Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: Pretty extreme results?

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Pretty extreme results?

    Hi there.

    I bought a house with a pool in a few years ago. I must admit to being a bit lassez-faire with the chemical regime until recently when it went kinda green so now I'm trying to take it more seriously. But - I've been struggling recently to get FC anything above zero and to get the pH under control. I just bought a new Palintest kit and tested it and the results seem pretty extreme...any suggestions?

    Firstly - TA is 220 mg/l, CA is 380mg/l and pH refuses to rise above 6.8. That pH sounds low to me although interestingly according to the "Balanced Water Index" calculation in my Palintest kit, that pH is about as expected if you combine it with the TA and CA. Any thoughts? I do live in an extremely hard water area.

    Secondly - My FC is zero. Plain zero. However much shock I add to it, I can't get it above zero! After reading your excellent forum I think maybe it's because I've been using Triclor regularly and my CYA is too high. Tested it today and yes, CYA is 120. Do I have any alternative to draining half the pool away and refilling..?

    I appreciate any advice.

    To complete the details:

    - Capacity is 6300 US Gallons (24050 Litres)
    - Sand Filter
    - In Ground
    - Plaster (Tiled)
    - Flow Rate - No Idea!
    - Age: About ten years, I think. Certainly more than six.

    Many thanks.
    Indoor pool, Capacity is 6300 US Gallons (24050 Litres), Sand Filter (Tagelus TA-40), In Ground, Plaster (Tiled), Flow Rate - No Idea!, About ten years old

  2. Back To Top    #2
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,879

    Re: Pretty extreme results?

    Welcome to TFP!

    Replacing half of your water is a really good place to start.

    The PH probably started out much lower and the test simply can't read anything below 6.8.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  3. Back To Top    #3

    Re: Pretty extreme results?

    Thanks for such a quickly reply. I'm going to struggle to refill the pool right away as we're under a hosepipe ban because of the dry weather

    Do you think it's so out of whack as to be unhygenic, or will I be OK as long as I keep shocking it every few days?
    Indoor pool, Capacity is 6300 US Gallons (24050 Litres), Sand Filter (Tagelus TA-40), In Ground, Plaster (Tiled), Flow Rate - No Idea!, About ten years old

  4. Back To Top    #4
    linen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Twin Cities, MN
    Posts
    8,649

    Re: Pretty extreme results?

    Welcome to tfp, Dazed_and_confused

    To clean up the algae, you will need quite high chlorine levels for that cya level...28 mg/L (from poolcalculator.com and 120 ppm cya). It is possible to clean it up, but it will be much harder than if you can drain half the pool and refill. I think this is unlikely, but any chance there is a Reverse Osmosis service where you live (where is that)?

    Take a look at this post to learn about clearing your pool: http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-...efeating_algae
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

  5. Back To Top    #5

    Re: Pretty extreme results?

    I should have said...I'm in the UK, Suffolk. The pool actually looks pretty good right now, I've been hitting it hard with shock and algaecide so it's a nice shiny blue and clear as a bell. I'm just worried that with the pH so low I might be damaging the pool and with not being able to maintain any FC I guess it's not ideal..!

    I will certainly drain the pool once the ban on hosepipes is lifted, but that could be a while if it's a long hot summer. Mind you, it's chucking down with rain now so fingers crossed
    Indoor pool, Capacity is 6300 US Gallons (24050 Litres), Sand Filter (Tagelus TA-40), In Ground, Plaster (Tiled), Flow Rate - No Idea!, About ten years old

  6. Back To Top    #6
    linen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Twin Cities, MN
    Posts
    8,649

    Re: Pretty extreme results?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dazed_and_confused
    I've been hitting it hard with shock and algaecide so it's a nice shiny blue and clear as a bell.
    What are you using for the "shock" (note: on tfp shock is a process and not a name of a product)

    If your FC contines to go to 0 quickly after adding chlorine, you have organics using it up and you need to follow the shocking process: http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-...king_your_pool to be most effective.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dazed_and_confused
    I'm just worried that with the pH so low I might be damaging the pool and with not being able to maintain any FC I guess it's not ideal..!
    Can you get borax over there? That is the best way to raise ph.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

  7. Back To Top    #7

    Re: Pretty extreme results?

