it is a registered EPA disinfectant.
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    Re: Ok, this must be Rocket Science.....HELP!!!

    Good Morning!
    Boy, do I get confused easily...must be my aging brain! I 'thought' I was to add Dichlor to the spa with the Nature 2...The Spa Depot sent me the starter kit, and it contains the MSP and the Dichlor. Anyway, the water looks much better this morning after adding the DICHLOR. I think I am going to remove the Nature 2, as suggested.

    I don't have my Taylor K-2006 Kit yet....depending on when/if I get finished with housework today if I can get by a pool store and purchase one today.

    Another question: If I remove the Nature 2 cartridge...add the DICHLOR... I will be out of town next week...what should hubby do while I am gone? Not sure if he will use the spa while I am away Mon-Fri, and I want the water great when I land Friday night.

    Thanks so much. This is different than the Bacqua-spa, which I an certain I never did correctly!!!!

  6. Back To Top    #6

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    Re: Ok, this must be Rocket Science.....HELP!!!

    The pool store is unlikely to have the K-2006 (they might have a K-2005, but that's not the same thing. Your best value would be to order the TFTestkits TF-100 or if you do get the K-2005 locally, then get the FAS-DPD Chlorine Test.

    If you are going to be using chlorine, then there's really no need for the Nature2. Read Using Chlorine in a Spa. The basic rules for chlorine use are:

    • If you suspect this spa has biofilms in the piping, which you can tell if your 24-hour chlorine loss when the spa is not in use is more than 25% (assuming you don't have an ozonator -- do you have one?), then use Spa System Flush. This is a one-time event; subsequent maintenance with chlorine should prevent significant biofilm formation.[/*:m:o8kx4jl3]
    • Lower your Total Alkalinity (TA) level to around 50 ppm by adding acid and aerating (running jets) as with the Lower Total Alkalinity procedure. This will help reduce the rate of pH rise when you switch to using bleach after Dichlor.[/*:m:o8kx4jl3]
    • Add 50 ppm Borates which you can get as boric acid from The Chemistry Store or AAA Chemicals or from Proteam Gentle Spa (though some have recently reported that it isn't pH neutral like it is supposed to be).[/*:m:o8kx4jl3]
    • Initially use Dichlor for about a week or until you've cumulatively added around 30 ppm or so chlorine. That gives you a Cyanuric Acid (CYA) base. Then switch to using 6% unscented bleach (Clorox Regular or off-brand Ultra). The dosing amount for every person-hour of soaking is 3-1/2 teaspoons of Dichlor or 5 fluid ounces of 6% bleach, assuming you have no ozonator. Dose right after your soak. Measure FC just before your soak and if it's 1-2 ppm, then great, if too low then add more chlorine after your soaks and if too high then add less -- the goal is to try and get to 1-2 ppm FC just before your soak.[/*:m:o8kx4jl3]
    • You need to add chlorine in between your soaks if you aren't soaking every day or two. You can probably get away with adding it every other day, but remember that it may drop by 25% per day so from 4 ppm to 3 ppm, for example. So you'll probably have to add the equivalent of at least 0.5 ppm FC each day (or 1 ppm every other day) to keep it at around 2 ppm.[/*:m:o8kx4jl3]
    • About once each month, use Dichlor for a day (i.e. after one soak), to replenish CYA that slowly gets broken down.[/*:m:o8kx4jl3]


    Note that the lowering of TA and adding borates is only done once after each drain/refill. After initial setup, maintenance is easy and by using Dichlor-then-bleach, your water should last at least twice as long between drain/refill cycles and the water will be in better shape. Since you likely have a regular pattern of soak time and number of people, the maintenance becomes fairly automatic and rote, just adding chlorine after each soak (and adding a little in between if you don't soak every day or two). You can use The Pool Calculator to calculate dosing for borates and FC (though the amount of chlorine you add after each soak is independent of spa volume).
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    Re: Ok, this must be Rocket Science.....HELP!!!

    Chem Geek.....THANK YOU! I have already ordered the K-2006...it will probably be here Monday or Tuesday, so when I get back in town, I will begin the testing regieme. The water is clear....no more green, and I removed the Nature 2 cannister. I will follow your recommendations and I am sure it will be just fine. I will let you know the water testing results when I can do it next Saturday.

    Thanks again....margee

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    Re: Ok, this must be Rocket Science.....HELP!!!

    Chem Geek...forgot to answer one of the questions.....yes, it has an Ozonator.

    Thanks...margee

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    Re: Ok, this must be Rocket Science.....HELP!!!

    OK, with an ozonator you may find that your daily chlorine demand with no bather load is higher, perhaps 50% per day, while the chlorine demand when you use the tub might be half of the amounts I gave (those person-hour amounts of chlorine to add). Since we don't know how strong your ozonator is, you'll just have to measure the chlorine level when you use and and are not using the tub to get a feel for this. Again, the goal is to add enough chlorine after your soak such that you have 1-2 ppm FC at the start of your next soak, assuming that's the next day. If you don't soak every day, then you just need to make sure there is some FC at all times.
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    Re: Ok, this must be Rocket Science.....HELP!!!

