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Thread: Cannot defeat algae and party coming this weekend

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    Cannot defeat algae and party coming this weekend

    Hello all- I'm new to TFP; the site looks a great knowledge pool (sorry about the pun) but to be honest i joined in desperation looking for guidance. I have a green pool and 60 people coming to the house this weekend for a party!!!!

    For about 3 weeks now have been fighting green algae. I have overcome it once, or nearly, by using algaecide treatment Yellow Out. The treatment plan was to raise PH to above 7.8 , then use 4 ilbs of Coral Seas Yellow Out, followed a few minutes later by 5 ilbs of Leslies Pwer Powder shock. Then repeat the shock (Power Plus) twice after 12 hours and 24 hours. I swept the pool 2-3 times during the treatment. This cleared it apart from a i noticed a few bits floating in corners. I swept these and kept the chlorine level up. Unfortunately i then had to do 2 days of business travel and when i came back it was again green. (i think after reading up somewhat i should have added some Phosphate control at this point!!)

    Since then following advice from Lesley Pool supplies and also as it worked almost first time around i repeated the treatment. This time i slipped up and made a mistake on first remembering to raise the PH. Otherwise I repeated the treatment above and on advice from the Coral Seas as long as i raised the PH within a day or so the algaecide would still be effective. I raised the PH within 12 hours after the Yellow Out was added -but it did not. There was no noticeable improvement, water still very green (almost luminous).

    I went back to Leslie's this weekend. They said follow the treatment exactly - it will work. I did and it has not made any noticeable difference through the two days of treatment.

    One observation - the pools PH would drop after 5-6 hours. I would add PH Plus or Borax (20 Mule Team), the PH would raise to 7.8-8.0. But then 5-6 hours later it would be back down to 7.2-7.4. So was continually re-raising the PH.

    I now do not know how to proceed am looking for guidance. My temptation at this stage is to drain the pool. Wipe down the liner with diluted bleach and refill and monitor very carefully. I need a new bulb in my pool light anyway! Am a little concerend as is a Liner pool but it has been emptied once before.

    Any other ideas would really be appreciated.
    Appreciate all advice
    Mike

    Right now:
    Pool water is green to look at- cannot see more than 2 feet into water.
    total Chlorine- 2 PPM
    PH 7.2-7.4
    When last measured 6/1/12 prior to last treatment
    TA - 120
    CH - 220
    CYA 60
    Pool 24,000 gallon: Vinyl : IG: Pump size: Filter: Sand Flow Rate 30 GPM
    Other Information - Based in Charlotte, NC, Many trees surrounding pool

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    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: Cannot defeat algae and party coming this weekend

    Mike,

    Welcome to TFP!

    This is not impossible, but you are going to have to get right on it, and ignore what Leslie's has been telling you.

    The first thing to do is run your filter 24/7, back washing as needed.

    Next, you need to stop using anything in the pool but liquid chlorine, also know as bleach or liquid shock.

    The most important step is to get your chlorine level to 24ppm, and hold it there day and night. You'll be testing hourly at first, but you'll back that down after the first several hours. Don't worry about any test numbers but chlorine for the time being.

    If you can start tonight, so much the better. Either use Walmart GV unscented bleach or pool shock if you can find it. At 24,000 gallons, it's going to take a little over 1000 ounces of 6% to get there. With the 182oz jugs, that's right at 6 jugs. You want to add slowly, I prefer to keep the stream entering the water no larger than a pencil. Then spend some time brushing the pool while you wait. In an hour, test the pool again and add what you need to get back to. 24ppm. Each of those jugs is going to add 3.7ppm to your water, so you can get an estimate when you need to add more.

    How do you test at 24ppm? If you are like most pool owners, you can't test any higher than 3 or 5 ppm. A good test kit is available in Raleigh from tftestkits.net in the form of the TFP-100 that can test to 50ppm, but you probably can't wait. You can dilute your pool sample with distiller water at 7 parts distilled to 1 part pool water, then multiply your reading by 8. Far from ideal, but it will get you moving.

