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Thread: Correct TA for pebblesheen

  1. #1
    Junior Member JAWS's Avatar
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    Correct TA for pebblesheen

    Hi all,
    Been lurking for awhile and recently joined. I've learned a lot from this site, thank you (Chem Geek, I live in Manteca and I can feel your brain power from here!). I have a pail of Proteam Supreme Plus waiting in the garage to serve me and my family. I want to make sure my TA/PH is correct before adding the borates. I'm getting conflicting recommended TA levels everywhere I turn. The PB is adamant that the level should be 125-150, yet here and elsewhere I see lower levels are preferred. I can make any adjustment necessary, and just need a target number. Appreciate any feedback from members here on an appropriate target TA level for Pebblesheen?

    Jim
    13K gunite pool/spa, built 2009. Twin Pentair Intellipro VS-3050, EasyTouch 8, System 3 cartridge 450, 400K Max-E-Therm, solar, Pebblesheen, in-floor cleaner, twin sheers

  2. #2
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Correct TA for pebblesheen

    The higher TA recommendations may be based on the assumption that you will use pucks which are acidic and lower the pH (so the higher TA would help stabilize the pH). But, if you are using bleach ... that is not the case.

    In fact, you have twin sheers I see, so that aeration is going to tend to make the pH drift up (SWG have the same effect). So, in your case, I would think something lower for TA, like in the 70 range, may help hold the pH down due to the sheers.

    What are you levels now? I would recommend seeing where you pool equalizes with normal use before adding the borates ... no real hurry to add them really.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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  3. #3
    Junior Member JAWS's Avatar
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    Re: Correct TA for pebblesheen

    The PB did indeed push the pucks (with an in-line feeder) and in my ignorance I went that route. I'm now in transition, just finished a 75% drain which reduced CYA to 38 (from 151), and using pucks/shock just to restart. I plan to use bleach moving forward. The water looked great before and still does, but you make a great point, I should wait until the water stabilizes under the new program before adding the borates.

    I appreciate the feedback of TA 70 based on my setup and the BBB approach, jblizzle, as I've never pushed TA below 100 and wanted a little reassurance, thanks!

    Latest numbers are below, based on my 4-way standard test kit plus CYA and hardness numbers from the pool store (K2006 is en-route).

    FC - 3
    CC - 0
    pH - 7.6
    TA - 130
    CH - 125 (total hardness)
    CYA - 38
    13K gunite pool/spa, built 2009. Twin Pentair Intellipro VS-3050, EasyTouch 8, System 3 cartridge 450, 400K Max-E-Therm, solar, Pebblesheen, in-floor cleaner, twin sheers

  4. #4
    Administrator JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Correct TA for pebblesheen

    You will also want to raise CH up to around 300.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    TFP Admin. Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  5. #5
    Junior Member JAWS's Avatar
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    Re: Correct TA for pebblesheen

    Will do. Before the drain, CH was about 300 and I was getting some scale, so I used 2/3's soft water on the refill ending up with a 125 reading. Now I realize the problem was not CH but the higher PH I kept battling. Keeping TA/PH at recommended TFP levels should do the trick.
    13K gunite pool/spa, built 2009. Twin Pentair Intellipro VS-3050, EasyTouch 8, System 3 cartridge 450, 400K Max-E-Therm, solar, Pebblesheen, in-floor cleaner, twin sheers

  6. #6
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Correct TA for pebblesheen

    CH is only part of the puzzle for scale ... pH plays a larger role so if you let it stay above 7.8 for any length of time, that could certainly have been the reason for the scale.

    Well, ignore what I just wrote as I now finished reading the second half of your post and see that you "get it"
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, Dolphin Diagnostic Robotic Cleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Gone: Hayward RS1500 pump, undersized DIY solar heater, Dolphin Dynamic Robotic Cleaner
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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  7. #7
    Junior Member JAWS's Avatar
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    Re: Correct TA for pebblesheen


    I sincerely appreciate the willingness of yourself and others to share your expertise, it has been a revelation, thanks again!
    13K gunite pool/spa, built 2009. Twin Pentair Intellipro VS-3050, EasyTouch 8, System 3 cartridge 450, 400K Max-E-Therm, solar, Pebblesheen, in-floor cleaner, twin sheers

  8. #8
    Junior Member JAWS's Avatar
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    Re: Correct TA for pebblesheen

    I adjusted TA/PH and finally added the Proteam Supreme Plus on Friday. Left the filter on over the weekend while away. Before and after numbers are below. Expected TA to go up a little, but not this much! It usually wants to hover around 140-160. The borates did this?

    I will say the water feels great! If my mind isn't tricking me it looks a little more sparkly too.

    Before adding PSP on Friday:
    FC - 5
    CC - 0
    pH - 7.5
    TA - 95
    CH - 150 (slowly raising this)
    CYA - 55

    After adding PSP on Sunday
    FC - 3
    CC - 0
    pH - 7.5
    TA - 230-240 (tested 3x, twice on K-2006, once on the old 4-way)
    CH - 150
    CYA - 55
    13K gunite pool/spa, built 2009. Twin Pentair Intellipro VS-3050, EasyTouch 8, System 3 cartridge 450, 400K Max-E-Therm, solar, Pebblesheen, in-floor cleaner, twin sheers

  9. #9
    Administrator JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Correct TA for pebblesheen

    That is very strange. While I have heard of that happening one or twice before, it is extremely uncommon and not caused by borates. Adding borates will raise the TA by 5, or maybe 10, but not by a huge amount like that. I suppose it is possible that the ProTeam Supreme Plus might have had the wrong chemical in it, but that seems extremely unlikely.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    TFP Admin. Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  10. #10
    Junior Member JAWS's Avatar
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    Re: Correct TA for pebblesheen

    I'm going to contact ProTeam tomorrow to see if they have received similar reports. In the mean time I get to enjoy the unending sound of water features
    13K gunite pool/spa, built 2009. Twin Pentair Intellipro VS-3050, EasyTouch 8, System 3 cartridge 450, 400K Max-E-Therm, solar, Pebblesheen, in-floor cleaner, twin sheers

  11. #11
    Junior Member JAWS's Avatar
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    Re: Correct TA for pebblesheen

    Contacted ProTeam today and was happy to see that they were concerned with what happened. They confirmed the impact to TA level should have been negligible. They asked for the batch number on my container and seemed sincere that they were going to investigate the issue from their end. He is also sending me a bunch of Muriatic Acid to compensate for what I'm using to correct the situation.

    All in all, despite what happened, I was very happy with how ProTeam responded. They handled it well, and stand behind their products.
    13K gunite pool/spa, built 2009. Twin Pentair Intellipro VS-3050, EasyTouch 8, System 3 cartridge 450, 400K Max-E-Therm, solar, Pebblesheen, in-floor cleaner, twin sheers

  12. #12
    Junior Member JAWS's Avatar
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    Re: Correct TA for pebblesheen

    I suspect another driving factor here is that ProTeam (unknown by me at the time) has apparently not gone through the steps necessary to ship Boric Acid products to California, yet I was still able to make a purchase through PoolGeek (who btw couldn't care less when I contacted them).
    13K gunite pool/spa, built 2009. Twin Pentair Intellipro VS-3050, EasyTouch 8, System 3 cartridge 450, 400K Max-E-Therm, solar, Pebblesheen, in-floor cleaner, twin sheers

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