Pretty extreme results?

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Dazed_and_confused

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Jun 11, 2012
12
Hi there.

I bought a house with a pool in a few years ago. I must admit to being a bit lassez-faire with the chemical regime until recently when it went kinda green so now I'm trying to take it more seriously. But - I've been struggling recently to get FC anything above zero and to get the pH under control. I just bought a new Palintest kit and tested it and the results seem pretty extreme...any suggestions?

Firstly - TA is 220 mg/l, CA is 380mg/l and pH refuses to rise above 6.8. That pH sounds low to me although interestingly according to the "Balanced Water Index" calculation in my Palintest kit, that pH is about as expected if you combine it with the TA and CA. Any thoughts? I do live in an extremely hard water area.

Secondly - My FC is zero. Plain zero. However much shock I add to it, I can't get it above zero! After reading your excellent forum I think maybe it's because I've been using Triclor regularly and my CYA is too high. Tested it today and yes, CYA is 120. Do I have any alternative to draining half the pool away and refilling..?

I appreciate any advice.

To complete the details:

- Capacity is 6300 US Gallons (24050 Litres)
- Sand Filter
- In Ground
- Plaster (Tiled)
- Flow Rate - No Idea!
- Age: About ten years, I think. Certainly more than six.

Many thanks.
 
Thanks for such a quickly reply. I'm going to struggle to refill the pool right away as we're under a hosepipe ban because of the dry weather :(

Do you think it's so out of whack as to be unhygenic, or will I be OK as long as I keep shocking it every few days?
 
Welcome to tfp, Dazed_and_confused :wave:

To clean up the algae, you will need quite high chlorine levels for that cya level...28 mg/L (from poolcalculator.com and 120 ppm cya). It is possible to clean it up, but it will be much harder than if you can drain half the pool and refill. I think this is unlikely, but any chance there is a Reverse Osmosis service where you live (where is that)?

Take a look at this post to learn about clearing your pool: http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-school/defeating_algae
 
I should have said...I'm in the UK, Suffolk. The pool actually looks pretty good right now, I've been hitting it hard with shock and algaecide so it's a nice shiny blue and clear as a bell. I'm just worried that with the pH so low I might be damaging the pool and with not being able to maintain any FC I guess it's not ideal..!

I will certainly drain the pool once the ban on hosepipes is lifted, but that could be a while if it's a long hot summer. Mind you, it's chucking down with rain now so fingers crossed :)
 
Dazed_and_confused said:
I've been hitting it hard with shock and algaecide so it's a nice shiny blue and clear as a bell.
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What are you using for the "shock" (note: on tfp shock is a process and not a name of a product) :-D

If your FC contines to go to 0 quickly after adding chlorine, you have organics using it up and you need to follow the shocking process: http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-school/shocking_your_pool to be most effective.

Dazed_and_confused said:
I'm just worried that with the pH so low I might be damaging the pool and with not being able to maintain any FC I guess it's not ideal..!
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Can you get borax over there? That is the best way to raise ph.
 
Hi,

For "shock", I've been using Blue Horizons "Granular Shock" which is non-stabilised Calcium Hypochlorite. 300g per treatment once every few days. Plus Blue Horizons Algaecide. I will follow your shocking process, I guess I should find come 6% bleach.

I've also been using Blue Horizons ph Increasing granules to address the pH. I've been religiously trying to get it up above 7.2 but the Palintest kit gave me pause when it's "Water Balance Indicator" suggested that 6.8 was OK given the very high CA and TA levels...? As you say though, possibly 6.8 is the lowest the kit can indicate...
 
Dazed_and_confused said:
For "shock", I've been using Blue Horizons "Granular Shock" which is non-stabilised Calcium Hypochlorite. 300g per treatment once every few days.
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Cal-hypo add calciums which raise the CH (Calcium Hardness) level which can lead to scaling on a plaster pool. Assuming what you listed for CA is CH (Calcium Hardness), I would not add more cal-hypo with your 380 mg/L, our recommended rang is 250-350 for plaster pools.

