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Thread: Tabs and PH dropping

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    Tabs and PH dropping

    Is there a way to use chlorine tabs and not have your PH always dropping? I dont have a problem with CYA. My pool seems to lose CYA every winter. The only reason I am considering not using the 3" tabs are for PH stability. I have been using up my extra liquid chlorine that I had from opening the pool this year and have noticed that using liquid my PH is much more stable so I did some research here and it seems that tabs tend to drop the PH. My other concern is I just put a new heat exchanger in and I have heard the tabs are hard on the heater as well as fighting the low PH constantly is a problem. The inside of my old heat exchanger was completely eaten away and I want to avoid that.

    The problem with the liquid however is I work all day so its easy to forget. I just realized I havent tested the pool in 3 days or added chlorine. With tabs I never had to worry. Is there a way to use them without the PH dropping all the time?
    Cleveland, Ohio
    IG 36,000 gallons. Vinyl Liner, Hayward ProGrid 3620 DE Filter, Hayward Super Pump, Hayward Gas Heater

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    Re: Tabs and PH dropping

    You can try boosting your alkalinity to higher levels and calculating and adding weekly the amount of borax to get your PH to 8 or so to give it some room to drift down through the target range, but in my opinion the biggest problem you're going to eventually face isn't the constant PH battle, it's the eventual build up of high levels of CYA and the problems they cause.

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    Re: Tabs and PH dropping

    Is there a way to use chlorine tabs and not have your PH always dropping?
    ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry in Pool School tells you how to raise pH.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Tabs and PH dropping

    Like I said I DO NOT have a CYA problem and in the area I live in it is not an issue. I know you guys love to think that everybody has a problem with CYA and its the enemy but the truth is in Northeast Ohio most of the time we ADD CYA to our pools after the winter!!! I have owned a pool my entire adult life and grew up with a pool as well as every person in my family has a pool. I know what CYA is and what it does and I dont have a problem. My question was not about CYA. My question was is there a way to use Trichlor Pucks AND stabilize my PH so I dont have to add Borax every few days. Bleach is way too expensive and at 6% chlorine not worth the hassle. I have thought about a fountain but I worry that will make the pool cold... I live in Cleveland Ohio.... I struggle to keep the thing warm!!!
    Cleveland, Ohio
    IG 36,000 gallons. Vinyl Liner, Hayward ProGrid 3620 DE Filter, Hayward Super Pump, Hayward Gas Heater

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    Re: Tabs and PH dropping

    Wow! Being snide is not going to get you help.
    Can you do a fountain type without it arching or whatever so the cooling down won't really happen? Almost like turning a return jet towards the top of the water, causing lots of bubbles. Does that make any sense.
    Mona SE MN
    24' round 48" high AG
    Meteor Sand Filter
    1.5 HP pump

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    Re: Tabs and PH dropping

    ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry in Pool School tells you how to raise pH.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Tabs and PH dropping

    Sorry about that but I get annoyed that everybody assumes I dont about the Evil CYA and how it can Ruin My Pool.... The reality is in the northeast thats not true. CYA is not the devil and most of us dont have a problem. We can use trichlor pucks for the life of the pool and have 0 problems. My dad has had his pool 30 years and used those pucks the whole time and his CYA was 0 this year when he opened the pool.

    Besides the fact that wasnt what my question was about...
    Cleveland, Ohio
    IG 36,000 gallons. Vinyl Liner, Hayward ProGrid 3620 DE Filter, Hayward Super Pump, Hayward Gas Heater

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    Re: Tabs and PH dropping

    I'm all kinds of curious now...

    How do you figure your location relates to CYA levels dropping over the winter? Rain? Snow? Fertilizers? What gives in NE Ohio that doesn't in other locations?

    I can't stand how the trichlor messes with pH, personally. It's enough to make vacation use worrisome for me, and it takes a lot of aireation to get it back up due to the borates. I have to think a lot more every day about the pool when they're in than I ever do dosing every night with bleach. When I forget, I usually remember by bed time or the next morning and it doesn't take but a few minutes to dose the pool.

    I guess I'd also suggest that perhaps another person in your household could be employed to help you remember, or even perform the daily dosing and make it part of the household routine. I'm terrible with creating and maintaining routines, but this one works for our routineless family. With bleach you won't have to worry about the pH or your very expensive heat exchanger, and I think that trumps convenience of being able to forget to dose once a day.
    Where kids swim in 54 degree water, turn blue, and giggle happily cuz they got a POOL!
    Year 3 BBB -15' x 48" Intex Metal Frame - Was using (2) 1000gph Intex cartridge filters (see Full time pumping Intex). 2012, converted to 1600gph and sand filter+SWG = Sand filter love affair!
    Don't waste time and energy looking for a better value on test kits, the TF100 is the best deal around. I did the looking and spent the extra money, but you don't have to make the same mistake. Just go here: TFTestkits. I use Pool Calculator for min/max, and shocking chlorine levels.