    Hi,

    For "shock", I've been using Blue Horizons "Granular Shock" which is non-stabilised Calcium Hypochlorite. 300g per treatment once every few days. Plus Blue Horizons Algaecide. I will follow your shocking process, I guess I should find come 6% bleach.

    I've also been using Blue Horizons ph Increasing granules to address the pH. I've been religiously trying to get it up above 7.2 but the Palintest kit gave me pause when it's "Water Balance Indicator" suggested that 6.8 was OK given the very high CA and TA levels...? As you say though, possibly 6.8 is the lowest the kit can indicate...
    Indoor pool, Capacity is 6300 US Gallons (24050 Litres), Sand Filter (Tagelus TA-40), In Ground, Plaster (Tiled), Flow Rate - No Idea!, About ten years old

  8. Back To Top    #8
    linen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Twin Cities, MN
    Posts
    8,649

    Re: Pretty extreme results?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dazed_and_confused
    For "shock", I've been using Blue Horizons "Granular Shock" which is non-stabilised Calcium Hypochlorite. 300g per treatment once every few days.
    Cal-hypo add calciums which raise the CH (Calcium Hardness) level which can lead to scaling on a plaster pool. Assuming what you listed for CA is CH (Calcium Hardness), I would not add more cal-hypo with your 380 mg/L, our recommended rang is 250-350 for plaster pools.

    Do you know how your cya level got so high...did you previously use trichlor or dichlor extensively?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dazed_and_confused
    Plus Blue Horizons Algaecide.
    Although algaecides can help prevent algae (though some add things to your pool you may not want), they are not nearly as effective in clearing algae as Chlorine is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dazed_and_confused
    I will follow your shocking process, I guess I should find come 6% bleach.
    Or Liquid chlorine, which is just strong bleach.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dazed_and_confused
    I've also been using Blue Horizons ph Increasing granules to address the pH. I've been religiously trying to get it up above 7.2 but the Palintest kit gave me pause when it's "Water Balance Indicator" suggested that 6.8 was OK given the very high CA and TA levels...? As you say though, possibly 6.8 is the lowest the kit can indicate...
    I am not familiar with how the palentest works, but most phenel red titration ph tests can not measure below 6.8. I did look at there site, and it seems that kit I looked at had a range of 6.8-8.4 for ph. That ph increaser should be fine for upping ph. Get it to about 7.2 ppm (since you TA most likely will cause it to continue to rise over time).

    By the way, could you put your pool and equipment information in your signature? It helps us be more efficient when we look at your posts.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

  9. Back To Top    #9

    Re: Pretty extreme results?

    Thanks. To your points, yes for the last few years I've been using Triclor which I guess explains the CYA. Having found your forum and all your excellent advice I think I'll try liquid chlorine and see how I go with that. Will keep going with the pH increaser and see if I can get that stable.

    Now just need to pray for rain so that they let me use my hosepipe to fill the pool if I drain it....
    Indoor pool, Capacity is 6300 US Gallons (24050 Litres), Sand Filter (Tagelus TA-40), In Ground, Plaster (Tiled), Flow Rate - No Idea!, About ten years old

  10. Back To Top    #10
    linen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Twin Cities, MN
    Posts
    8,649

    Re: Pretty extreme results?

    I hoping too that your water restrictions are lifted soon. You can clear a pool with high cya, it just takes longer, and you will need a lot of liquid chlorine/bleach. Do you do a drain at the end of the season to winterize your pool?

    By the way, on this side of the pond, liquid chlorine is typically 12.5% or 10% sodium hypochlorite, where bleach is typically 6% sodium hypochlorite. I can usually get liquid chlorine cheaper (per ounce of sodium hypochlorite) than I can get bleach...so LC is what I use most.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Re: Pretty extreme results?