    Hello everyone: well, other than my post ending up on the other site, under a different name, I might add, things are going fairly well. I am testing the water...boy, is the Taylor kit complicated or what!!! Adding the water until the dot is no longer visible at the bottom for the CYA??? It took me a few times until I realized what that meant! Hey, it has been 40 something years since I have been in a chemistry lab. We are going to drain the tub partially this weekend because the CYA is too high; and, I think I added the DIchlor for too long before switching to the bleach. A question: will using the bleach mess up the warranty? Or do I just not ever tell anyone?? The only issue we have had...the MP3 speakers are blown and we are waiting for the replacement subwoofer. I love, love, love having the music ( or the Rangers baaseball games)...didn't think I would, but it is very nice. They are fairly sure that the speakers were damaged in transport. Otherwise, I love the new spa. Am wishing that my job didn't send me traveling all over the country every other week....bahabahabah. I know I am lucky to be doing what I love in nursing. Take care..................

  11. Back To Top    #11

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    Re: Ok, this must be Rocket Science.....HELP!!!

    If the CYA is only somewhat high -- say 50 ppm or even 60 ppm -- I wouldn't worry about it as you can just deal with that on your next refill. As for the bleach, most spa dealers and others will freak out about that, but it's because they only think about what happens if you ONLY use bleach in which case the chlorine would be too strong and would damage hot tub covers faster, smell more, and oxidize your swimsuit and skin faster. Using Dichlor first (or otherwise adding CYA to the water first) keeps the chlorine in check. Hardly anyone knows about or understands the chlorine/CYA relationship -- well, other than the tens of thousands of pool and spa owners on this and some other forums (plus many tens of thousands of unregistered lurkers -- perhaps 100,000 or more in total).

    Note that in the future when you start with around 30-40 ppm CYA from Dichlor, that the CYA level will drop around 5 ppm per month so you'll want to do a day with Dichlor about once a month. If your CYA is higher now, then you don't have to worry about that until your next refill.
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    Re: Ok, this must be Rocket Science.....HELP!!!

    Chem Geek, You say to use Dichlor once a month to add lost CYA. I was understanding that once you used bleach, you can't use Dichlor? If so, why could I not use Dichlor to get CYA up rather than putting in a sock to dissolve. I do not even know what Dichlor is or its relationship to bleach. I used bromine prior to my SWG, and only used bleach with is until I dded the CYA crystals via the sock in the return try area. I have never used or sen dichlor. Can you explain it and it relationship with 6% bleach? Thanks.
    Barrier Reef Pacific1-Pacific color 37'9" X 14'1" fiberglass IG ~ 17,500 gallons, FHPM1.0-2 Jandy FloPro pump, Jandy Aquapure 1400 SWG, Waterco Multicyclone 16 pre filter, Jandy CV580 filter, 3 PAL-2000 RU LED lights, 1 skimmer, 2 main drains, 3 returns, 2" rigid pvc suction and return plumbing, BBB method, TF100 Kit

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    Re: Ok, this must be Rocket Science.....HELP!!!

    You CAN use Dichlor initially to add CYA to the water and that's why it's called the Dichlor-then-bleach method. However, we went through the options with you earlier and you decided to try the CYA-in-a-sock method because IF it dissolved quickly then you'd get CYA in to your spa faster. Well, it turns out it didn't dissolve that quickly so using Dichlor at first would probably work out just fine. Dichlor is also known as "chlorinating granules" and has the ingredient "sodium dichloro-s-traiazine" aka "sodium dichloroisocyanurate" and adds both chlorine and CYA. Since I assume you already have some pure CYA left, you can use a very small amount of it to add once a month (5 ppm CYA in 350 gallons would be about 1-1/2 teaspoons of pure CYA or 2-1/2 teaspoons of Dichlor). Either way (pure CYA or Dichlor) will add CYA to the water.
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    Re: Ok, this must be Rocket Science.....HELP!!!

    Thanks so much....you are able to'splain it so even I understand!!!! margeetx

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    Re: Ok, this must be Rocket Science.....HELP!!!

    Chem Geek, off topic but I have a question. Can Baking Soda go bad after being open a month or so? I have added a few ounces and it does not seem to move my TA at all. Sitting at 50 even after adding 1.5 ounces two days in a row. (3 OZ total) Curious as if it can lose it power? 395 gallon tub so it should have done something I would think.
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  16. Back To Top    #16

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    Re: Ok, this must be Rocket Science.....HELP!!!

    3 ounces (6 tablespoons) in 395 gallons should raise the TA by around 34 ppm so should definitely be noticeable. If you had net acidic sources of chlorine (Dichlor) or bromine (BCDMH or DBDMH tabs) or used non-chlorine shock (MPS) then these would be all net acidic, but would still take time to lower the TA. Baking soda shouldn't go bad and certainly not in a month. I assume you waited for it to mix before measuring again, though usually in a spa that doesn't take very long (with jets, probably within 5 minutes or so; with just circulation, perhaps 15 minutes or so).
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  17. Back To Top    #17

    Re: Ok, this must be Rocket Science.....HELP!!!

    Yes, I waited overnight to test on both occasions. I am going to get new reagents tomorrow to be certain I am getting good results prior to doing any other adding of Baking Soda. The last test I did used the very last drop of acid, so I want to refill and retest. Just wanted to be sure the Baking Soda was good. Thanks again Chem Geek. I will post reults after I retest tomorrow.
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