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Thread: High PH after adding Borax and Swimming.

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    High PH after adding Borax and Swimming.

    Well I thought I had this pool chemical thing licked but I'm a little confused.
    My current measurements.

    FC 1.5
    CYA 25
    TA 110
    PH 8.2+

    Yesterday AM my measurements were
    FC .5
    CYA 25
    TA 70
    PH 6.8

    I added about 8 ounces of Trichlor yesterday to bring up the chlorine (which was at .5 in the am yesterday) and the CYA.
    Chlorine dropped(very sunny all day), so it would appear I need to bring my CYA higher)
    I also added enough baking soda(in combination with the borax) to bring up the TA to 110-120 (which worked)
    I also added borax to bring up the PH which was around 6.8--I used the pool calculator and added enough to bring it up to 7.6 (or so I thought).
    We swam all day and now it seems its at 8.2+. Im guessing maybe the kids (and myself) swimming in the pool "aerated" the pool and brought up the PH ?
    Is it still safe to swim with this high of a PH ?
    21' All Steel AGP with Resin caps, Heyward S244T Sand Filter, Heyward 1HP 2 speed pump

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    Re: High PH after adding Borax and Swimming.

    anyone ?
    21' All Steel AGP with Resin caps, Heyward S244T Sand Filter, Heyward 1HP 2 speed pump

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    steinholder's Avatar
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    Re: High PH after adding Borax and Swimming.

    BORAX and baking soda both raise the pH. Maybe you just miscalulated their combined effect + aeration?
    22'x52" AG Ultra Frame Intex - 12,500 gal (47K liter)
    Manual Liquid Chlorine - 1HP 100# Hayward sand filter
    Lots of sun, trees, pollen & wind - 50ppm Borates
    4nd season grateful TFP fan

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: High PH after adding Borax and Swimming.

    I gotta agree with Steinholder, adding both and raising the TA added with swimming and splashing led to the pH raising.

    I'd lower the pH to the mid 7's now. You can swim almost immediately after adding the acid.

    Why did you want the TA higher than 70?
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: High PH after adding Borax and Swimming.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bama Rambler
    I gotta agree with Steinholder, adding both and raising the TA added with swimming and splashing led to the pH raising.

    I'd lower the pH to the mid 7's now. You can swim almost immediately after adding the acid.

    Why did you want the TA higher than 70?
    From the pool calculator page..
    "The ideal TA level depends on several factors. If you are using acidic chlorine sources, such as trichlor or dichlor, keep TA on the high side, perhaps between 100 and 120."
    so I thought 110-120 would be fine being I add in trichlor here and there.

    As far as Borax and baking soda raising PH together--the amount that the PH gets raised by baking soda is so minimal its almost not worth mentioning.
    For example--80 oz of baking soda only raises PH by .07 .

    Do you have to buy muriatic acid form a pool store ?
    21' All Steel AGP with Resin caps, Heyward S244T Sand Filter, Heyward 1HP 2 speed pump

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: High PH after adding Borax and Swimming.

    Quote Originally Posted by gdog2004
    From the pool calculator page..
    "The ideal TA level depends on several factors. If you are using acidic chlorine sources, such as trichlor or dichlor, keep TA on the high side, perhaps between 100 and 120."
    so I thought 110-120 would be fine being I add in trichlor here and there.

    As far as Borax and baking soda raising PH together--the amount that the PH gets raised by baking soda is so minimal its almost not worth mentioning.
    For example--80 oz of baking soda only raises PH by .07 .

    Do you have to buy muriatic acid form a pool store ?
    Yes, for trichlor only users that range typically works. If you just use trichlor occasionally then the 70-90 ppm recommendation would be better for you. It could be that your pool would benefit from lower TA, especially if you have a lot of swimmers/splashing regularly that raise ph.

    Quote Originally Posted by gdog2004
    Do you have to buy muriatic acid form a pool store ?
    I buy it from home centers and hardware stores. Look for the 20 baume which should be 31.45%.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: High PH after adding Borax and Swimming.

    Your problem was the combination of things.

    If you just add Trichlor once in awhile you probably don't need to have your TA higher. You should let it settle where it tends to keep the pH stable as long as it's not too high or too low.