    I'll check out bleach vs liquid chlorine. My local pool store only stocks granules so I'll go farther afield

    The pool is indoors so we run it all yr round, so it's not been drained in a long time but I vacuum to Waste and top it up every so often.
    Indoor pool, Capacity is 6300 US Gallons (24050 Litres), Sand Filter (Tagelus TA-40), In Ground, Plaster (Tiled), Flow Rate - No Idea!, About ten years old

  12. Back To Top    #12
    linen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Twin Cities, MN
    Posts
    8,649

    Re: Pretty extreme results?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dazed_and_confused
    d

    Post Posted: June 12th, 2012, 3:49 pm
    I'll check out bleach vs liquid chlorine. My local pool store only stocks granules so I'll go farther afield

    The pool is indoors so we run it all yr round, so it's not been drained in a long time but I vacuum to Waste and top it up every so often.
    I'm glad you mentioned that it is an indoor pool. Is the sun still able to reach some/most of the pool surface? I ask because running an indoor pool with high cya might bring unique problems (I am not sure, but I will do some searching). Do you use any other oxidizer in the pool such as MPS (Potassium Monopersulfate)?
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

  13. Back To Top    #13

    Re: Pretty extreme results?

    I haven't added anything else beyond triclor, cal-hypo and ph increaser... One side of the room is all glass doors so it gets plenty of sunshine.
    Indoor pool, Capacity is 6300 US Gallons (24050 Litres), Sand Filter (Tagelus TA-40), In Ground, Plaster (Tiled), Flow Rate - No Idea!, About ten years old

  14. Back To Top    #14
    linen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Twin Cities, MN
    Posts
    8,649

    Re: Pretty extreme results?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dazed_and_confused
    One side of the room is all glass doors so it gets plenty of sunshine.
    How much of the pool for how long? I am fairly certain that glass blocks some of the suns uv light.

    Do you have any other equipment such as a UV system?

    I did find this thread that was interesting: http://www.troublefreepool.com/indoo...3.html#p258635
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

  15. Back To Top    #15

    Re: Pretty extreme results?

    Very interesting link, thanks. Looks like a similar situation, albeit a much larger pool! Interesting the reference to chloramines, I had detected the smell occassionally.

    I think my plan will be to drain and refill, try to manage it without stabilised chlorine products and see how we go.

    I really appreciate all your help.
    Indoor pool, Capacity is 6300 US Gallons (24050 Litres), Sand Filter (Tagelus TA-40), In Ground, Plaster (Tiled), Flow Rate - No Idea!, About ten years old

  16. Back To Top    #16

    Re: Pretty extreme results?

    Good news! Hosepipe ban lifted today! So a-draining I do go.
    Indoor pool, Capacity is 6300 US Gallons (24050 Litres), Sand Filter (Tagelus TA-40), In Ground, Plaster (Tiled), Flow Rate - No Idea!, About ten years old

  17. Back To Top    #17

    Re: Pretty extreme results?

    *****UPDATE*****

    So I've drained half my pool water and re-filled, 48 hours of heating and we're good to go.

    Latest measurement shows the CYA concentration has halved which is guess is as expected! TA hasn't dropped much and Calcium levels are down a bit but have not halved but again I suspect that is due to the hard fill water.

    Full results:

    - TA 220
    - CH 300
    - CYA 60
    - pH 6.8
    - FC still zero

    The hunt is on for 6% bleach, doesn't seem to be easy to find in the UK so I'll trawl the forums and see if anyone knows where to get it.
    Indoor pool, Capacity is 6300 US Gallons (24050 Litres), Sand Filter (Tagelus TA-40), In Ground, Plaster (Tiled), Flow Rate - No Idea!, About ten years old

  18. Back To Top    #18
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    SouthWest Alabama
    Posts
    22,347

    Re: Pretty extreme results?

    Thin bleach is usually 5% and you can use the Pool Calc and adjust the percentage so you can use it.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

  19. Back To Top    #19

    Re: Pretty extreme results?

    Hmm.

    Tried ASDA thin bleach. Added 8 llitres which, with CYA of 60, ought to give me a good level of free chlorine... But after a couple of hours, barely a jot (maybe 0.5) So either that bleach is weaker than weak or there is something else going on.

    Might have to resort to the cal-hypo whilst I try to source some decent liquid bleach because something must be eating my chlorine so I guess I need to shock...
    Indoor pool, Capacity is 6300 US Gallons (24050 Litres), Sand Filter (Tagelus TA-40), In Ground, Plaster (Tiled), Flow Rate - No Idea!, About ten years old

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •