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Thread: Don't Mind Me-Need A Place To Vent

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    Glock30's Avatar
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    Don't Mind Me-Need A Place To Vent

    Last fall I got the older IG pool in my yard rennovated/rebuilt.
    New liner, new pipes, new skimmers, added lights blah blah.

    Found out this spring that the bond wire (which checked out fine before work started) was cut when the pool company was digging for the pipe replacement. They denied it.

    Replaced the bond wire and all looked fine.
    Pool was runnning excellent.

    Last week it rained a ton and my pump breaker kept kicking off.
    Electrician traced it to the white wire being nicked (bare) somewhere between my shed and my house. Also done while digging for pipes.
    Now I need to dig an 18" deep trench, by hand, to unearth the old wires to either replace or repair the bare section.

    I e-mailed the pool company and, of course, got very little help.

    Thanks, I feel better already
    18' X 36' Inground Pool 26,000 gallons. SuperMax 27mil/27mil Vinyl Liner-Installed Fall 2011
    Pentair Intellipro Programable Pump (Model 011018) // Pentair S8M 500 Cartridge Filter // Circupool RJ45 Salt Chlorinator
    2 Hayward Skimmers // 3 Returns // 2 Savi Melody Pool lights // TF-100 Test Kit.

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    Re: Don't Mind Me-Need A Place To Vent

    Sounds like you need to get to the range soon. lol
    Sean Assam - Sean@teamhorner.com
    National Accounts and Commercial Products Manager
    AquaCal Heat Pumps www.aquacal.com
    AutoPilot Salt Chlorine Generators www.autopilot.com

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    Re: Don't Mind Me-Need A Place To Vent

    That sucks. Cant you just pull new conductors through the conduit?
    11,872 Gallon IG Shotcrete play pool
    Blue Granite Pebble Sheen finish
    Hayward SwimClear c4025, Navigator & Tristar 1.75hp pump
    2' Powerfall

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    Glock30's Avatar
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    Re: Don't Mind Me-Need A Place To Vent

    Quote Originally Posted by Poolsean
    Sounds like you need to get to the range soon. lol
    Good Call.
    18' X 36' Inground Pool 26,000 gallons. SuperMax 27mil/27mil Vinyl Liner-Installed Fall 2011
    Pentair Intellipro Programable Pump (Model 011018) // Pentair S8M 500 Cartridge Filter // Circupool RJ45 Salt Chlorinator
    2 Hayward Skimmers // 3 Returns // 2 Savi Melody Pool lights // TF-100 Test Kit.

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    Glock30's Avatar
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    Re: Don't Mind Me-Need A Place To Vent

    Quote Originally Posted by Shane1
    That sucks. Cant you just pull new conductors through the conduit?
    No, it is buried under the pipes and I do not want to mess with them.
    18' X 36' Inground Pool 26,000 gallons. SuperMax 27mil/27mil Vinyl Liner-Installed Fall 2011
    Pentair Intellipro Programable Pump (Model 011018) // Pentair S8M 500 Cartridge Filter // Circupool RJ45 Salt Chlorinator
    2 Hayward Skimmers // 3 Returns // 2 Savi Melody Pool lights // TF-100 Test Kit.

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    Samantha Sabrina's Avatar
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    Re: Don't Mind Me-Need A Place To Vent

    Are your current wires running thru conduit or direct buried?

    If they are direct buried, when you dig it up I strongly suggest laying grey PVC conduit under ground and pulling the new wire thru that.

    3 reasons, first the wires are much less likely to rot and cause another short, plus groundhogs, gophers, and future workers are much less likely to "nick" the wires, the conduit really does help protect the wires, plus if you ever need to run new wires because of a short somewhere else along the line, you can pull new wire without having to dig it up.

    Using one or 2 sizes bigger conduit than you actually need will give room for bigger wires if ever needed.
    Samantha

    In the process of building for a 22' Intex Ultra Frame, (completion date up in the air at this point).
    We could not beat our backyard into submission so we "Buried It".

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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: Don't Mind Me-Need A Place To Vent

    I second the bit about using gray PVC conduit, it is cheap (depending on size only around $5 for 20ft section), go bigger than you think you need to make it easier to pull the wires if nothing else. Why can't you use a walk behind trencher, around here they rent for $50 per day for the small ones (that will trench down to 12 inches) or about $75 per day for the ones that will trench down to 18 inches.

    I think NEC code will let you get away with shallower than 18 inches ifyou put the wire in conduit, 18 is minimum for direct burry wire I think conduit is 6 or 12 inch

    Ike
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
    I use and endorse TFtestKits TF-100 from http://tftestkits.net
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    Re: Don't Mind Me-Need A Place To Vent

    Yep. Ya got to love personal responsibilty or the lack of...
    I will also recomend the conduit as well. When you pull the new wires though go to an elect distributor and get separate strands of black, white and green THWN wire. This is rated for burrial in conduit.

    Just so you don't feel alone in your misery, I got a call from a guy last night to get some help with a new pool he just had installed. It seems the pool company he purchased it from did not do installs but instead gave out a list of contractors who do this work. As he called down the list he kept getting the same reply. "sorry, booked till the end of July". finaly getting one who was able to come out he hired them. Pool was installed 15 x 30 Above ground, ran elect for pump, etc...did not hook up the hoses to and from the pump. Customer called him back and got no reply several times. So, he tried to hook it up himself and could not figure it out. This is where he got in touch with me.