Do you know how your cya level got so high...did you previously use trichlor or dichlor extensively?

Dazed_and_confused said:
Plus Blue Horizons Algaecide.
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Although algaecides can help prevent algae (though some add things to your pool you may not want), they are not nearly as effective in clearing algae as Chlorine is.

Dazed_and_confused said:
I will follow your shocking process, I guess I should find come 6% bleach.
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Or Liquid chlorine, which is just strong bleach.

Dazed_and_confused said:
I've also been using Blue Horizons ph Increasing granules to address the pH. I've been religiously trying to get it up above 7.2 but the Palintest kit gave me pause when it's "Water Balance Indicator" suggested that 6.8 was OK given the very high CA and TA levels...? As you say though, possibly 6.8 is the lowest the kit can indicate...
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I am not familiar with how the palentest works, but most phenel red titration ph tests can not measure below 6.8. I did look at there site, and it seems that kit I looked at had a range of 6.8-8.4 for ph. That ph increaser should be fine for upping ph. Get it to about 7.2 ppm (since you TA most likely will cause it to continue to rise over time).

By the way, could you put your pool and equipment information in your signature? It helps us be more efficient when we look at your posts.
 
Thanks. To your points, yes for the last few years I've been using Triclor which I guess explains the CYA. Having found your forum and all your excellent advice I think I'll try liquid chlorine and see how I go with that. Will keep going with the pH increaser and see if I can get that stable.

Now just need to pray for rain so that they let me use my hosepipe to fill the pool if I drain it.... :)
 
I hoping too that your water restrictions are lifted soon. You can clear a pool with high cya, it just takes longer, and you will need a lot of liquid chlorine/bleach. Do you do a drain at the end of the season to winterize your pool?

By the way, on this side of the pond, liquid chlorine is typically 12.5% or 10% sodium hypochlorite, where bleach is typically 6% sodium hypochlorite. I can usually get liquid chlorine cheaper (per ounce of sodium hypochlorite) than I can get bleach...so LC is what I use most.
 

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I'll check out bleach vs liquid chlorine. My local pool store only stocks granules so I'll go farther afield :)

The pool is indoors so we run it all yr round, so it's not been drained in a long time but I vacuum to Waste and top it up every so often.
 
Dazed_and_confused said:
d

Post Posted: June 12th, 2012, 3:49 pm
I'll check out bleach vs liquid chlorine. My local pool store only stocks granules so I'll go farther afield :)

The pool is indoors so we run it all yr round, so it's not been drained in a long time but I vacuum to Waste and top it up every so often.
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I'm glad you mentioned that it is an indoor pool. Is the sun still able to reach some/most of the pool surface? I ask because running an indoor pool with high cya might bring unique problems (I am not sure, but I will do some searching). Do you use any other oxidizer in the pool such as MPS (Potassium Monopersulfate)?
 
Very interesting link, thanks. Looks like a similar situation, albeit a much larger pool! Interesting the reference to chloramines, I had detected the smell occassionally.

I think my plan will be to drain and refill, try to manage it without stabilised chlorine products and see how we go.

I really appreciate all your help.
 
*****UPDATE*****

So I've drained half my pool water and re-filled, 48 hours of heating and we're good to go.

Latest measurement shows the CYA concentration has halved which is guess is as expected! TA hasn't dropped much and Calcium levels are down a bit but have not halved but again I suspect that is due to the hard fill water.

Full results:

- TA 220
- CH 300
- CYA 60
- pH 6.8
- FC still zero

The hunt is on for 6% bleach, doesn't seem to be easy to find in the UK so I'll trawl the forums and see if anyone knows where to get it.
 
Hmm.

Tried ASDA thin bleach. Added 8 llitres which, with CYA of 60, ought to give me a good level of free chlorine... But after a couple of hours, barely a jot (maybe 0.5) So either that bleach is weaker than weak or there is something else going on.

Might have to resort to the cal-hypo whilst I try to source some decent liquid bleach because something must be eating my chlorine so I guess I need to shock...
 
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