    If you stick with this regimen, you will see major progress by Wednesday, I promise. Brush twice a day, hit the chlorine hourly at first, then every few hours, then around every 8 hours until you have it under control?

    Here is some reading that will fill you in on anything I've left out.
    Chlorine CYA Chart

    Defeating Algae

    Shocking Your Pool
    By the way, there is no need to drain for a bulb change. The housing comes out and can be put on the deck to change the bulb up there.
    TFP Moderator
    20K Gallon 20X36 Vinyl Inground
    Hayward S244T Sand Filter with 1HP Whisperflo Pump. Liquidator C-201 and Solar Heat

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    Re: Cannot defeat algae and party coming this weekend

    Please read pool school. It's a lot of information, but it is so informative! After you have a good grasp the visit the pool calculator. You'll be able to clear your pool, without the "aid" (I'm being sarcastic) of Leslie's.
    18'x48" AG
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    x2rider's Avatar
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    Re: Cannot defeat algae and party coming this weekend

    You're so lucky your CYA is not out of control, it's almost smack on.

    I plugged the numbers in, and it looks like you need to get the FC up to 18 and hold it there until it drops 1 part over night on the OCLT test. It sounds like you'll be keeping it at this level the rest of the week, and it could run into next week, but hopefully it'll be clear enough for the party.

    Be sure to sweep the walls as well as vacuuming the floor to waste, keep the pump running 24x7, watch your pump pressure and backwash when it comes up a few pounds.

    and get a good test kit so you can actually measure a FC of 18

    ok, poolcalculator says 18, chart says 24, slight discrepancy, I would say since you have a party coming up this weekend, go with the 24 on the chart, it'll kill things faster and it won't hurt anything.
    27000 gal 18x36 rectangle In-Ground built in 1978
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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Cannot defeat algae and party coming this weekend

    Order the TF-100 (maybe with XL option) NOW ... too late for shipping today, but it would go out tomorrow and you should have it on Wednesday.
    Don't think about it ... just do it!!!
    You have to be able to accurately test the FC if you have any hope.

    While waiting read these:
    Defeating Algae
    Turning Your Green Swamp Back into a Sparkling Oasis
    Shocking Your Pool

    BTW, draining your pool may end up doing more harm than good if the ground water level is high or the liner is older ... read that as "Time to order a new liner"
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Cannot defeat algae and party coming this weekend

    Quote Originally Posted by x2rider
    I plugged the numbers in, and it looks like you need to get the FC up to 18
    Using the Chlorine CYA Chart shows a shock level of 24ppm ... yes I know it is odd that the chart and poolcalculator do not match.

    Anyways, since time is a critical factor, I suggest using the higher value.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    x2rider's Avatar
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    Re: Cannot defeat algae and party coming this weekend

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle
    Quote Originally Posted by x2rider
    I plugged the numbers in, and it looks like you need to get the FC up to 18
    Using the Chlorine CYA Chart shows a shock level of 24ppm ... yes I know it is odd that the chart and poolcalculator do not match.

    Anyways, since time is a critical factor, I suggest using the higher value.
    Just edited mine with the same comment. When I posted, I only saw a one liner post. Now that the whole thing is there, the description is better than mine
    27000 gal 18x36 rectangle In-Ground built in 1978
    Vinyl liner, 3/4hp Hayward Super pump, single speed 3450rpm
    SWG: Hayward Aquarite AQR15
    Sand Filter: 300 pound sta-rite T-240BP-1, 3.14 sqft surface area
    K-2006 Test kit

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    Re: Cannot defeat algae and party coming this weekend

    Agree with above, just took care of my algae bloom. Maintain chlorine level and make sure your filter is functioning properly. Had it happen once last year and failed to maintain high enough chlorine levesl and it took three days to clear. This year less than 24 hrs.

