Air in filter basket and filter

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evanwellens

evanwellens

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Jun 9, 2012
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Stony Point, NY
I have an IG pool with Cartridge Filter that is about 10 years old ( I've had it 2) .
It's been pretty reliable until this season. I keep getting air in the filter and pump basket.
I know suction side leak. I've tried shaving cream , Isolating the lines ( each skimmer and main), no luck.
Checked all Orings , they are lubed and sealed, many brand new. Hired a guy , he said I have no suction leak
since no air is viewable through the pre-pump view port ( sorry I don't know the proper name but it houses the
backflow preventer ). Several pool guys later they say there is no problem, but everywhere I read there should
be no air in the filter basket ( and there never used to be ). Pressure is 16. Filters clean, pool clean, chemistry spot on.
If I start it up , bleed air from filter, hour later pressure is 5 and pump basket is very low. No visible
water leaks. I've spent weeks trying to solve this so I can put the thing on auto, now it's got to be primed
every time I start. Odd thing occasionally all works perfectly and runs hours w/o attention, then the next time
it wont. Desperately seeking advice, I've been trying everything I can except replacing all equipment.
 
Welcome to the forum. :lol: As you know, you have a suction side air leak. It is disappointing you pool guy doesn't recognize that. I am a little confused with your terminology.

The pump strainer basket (clear lid on the front part of the pump assembly is the one that begins to show air instead of being completely full of water, right? What is that other pre-pump device? Is it a check valve (I think)? Can you ever see any bubbles in it? Got a pic?
 
Thanks, this problem is driving me nuts. Here's a pict of what I'm talking about.
https://picasaweb.google.com/1158723919 ... 4176164850
others here in case that clarifies things
https://picasaweb.google.com/1158723919 ... oolSystems

It's a window before the filter basket that houses a backflow preventer. I'm not so convinced it's a suction side leak anymore , though that is the majority opinion. I've checked every fitting's orings are fine, isolated each skimmer / main ( leaving me to believe it's not with regards to a particular line. And I did the shaving cream test, no suction evidence. How else does one diagnoss this ?
 
That backflow preventer (which is a good description) is a jandy check valve. Air can only enter the system during operation on the suction side of the system.......water leaks on the pressure side. It's a suction side leak if you have air in the pump strainer basket (and it looks like you do)

Have you tightened and checked the drain plugs on the pump basket? Is the O-ring making a perfect seal? Can you see air passing through the check valve when the pump is running?
 
Re: Air in filter basket and filterHe

Jandy Check valve ahh thanks. Thanks to google I have gotten a sense of what you are saying and I specifically hired a pool guy to find a suction side problem since I checked everything ( I think ) and all seemed ok . He seemed stumped then said it's ok to have air in there , I said it never did before. Even another pool guy I spoke to who I showed picts said the same. Have checked the O-Rings on the Jandy valve and the filter plug ( even gooped them ). No air passes through the check valve which is what the guy I hired said was proof there was no suction leak, and he checked the drain plugs too. Eventually he said the impeller is the issue, which didn't really make sense to me. At that point he wanted to sell/install a new pump. IMHO the pump seems fine , but I haven't taken it apart.... Yet. Not sure if it's worth the effort or should I really get a new pump. If I do it would really be unfortunate if the problem didn't go away and I replaced a perfectly fine pump.
 
Interesting how even people in the business often misdiagnose so many problems. Some are right on the money but many are not.

Well, if there are absolutely no bubbles in the check valve (you must check very closely) then the system is sucking air somewhere between the check valve and the impeller. I can't tell you where exactly that is but that's got it narrowed down some.

Have you tried listening for it? Prime the pump, bleed the air out from the filter and get the psi back up to 16, then shut it off.

Next, start listening at every possible joint in the suction side. Some folks take a length of pvc pipe and hold it to the different areas as sort of a "hearing aid"

BTW, you have checked that your pool level is deep enough so that no air can be sucked in from the skimmer? Even sporadically.
 
You definitely have a suction side leak. Since you don't see any air in the check valve it has to be between it and the impeller. There have been a few reports where the strainer basket lid had a minute crack that wasn't visible except under close inspection.

You should run water over the plumbing and pump basket to see if the bubbles go away. We've had reports of shaving cream not working.

Dave & I were saying the same thing. :-D
 
If the skimmer is overfull it can suck air. Also if the skimmer door is blocked by something (floating pine cone) it can suck air. Plus pool water level too low can cause it to suck air. But you'd probably see that air pass the check valve.

Asking the pros now..... any chance this is cavitation?
 
I had a problem with air in the basket at one of the water feature pumps. Initially I thought it was a suction side air leak. PBS came and pulled a piece of plaster stuck in the suction line. Air in the pump basket was caused by cavitation. Now everything is fine
 

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duraleigh said:
Interesting how even people in the business often misdiagnose so many problems. Some are right on the money but many are not.

Well, if there are absolutely no bubbles in the check valve (you must check very closely) then the system is sucking air somewhere between the check valve and the impeller. I can't tell you where exactly that is but that's got it narrowed down some.

Have you tried listening for it? Prime the pump, bleed the air out from the filter and get the psi back up to 16, then shut it off.

Next, start listening at every possible joint in the suction side. Some folks take a length of pvc pipe and hold it to the different areas as sort of a "hearing aid"

BTW, you have checked that your pool level is deep enough so that no air can be sucked in from the skimmer? Even sporadically.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the reply , I wish we could find someone who could help. I don't mind doing things myself , but at a point one hopes experience would prevail and I don't have that. So the returns spew air bubbles like nuts. The pool level is ideal according to my knowledge ( mid skimmer ) . When I shut down the system I hear loads of gurgleing, which sounds wrong to my un-experienced ears. I'll try the "hearing aid" approach, at this point I'm desperate since continuing to hire people to fix this is not economically sound. Could it be the impeller ? I read somewhere that could be an issue, though from an engineering point of view that doesn't make sense. If replacing the pump is in order I'll do it , but my fear is I'll do that and wont solve anything.

Thanks again for taking the time to reply!!
 
If it turns out to be the pump, it's because the pump is sucking in air. There are very few places that can occur on the pump so should be easy to locate.

The gurgling you hear is all the air that has been sucked into your filter and is now trying to get out.

The answer is very basic but apparently difficult to locate.

Air is being sucked into your system. That can occur only in areas where the pressure is lower than the outside....i.e. somewhere between the skimmer and the pump. Being repetitive, once you find that source of air, your issues are over.

(It's not the impeller.)
 
Bama Rambler said:
You definitely have a suction side leak. Since you don't see any air in the check valve it has to be between it and the impeller. There have been a few reports where the strainer basket lid had a minute crack that wasn't visible except under close inspection.

You should run water over the plumbing and pump basket to see if the bubbles go away. We've had reports of shaving cream not working.

Dave & I were saying the same thing. :-D
Click to expand...

I actually thought the lid might be a problem and happen to have the same exact pump for my waterfall, so I swapped them, no luck. Bummer about the shaving cream , I bet my neighbors thought I was nuts putting shaving cream all over my pool systems, but that let's you know how desperate I am.
 

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