    You can buy muriatic acid where ever you can find it. Just make sure of the strength and that it's not the safe version.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
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    Re: High PH after adding Borax and Swimming.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bama Rambler
    Your problem was the combination of things.

    If you just add Trichlor once in awhile you probably don't need to have your TA higher. You should let it settle where it tends to keep the pH stable as long as it's not too high or too low.

    You can buy muriatic acid where ever you can find it. Just make sure of the strength and that it's not the safe version.
    UGH. I bought the stronger version. Yikes--I semi inhaled this stuff a bit--strong. Held breath after that.
    I accidentally added 80 oz of muriatic acid(read calculator wrong). Which of course would bring PH down 1.9 !! So now I am probably at 6.3 or so. Going to buy more borax to bring back up. Sigh.
    21' All Steel AGP with Resin caps, Heyward S244T Sand Filter, Heyward 1HP 2 speed pump

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    steinholder's Avatar
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    Re: High PH after adding Borax and Swimming.

    Yep, now is a great time to enjoy the benefits of Borates...
    22'x52" AG Ultra Frame Intex - 12,500 gal (47K liter)
    Manual Liquid Chlorine - 1HP 100# Hayward sand filter
    Lots of sun, trees, pollen & wind - 50ppm Borates
    4nd season grateful TFP fan

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: High PH after adding Borax and Swimming.

    Quote Originally Posted by gdog2004
    I accidentally added 80 oz of muriatic acid(read calculator wrong). Which of course would bring PH down 1.9 !! So now I am probably at 6.3 or so. Going to buy more borax to bring back up. Sigh.
    It probably did not go that low. Good chance your 8.2+ starting ph was actually higher (since the test indicates 8.2 for anything higher than that). Let it go an hour with the pump running then test ph again and see where your at.

    Quote Originally Posted by steinholder
    Yep, now is a great time to enjoy the benefits of Borates...
    @steinholder. It is my understanding that it is not until a pool gets over 30 ppm borate concentration where the algaestatic and buffering properties of borates start to be effective/significant.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: High PH after adding Borax and Swimming.

    Quote Originally Posted by gdog2004
    UGH. I bought the stronger version. Yikes--I semi inhaled this stuff a bit--strong. Held breath after that.
    Yeah, that'll singe the ole nose hairs!

    Don't worry too much, just retest and add a little borax to get it back to the low 7's.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: High PH after adding Borax and Swimming.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bama Rambler
    Quote Originally Posted by gdog2004
    UGH. I bought the stronger version. Yikes--I semi inhaled this stuff a bit--strong. Held breath after that.
    Yeah, that'll singe the ole nose hairs!

    Don't worry too much, just retest and add a little borax to get it back to the low 7's.
    I added in 24 oz of borax, waited an hour. Lo and behold the PH seems to be around 7.5. Ill see if it holds. Does anything else have an eddect on FC besides sunlight ? I put in enough to bring my FC from 1 to 4 this am--I checked it this afternoon and it was back down to 1. My CYA is about 25.
    So I added in 32 oz of chlorine to get to a FC of 3 and 16 oz of CYA to get the CYA to about 35-37.
    21' All Steel AGP with Resin caps, Heyward S244T Sand Filter, Heyward 1HP 2 speed pump

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: High PH after adding Borax and Swimming.

    Quote Originally Posted by gdog2004
    I added in 24 oz of borax, waited an hour. Lo and behold the PH seems to be around 7.5. Ill see if it holds.
    Playing with poolcalculator, that suggests that you ph was at ~7.3 before the addition of this round of Borax? 7.3 would have been fine with your slightly higher TA.


    Quote Originally Posted by gdog2004
    Does anything else have an eddect on FC besides sunlight ? I put in enough to bring my FC from 1 to 4 this am--I checked it this afternoon and it was back down to 1. My CYA is about 25.
    So I added in 32 oz of chlorine to get to a FC of 3 and 16 oz of CYA to get the CYA to about 35-37.
    Sun, organics (due to stuff falling in pool, swimmers, etc.), temperature, all effect the rate of FC usage. It is typical for ~ 50% drop in FC during the day, yours is a little high, so more cya is good. I wouldn't add more than you just did at this point, but many people find 50 ppm cya to work well protecting chlorine from the sun. Just remember, easy to add cya, but drain/refill to remove.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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