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    Re: Cannot defeat algae and party coming this weekend

    Thanks all for the very useful advice.
    I have used Walmart bleach before for chlorine. I have 3 bottles of 182 fl oz and 4 lbs of power shock. This sounds like it might be enough to get the free chlorine up to near 24 ppm. Question is when do i start? I can do it now but If i have to monitor it hourly maybe better in early in the morning.
    Please explain how you normally pour the bleach at a pencil hole size - just pierce a whole in the bleach bottle? Assume this is straight into the pool?

    I will head out now and get some further supplies of bleach and the distilled water for the interim test. Also order the kit.
    I'll let you know how i get on.
    Pool 24,000 gallon: Vinyl : IG: Pump size: Filter: Sand Flow Rate 30 GPM
    Other Information - Based in Charlotte, NC, Many trees surrounding pool

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Cannot defeat algae and party coming this weekend

    Just slowly poor the bleach into the pool in front of a skimmer.

    Use poolcalculator.com to figure out how much bleach you need to add ... as a hint, 182 oz of 6% bleach will raise your FC by 3.7ppm in a 24000 gallon pool.

    You're gonna need more bleach!!!

    The sooner you can start the better, but without being able to test for the first few days it is going to be tough.

    Also, what is the "power shock" made of? If it is dichlor or trichlor ... DO NOT USE IT as it will raise your CYA higher (and you are already a little high).

    Actually, if you want something to do tonight, you could replace 50% of your water (or whatever you feel comfortable with) to lower your CYA closer to 30 ppm which will be easier to shock at lower FC levels ... and will remove some of the algae.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Cannot defeat algae and party coming this weekend

    Follow the advice above but keep in mind that if you want it clear by this weekend you need to test and bring it back to shock level each hour. Since you can't test today, use your oto chlorine test and use 3 parts chlorine free water to 1 part pool water and multiply the result by 4. It won't be accurate but at least it'll allow you to stay near shock level.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
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    Re: Cannot defeat algae and party coming this weekend

    Hello All. Thought I'd give an update.
    Today i added 6 x 182 Walmart bleach to the pool at 6 AM. Adding slowly as stated. I brushed the pool. I did the hokey test using my normal home pool kit which only registers up to 5 PPM by adding 7 part distilled water and 1 part pool water and then using that to test. It was registering around 3-4 ppm so multiplied by 8 is up there hopefully around 24 or maybe more. The reading has not changed much all day and have done the reading maybe 6 - 7 times. Have back washed 3 times and also emptied about 8-9 inches of water out of the pool which is is about 15-16% as only on average about 4 feet of water. Also vacuumed after this.
    Observations:
    Water is still green but got more cloudy looking- I'm assuming this is the chlorine breaking the algae down.
    My liner has faded in color below thhe water line. I am fairly certain this just happened today with the high level of bleach. Hopefully no permanent damage there.

    Do you think i am on track?
    Anything else i should be doing or- same again tomorrow? Ps should have the TF100 kit by tomorrow morning.
    Pool 24,000 gallon: Vinyl : IG: Pump size: Filter: Sand Flow Rate 30 GPM
    Other Information - Based in Charlotte, NC, Many trees surrounding pool

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    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: Cannot defeat algae and party coming this weekend

    The fading didn't happen today. It takes ages to fade a liner, and with 60ppm CYA, your effective chlorine level is actually much lower. You were probably at a higher level with the powder than you are now.

    Stay the course and sweep. You should see things shifting toward a blue color by tomorrow.
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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Cannot defeat algae and party coming this weekend

    I don't think a liner will instantly fade (I could be wrong). I can not see how 1 day of high FC would cause that (we never see reports of that). But if it is faded, it will not un-fade.

    If your pool was very green, I am very surprised that the FC level is not dropping rapidly.

