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Thread: the process of adjusting TA

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    the process of adjusting TA

    Okay, I know that adjusting TA is a process but I have a few questions.

    My TA was at 180. I added 1.5 bottles of MA, an hour later, the kids got in and splashed the heck out of the water for an afternoon.
    Tested. TA had dropped to 160. Repeated process again and the TA lowered to 150. Last night, I added another 1.5 gallons of MA which brought my TA to 130. My pH is 6.8.
    Here are my many questions.

    1. Do I HAVE to aerate to raise the pH to an acceptable level before I add more MA?
    2. Can I just add more MA tomorrow to lower the TA again?
    3. I know that the MA lowers the pH. Is the fear that the pH will get dangerously low and that is why it is a process?

    At this rate, I will have to add MA and aerate once or twice more.

    Again, thanks to everyone on this site!

    theresa
    Theresa and/or Gary

    Complete DIY: 20x40' rectangle. Resin walls, vinyl lined. 33000 gallons. Full width steps. 8' deep. Diving board, slide. Hayward pro series super pump, sand filter. Raypack 336K BTU heater. Main drain, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, 2 amerilite lights with quick change lens Aquamatic auto cover and a partridge in a pear tree.
    Breaking our backs in the hopes that one of our six kids will care for us when we are old ;)

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    Re: the process of adjusting TA

    You need to get your pH back up before lowering again. You need tobe careful since your test is at its limit at 6.8, and you can't really evaluate your TA change unless you measure at the same pH.
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    Re: the process of adjusting TA

    1) Yes. You never want the PH going down to 6.8, let alone lower.
    2) That depends on what your PH does in the mean time. Your PH is already too low and if you lower it further you will only make that worse.
    3) Exactly. Your PH is already dangerously low.
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    Re: the process of adjusting TA

    thanks for the immediate response. Now I am nervous about how much I lowed the pH. Should I just sleep peacefully through the night and start the deck jets and slide fountain in the morning, or should I be totally freaked out and swim and splash through the night? In hindsight, I think the constant use of the deck jets and slide, and average of 8 kids per day splashing around for six hours was making the pH rise. That is why I was hoping to lower the TA in the 1st place.

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    Theresa and/or Gary

    Complete DIY: 20x40' rectangle. Resin walls, vinyl lined. 33000 gallons. Full width steps. 8' deep. Diving board, slide. Hayward pro series super pump, sand filter. Raypack 336K BTU heater. Main drain, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, 2 amerilite lights with quick change lens Aquamatic auto cover and a partridge in a pear tree.
    Breaking our backs in the hopes that one of our six kids will care for us when we are old ;)

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    Re: the process of adjusting TA

    Don't freak out. With the amount of acid you added, your pH isn't much lower than 6.8 and by now is probably higher. At a low pH, the carbon dioxide outgassing occurs faster. For aeration, you can point your returns upwards and run the pump on high. That's what I do when I want to aerate and it works reasonably well. Probably not as good as a bunch of kids, but I can have it running like that all day and night if I want to.
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    Re: the process of adjusting TA

    Should I just sleep peacefully through the night and start the deck jets and slide fountain in the morning, or should I be totally freaked out and swim and splash through the night?
    Of course, sleep peacefully is the answer but that is a funny mental picture of you doing laps and the splash dance all night to raise pH.

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    Re: the process of adjusting TA

    slept like a baby. now i'm refreshed and ready to play in the pool like a kid! thanks for making this site available.
    Theresa and/or Gary

    Complete DIY: 20x40' rectangle. Resin walls, vinyl lined. 33000 gallons. Full width steps. 8' deep. Diving board, slide. Hayward pro series super pump, sand filter. Raypack 336K BTU heater. Main drain, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, 2 amerilite lights with quick change lens Aquamatic auto cover and a partridge in a pear tree.
    Breaking our backs in the hopes that one of our six kids will care for us when we are old ;)

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    Re: the process of adjusting TA

    You guys should have told them to splash around violently all night! The neighbors would have gotten a kick out of it anyway!
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    Re: the process of adjusting TA

    Ha! it would have been the straw that broke the camels back. we are a rowdy bunch ALL day.
    Theresa and/or Gary

    Complete DIY: 20x40' rectangle. Resin walls, vinyl lined. 33000 gallons. Full width steps. 8' deep. Diving board, slide. Hayward pro series super pump, sand filter. Raypack 336K BTU heater. Main drain, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, 2 amerilite lights with quick change lens Aquamatic auto cover and a partridge in a pear tree.
    Breaking our backs in the hopes that one of our six kids will care for us when we are old ;)

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    Re: the process of adjusting TA

    How was the pH this morning?
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    Re: the process of adjusting TA

    still 6.8. the kids are splashing, four deck jets are on and the slide water is running. Hopefully I'll see some change today.
    Theresa and/or Gary

    Complete DIY: 20x40' rectangle. Resin walls, vinyl lined. 33000 gallons. Full width steps. 8' deep. Diving board, slide. Hayward pro series super pump, sand filter. Raypack 336K BTU heater. Main drain, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, 2 amerilite lights with quick change lens Aquamatic auto cover and a partridge in a pear tree.
    Breaking our backs in the hopes that one of our six kids will care for us when we are old ;)

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    Re: the process of adjusting TA

    I'd go ahead and add some borax then. Not good to have it that low for long and since it has been that way overnight, I'd be getting a bit nervous.
    ~~ Allison ~~
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    Re: the process of adjusting TA

    Hillbilly Aeration. Yes, they are for hire.

    Theresa and/or Gary

    Complete DIY: 20x40' rectangle. Resin walls, vinyl lined. 33000 gallons. Full width steps. 8' deep. Diving board, slide. Hayward pro series super pump, sand filter. Raypack 336K BTU heater. Main drain, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, 2 amerilite lights with quick change lens Aquamatic auto cover and a partridge in a pear tree.
    Breaking our backs in the hopes that one of our six kids will care for us when we are old ;)

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    Re: the process of adjusting TA

    The cause for alarm with the low pH is that it can start to eat the metals in your pool. Things like pool lights, metal parts in your filter, ladders, your pump etc. can quickly ca-rode and then you have an issue for eternity. If you want to see what happens stick a piece of metal into the muratic acid and see what happens.

    This is actually a method for quickly aging metals in applications like restorations etc. Just remember next time to add enough to get pH to 7.2 then aerate to raise to 7.8, then repeat the process until you are at the desired TA.
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    Re: the process of adjusting TA

    If you started with a pH of 7.5 and TA of 180 and added 1.5 gallons of full-strength Muriatic Acid (31.45% Hydrochloric Acid) three times (so 4.5 gallons total), then the TA would drop to 112 ppm and the pH to 6.4 if there were no carbon dioxide outgassing. I would bet that your kids splashing today gets the pH at least up to 7.0. If it doesn't, then add some Borax to move it up further. As you've noted, if the pH isn't moving up with kids splashing and aeration from the water slide, then your current TA may be good enough.
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    Re: the process of adjusting TA

    I actually started with pH of 8.0 I'm really hoping the aeration helps.
    Theresa and/or Gary

    Complete DIY: 20x40' rectangle. Resin walls, vinyl lined. 33000 gallons. Full width steps. 8' deep. Diving board, slide. Hayward pro series super pump, sand filter. Raypack 336K BTU heater. Main drain, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, 2 amerilite lights with quick change lens Aquamatic auto cover and a partridge in a pear tree.
    Breaking our backs in the hopes that one of our six kids will care for us when we are old ;)

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    Re: the process of adjusting TA

    I just tested again and here are the results.

    pH still 6.8
    tA 130

    I added 16 oz of borax that i had laying around. I know that it will only raise pH .05 I would have to go to the store if I need more. EXACTLY what/ or how much should I do next? Out of panic, I took the ladder up. The lights are gonna have to fend for themselves.
    Theresa and/or Gary

    Complete DIY: 20x40' rectangle. Resin walls, vinyl lined. 33000 gallons. Full width steps. 8' deep. Diving board, slide. Hayward pro series super pump, sand filter. Raypack 336K BTU heater. Main drain, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, 2 amerilite lights with quick change lens Aquamatic auto cover and a partridge in a pear tree.
    Breaking our backs in the hopes that one of our six kids will care for us when we are old ;)

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    Re: the process of adjusting TA

    Quote Originally Posted by 8corneflakes
    I just tested again and here are the results.

    pH still 6.8
    tA 130

    I added 16 oz of borax that i had laying around. EXACTLY what/ or how much should I do next?
    Well, circ for an hour and retest. If you got to 7pH, good. If not, add more borax and repeat.

    ETA: Only added 16 ozs? Is that a typo?
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    Re: the process of adjusting TA

    see my edit above. it's all I had on hand. kids used it to make play-doh or something messy and useless.
    Theresa and/or Gary

    Complete DIY: 20x40' rectangle. Resin walls, vinyl lined. 33000 gallons. Full width steps. 8' deep. Diving board, slide. Hayward pro series super pump, sand filter. Raypack 336K BTU heater. Main drain, 2 skimmers, 3 returns, 2 amerilite lights with quick change lens Aquamatic auto cover and a partridge in a pear tree.
    Breaking our backs in the hopes that one of our six kids will care for us when we are old ;)

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    Re: the process of adjusting TA

    Quote Originally Posted by 8corneflakes
    see my edit above. it's all I had on hand. kids used it to make play-doh or something messy and useless.
    So the answer is that you need more borax. At least 385 more oz and probably more because your pH could be even lower than 6.8. I think a trip to the store is a better option than causing damage to the pool equipment. I would get at least 6 boxes. Even if you don't use them all, you will have them on hand for the future.
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