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    Re: Tabs and PH dropping

    I wish I knew what exactly it is about this area that makes CYA disappear. On average in my experience through the pools in my family we add CYA every other year. None of us drain our pools. Now I do lose some water due to snow pushing the cover down and then I pump the water from the cover back in to make up from it so possibly that acccounts for it but you are talking maybe 1000-2000 gallons in a 36,000 gallon pool. Right now my CYA is 40 and I have used 3" pucks and powder shock for the 7 years I have lived in this house with this pool. Have no idea what the guy who owned it before me did.

    I am the only person in the house so its all up to me. This morning while sitting at work I realized I havent even looked at the pool since Sunday and havent put chlorine in it since Saturday... Thats why I was trying to figure out a way to use the pucks and not have my PH drop. I have been reading about Borates and Salt... similar to the Foundation product they try to sell you at the pool store. That may be able to solve my problem. I was going to add salt anyway for feel.
    Cleveland, Ohio
    IG 36,000 gallons. Vinyl Liner, Hayward ProGrid 3620 DE Filter, Hayward Super Pump, Hayward Gas Heater

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    Re: Tabs and PH dropping

    So using tri-chlor, for every ~6 pucks you use, you will drop your pH by 0.5. To get the 0.5 pH rise without aeration, you will need to add 100 oz of baking soda (~1.5 boxes of 4# Arm and Hammer). How many pucks do you use a week?
    The 4# box is probably $8-10 each.
    20x44 IG vinyl. Intelliflo, Pentair Cartridge Filter (420ft^2), Raypac 336K, Kreepy Krauly

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    frogabog's Avatar
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    Re: Tabs and PH dropping

    PH tends to drop quickly for me using trichlor tablets, even with the borates in so I'm not entirely sure it would help much if you wanted to use trichlor full time and only aireation to raise it back up. It's getting it back up with aireation that's more difficult (read: takes longer). Borates seem to nicely stabilize pH all season if I don't use trichlor and I hardly ever have to adjust it, but it also makes it harder to move naturally when I do need to.
    Where kids swim in 54 degree water, turn blue, and giggle happily cuz they got a POOL!
    Year 3 BBB -15' x 48" Intex Metal Frame - Was using (2) 1000gph Intex cartridge filters (see Full time pumping Intex). 2012, converted to 1600gph and sand filter+SWG = Sand filter love affair!
    Don't waste time and energy looking for a better value on test kits, the TF100 is the best deal around. I did the looking and spent the extra money, but you don't have to make the same mistake. Just go here: TFTestkits. I use Pool Calculator for min/max, and shocking chlorine levels.

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    Ohm_Boy's Avatar
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    Re: Tabs and PH dropping

    Trichlor is acidic, so one would expect it to affect the pH. As was mentioned earlier, you may be able to get some help with a higher TA level, since high TA tends to pull the pH up. Can you give us a full set of numbers? (Include pH, TA, and CH.) The trick is to balance everything to keep the water from being too aggressive on the heater while helping to build in a pH rise to offset the trichlor pH drop. Aiming a return eyeball to break the surface of the water may give you enough aeration to raise pH.
    [center:1kpalu48]Helpful Links: Pool School | CYA/Chlorine Chart | Pool Calculator[/center:1kpalu48]

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    Re: Tabs and PH dropping

    Also just using bleach is much cheaper than the pucks or 'shock treatments'.
    I work everyday, the pool gets taken care of when I get home. I turn the pump on, change clothes, add bleach, done. Pump gets turned off before I go to bed.

    As they said, if you can turn a jet to break the surface of the water it might be enough, without going to a fountain and having the water cool down.

    I don't have heater on mine and living in Minnesota you hope for some hot days to warm it up so I hear you about not wanting to do anything to cool it back down.
    Mona SE MN
    24' round 48" high AG
    Meteor Sand Filter
    1.5 HP pump

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    Re: Tabs and PH dropping

    Question: I am using Borax to raise PH not Baking Soda because my TA is 100 and I dont want to raise it too much. As I add Borax I know that it stays in the water. Eventually will I get to the point where I have essentially added Borates without having to go through the whole process?

    I dont know exactly how many pucks I am going through a week. I typically buy an 8lb container and fill the CL200 to the top. When its empty I refill it. I adjust the flow based on testing. I know this is not ideal and like I said I really tried to use just the liquid and I love the fact that using liquid does not alter my PH the problem is I am just not home enough during the week. I work long hours and travel for work. I know I am going to end up with a green pool if I go that route.

    I havent tested the pool since Saturday like I said. I can tell you there is probably very little chlorine left in it by now.
    On sat
    TA 100
    PH 7.6

    Should I bring the TA up higher than that? thanks.
    Cleveland, Ohio
    IG 36,000 gallons. Vinyl Liner, Hayward ProGrid 3620 DE Filter, Hayward Super Pump, Hayward Gas Heater

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