    The TF100 will give us some answers in the morning.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Cannot defeat algae and party coming this weekend

    Keep in mind that adding lots of bleach will greatly increase your pH and chlorine loses efficiency when pH > 7.8 -- Some pH tests also will give incorrect results when FC high. When shocking, I usually like to at least know roughly how much acid I need to add to counteract the pH rise.....poolcalculator or one of the smartphone apps would calculate this for you.
    24K gallon inground gunite/pebble sheen pool, 34'x16' 4-7.5ft deep, 750sq ft solar, pentair ultratemp, intelliflow vs+, ic60, intellichem w/ acid pump, quad de 100, intellibright 5g, intellitouch i5-3s with Screenlogic2, 3" primary piping - 2.5" at equip pad, auto switched deep heating and main returns, automatic safety cover w/ electronic lock and embedded recessed undertrack, sealed stamped concrete deck, dolphin deluxe 5, started up December 2011.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Cannot defeat algae and party coming this weekend

    Quote Originally Posted by MattM
    Keep in mind that adding lots of bleach will greatly increase your pH and chlorine loses efficiency when pH > 7.8 -- Some pH tests also will give incorrect results when FC high. When shocking, I usually like to at least know roughly how much acid I need to add to counteract the pH rise.....poolcalculator or one of the smartphone apps would calculate this for you.
    Bleach is effectively pH neutral ... poolcalculator does not show any effect on pH as any changes are temporary.

    You are correct that the pH test is not accurate for FC > 10ppm.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    MattM's Avatar
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    Re: Cannot defeat algae and party coming this weekend

    Hrm, 192oz of bleach always raises the pH of my 24K pool by around 0.15 pH....and multiply by the number of bottles....last time I shocked, pH went up from 7.2 to 7.7 using ~4 bottles....pH was being read by intellichem...I assumed it was correct since every reading that I've been able to verify has always been good. I don't know if it's impacted by high FC..but it doesn't seem to be.
    24K gallon inground gunite/pebble sheen pool, 34'x16' 4-7.5ft deep, 750sq ft solar, pentair ultratemp, intelliflow vs+, ic60, intellichem w/ acid pump, quad de 100, intellibright 5g, intellitouch i5-3s with Screenlogic2, 3" primary piping - 2.5" at equip pad, auto switched deep heating and main returns, automatic safety cover w/ electronic lock and embedded recessed undertrack, sealed stamped concrete deck, dolphin deluxe 5, started up December 2011.

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    Re: Cannot defeat algae and party coming this weekend

    Liner - Ive been fighting this for 3 weeks. Water has pretty much been green all that time so not been able to see the liner under the water line for a while. I have put a lot of chemicals in the water including a high level of bleach before as i tried to follow some of this website advice but now know didn't maintain it at a high enough rate or sustain it. So now I'm guessing its faded over the last few weeks.

    After reading the last couple of posts JbLizzle in particular (thank you), you got me thinking that the FC level should have dropped. I measured it again on my "hokey" test - it has dropped now somewhere between 1 PPM and 2 PPM which when multiplied by 8 is of course going to be anywhere from 8 to 16. I decided to air on caution and guessed at a reading of 10 and after using pool calculator added 3.8 (4) more bottles of bleach. I also swept the pool.
    Suspect this is more in line with our expectations. Am looking forward to an accurate reading.

    I have to go to Atlanta for the day tomorrow. Will re-test in morning and get my 17 year old to do during the day - hopefully with the new test kit- hope he can work it out? What tests would you recommend as fundamental tests he can do. I'll be back around 6 PM.
    Thanks to all again.
    Pool 24,000 gallon: Vinyl : IG: Pump size: Filter: Sand Flow Rate 30 GPM
    Other Information - Based in Charlotte, NC, Many trees surrounding pool

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Cannot defeat algae and party coming this weekend

    1. Verify pH is low 7s while FC < 10ppm

    2. Verify CYA

    3. Focus on maintaining FC above shock level for your CYA.

    Posted with Tapatalk ... sorry if I sound short ... hate typing on phone
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Cannot defeat algae and party coming this weekend

    Quote Originally Posted by mjtraynor73
    My liner has faded in color below thhe water line. I am fairly certain this just happened today with the high level of bleach. Hopefully no permanent damage there.
    From reading these forums, it seems to take a really, really high bleach level to do damage to the liner. If this is the first time that you've properly chlorinated and shocked your pool, I wouldn't be surprised if you're seeing the liner brighten up because it's actually clean, and slight organic stains are gone.
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