    Our township has adopted the new 2012 NEC and it requires a water bond as the local inspector reads it. I am not going to argue the point one way or another. It is a good idea and that is that. The installers idea to provide this was to replace the plastic pump inlet nipple with a brass one so he could attach a water meter bond clamp to it. However, the standard filter hookup hose will not fit over the barbed nipple, it is now up to me to figure out how to do the hookup. This is why the installer won't call him back. He could not figure out a way to do the hookup either and does not want to spend the time to do it.


    My new customer is ready to throw in the towel on this whole experience and his kids have not even got into the pool yet
    Unknown make 18' above ground (bought used in 1999) Sparco sand filter. Hayward 100,000 BTu heater. 2 speed pump

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    Re: Don't Mind Me-Need A Place To Vent

    I recommend replacing all of the wiring to the pool equipment pad. It sounds as though this was not done when the pool was remodeled, and this would give you a chance to bring the electrical subpanel up to code. You might also find that more power is needed there. In any event, wiring can degrade over time, especially if direct buried. Trying to find the nick on the wire would be very difficult anyway. So, as said, dig a trench, use gray PVC of at least 1" inside diameter, and run the conduit from your house's electrical panel to your pool pad. Get yourself a new sub-panel and GFCI protected breakers for the pool pump, chlorinator and lights. I'd suggest a 220V 30A minimum panel given your current equipment, which means at least 8 gauge copper wire... black & red (each 120V line), white (neutral) and green THWN. The subpanel should have its own grounding bar and the grounds and neutrals are not to be bonded (e.g. keep the neutral separate from the ground). If attached to a separate structure (e.g. shed or pool house), a separate ground rod will also be needed. You might be better off digging the trench yourself and having an electrician do the wiring, as they can get breaks on the cost of copper wiring and all of the stuff needed, not to mention that they should know what they are doing.
    38K in ground pool with attached spa. Current equipment: Easytouch 8 (521150) with IC-60 SWCG with web control by Autelis, 1x Pentair IntelliFlo 011018 pump (for filter), 1x Pentair 2HP WhisperFlo pump (for waterfall), 2X Pentair IntelliBrite 5G 12V lights, Pentair MiniMax400 NG Heater, Pentair SMBW2060 DE filter. Zodiac Barracuda MX8 cleaner on dedicated cleaner line. Lighting/home automation controlled by Insteon/ISY-99i.

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    Samantha Sabrina's Avatar
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    Re: Don't Mind Me-Need A Place To Vent

    Quote Originally Posted by CraigMW
    I recommend replacing all of the wiring to the pool equipment pad. It sounds as though this was not done when the pool was remodeled, and this would give you a chance to bring the electrical subpanel up to code. You might also find that more power is needed there. In any event, wiring can degrade over time, especially if direct buried. Trying to find the nick on the wire would be very difficult anyway. So, as said, dig a trench, use gray PVC of at least 1" inside diameter, and run the conduit from your house's electrical panel to your pool pad. Get yourself a new sub-panel and GFCI protected breakers for the pool pump, chlorinator and lights. I'd suggest a 220V 30A minimum panel given your current equipment, which means at least 8 gauge copper wire... black & red (each 120V line), white (neutral) and green THWN. The subpanel should have its own grounding bar and the grounds and neutrals are not to be bonded (e.g. keep the neutral separate from the ground). If attached to a separate structure (e.g. shed or pool house), a separate ground rod will also be needed. You might be better off digging the trench yourself and having an electrician do the wiring, as they can get breaks on the cost of copper wiring and all of the stuff needed, not to mention that they should know what they are doing.
    Contractors do indeed buy supplies at wholesale prices, but they NEVER pass the savings on to you, and most will mark the prices up considerably, whenever possible purchase the materials yourself.
    Samantha

    In the process of building for a 22' Intex Ultra Frame, (completion date up in the air at this point).
    We could not beat our backyard into submission so we "Buried It".

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    Re: Don't Mind Me-Need A Place To Vent

    Samantha:

    It's not always the case that contractors always do that. I had an electrician out who quoted me $750 to run a 60A service to the pool pad from the house (125 run) if I dug the trench. I had the trench dug by a handyman and then ended up doing it myself. I spent about $500 in supplies, and it took quite a bit of my time. However, and in line with your post that you linked to, I know exactly how that line was run. I know it is up to code since I spent much time researching the details, and I am confident that I myself can fix any issues that arise with that sub-panel. The same cannot be said for our home wiring, since I didn't do that (and I know the previous owner did some odd wiring jobs in the house).

    However, I have considerable experience with electrical work. I still think that having an electrician do this sort of stuff is best.
    38K in ground pool with attached spa. Current equipment: Easytouch 8 (521150) with IC-60 SWCG with web control by Autelis, 1x Pentair IntelliFlo 011018 pump (for filter), 1x Pentair 2HP WhisperFlo pump (for waterfall), 2X Pentair IntelliBrite 5G 12V lights, Pentair MiniMax400 NG Heater, Pentair SMBW2060 DE filter. Zodiac Barracuda MX8 cleaner on dedicated cleaner line. Lighting/home automation controlled by Insteon/ISY-99i.

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