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Thread: Converting Neighbor to BBB

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    Converting Neighbor to BBB

    I am converting my neighbor to the BBB method after I tested their pool and they found the true results of their water and not the pool store results So here are their numbers:

    FC-2.8
    CC-0
    pH-6.3ish (Did base demand test and it took 55 drops of reagnet to get the pH to 7.0 )
    TA-250+
    CYA-100+

    They have an 27'AG with a volume of 18,500 gallons with a vinyl liner. They currently use Trichlor 3" tablets with an in-line feeder. I want to make sure I get them going in the right direction. I have told them the pH is the most important and to start adding Borax to raise it up, then we will start working on the TA. Is this the way to proceed?
    30'x54" Round Vogue Simbio AG ~21,000 gallons
    Pentair Sand Dollar SD 60 w/ Pentair Dynamo 1.5 hp Pump
    Vinyl Uni-Bead 25mil Liner
    Perfect Bottom w/cove
    Taylor K-2005 & K-2006 Test Kit

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    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: Converting Neighbor to BBB

    CYA is so high that it dominates what you need to do. They should replace enough water to get that reasonable, then work on the rest of the chemistry after you see what the water replacement does for the numbers.
    TFP Moderator
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    Re: Converting Neighbor to BBB

    I was afraid of that....This is something they really don't want to do. I'm sure I can talk them into it though. Any idea how much water? If I have already told them to add Borax , should I tell them not to and remove the water instead?
    30'x54" Round Vogue Simbio AG ~21,000 gallons
    Pentair Sand Dollar SD 60 w/ Pentair Dynamo 1.5 hp Pump
    Vinyl Uni-Bead 25mil Liner
    Perfect Bottom w/cove
    Taylor K-2005 & K-2006 Test Kit

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Converting Neighbor to BBB

    You're gonna need to repeat the CYA test after diluting the sample 50-50, or maybe even 2:1 then multiply the reading to get a better number than 100+. Then you will have a ballpark figure how much water to dump. Right now, the minimum you need to replace is 50%.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    Re: Converting Neighbor to BBB

    Quote Originally Posted by Shawdaddy1972
    If I have already told them to add Borax , should I tell them not to and remove the water instead?
    Ph that low is hard on a liner, but it's been that way for awhile, so a few more hours, or a day, will make it no worse. I would probably dump the water first, but if they are not doing that in the next day or so, then I would dose with Borax.

    You are doing a good thing helping them out, and it is nice that they are receptive
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Converting Neighbor to BBB

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320
    You're gonna need to repeat the CYA test after diluting the sample 50-50, or maybe even 2:1 then multiply the reading to get a better number than 100+. Then you will have a ballpark figure how much water to dump. Right now, the minimum you need to replace is 50%.
    The Taylor kits I have will tell me how to perform this test? I remember reading something in the book about it I think.
    30'x54" Round Vogue Simbio AG ~21,000 gallons
    Pentair Sand Dollar SD 60 w/ Pentair Dynamo 1.5 hp Pump
    Vinyl Uni-Bead 25mil Liner
    Perfect Bottom w/cove
    Taylor K-2005 & K-2006 Test Kit

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Converting Neighbor to BBB

    Quote Originally Posted by Shawdaddy1972
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard320
    You're gonna need to repeat the CYA test after diluting the sample 50-50, or maybe even 2:1 then multiply the reading to get a better number than 100+. Then you will have a ballpark figure how much water to dump. Right now, the minimum you need to replace is 50%.
    The Taylor kits I have will tell me how to perform this test? I remember reading something in the book about it I think.
    Take a test vial, put 15 ml pool water in it, then 15 ml tap water. mix it up good. There's your sample. Follow the CYA test procedure and get your CYA reading, then double it.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
    Troublefree does not mean Maintenancefree. It's like brushing your teeth: You can spend a couple minutes a day and pennies a week or go to the dentist once a year and spend several thousand dollars.
    A pool is like a pet - you have to feed it every day, even the days you don't want to play with it!

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Converting Neighbor to BBB

    Quote Originally Posted by Shawdaddy1972
    The Taylor kits I have will tell me how to perform this test? I remember reading something in the book about it I think.
    Step 9 in the extended test kit directions has this procedure outlined: http://www.troublefreepool.com/exten...1.html#p206397
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Converting Neighbor to BBB

    Quote Originally Posted by linen
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawdaddy1972
    The Taylor kits I have will tell me how to perform this test? I remember reading something in the book about it I think.
    Step 9 in the extended test kit directions has this procedure outlined: http://www.troublefreepool.com/exten...1.html#p206397
    AWESOME! Thx much. Now I'm trying to get them in Pool School
    30'x54" Round Vogue Simbio AG ~21,000 gallons
    Pentair Sand Dollar SD 60 w/ Pentair Dynamo 1.5 hp Pump
    Vinyl Uni-Bead 25mil Liner
    Perfect Bottom w/cove
    Taylor K-2005 & K-2006 Test Kit

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    Re: Converting Neighbor to BBB

    I will do the 50/50 test tonight and post the findings so I can know how much water to dump
    30'x54" Round Vogue Simbio AG ~21,000 gallons
    Pentair Sand Dollar SD 60 w/ Pentair Dynamo 1.5 hp Pump
    Vinyl Uni-Bead 25mil Liner
    Perfect Bottom w/cove
    Taylor K-2005 & K-2006 Test Kit

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    Re: Converting Neighbor to BBB

    With a CYA over 100 and a vinyl liner, they may be looking at multiple drains/refills.

    Example - CYA = 150, Drain 25% at a time
    Drain/fill 1 = 112.5
    Drain/fill 2 = 84.375
    Drain/fill 3 = 63.28
    Darin/fill 4 = 47.46

    If they never had any problems and they backwashed their filter, they could probably get by with a CYA of 63. However, a CYA of 47 or less would be much easier to deal with.

    Some people have mentioned laying a tarp or plastic sheeting over the pool and pumping in fresh water on top while pumping out the old water from below. This keeps the volume of water in the pool pretty constant, would be much quicker, and would use less water. But you would need some equipment and probably need water delivered.

    From 150 CYA, drain 25% at a time, to reach CYA of 47
    Drain/fill 4 times = 4625 x 4 = 18,500 gallons of new water needed (works out to be the entire pool)

    From 150 CYA, drain 66% at a time, to reach CYA of 50
    Drain/fill 1 time = 12,210
    ~~ Allison ~~
    Intex 18' x 48" Easy Set Pool, approximately 5455 gallons
    Krystal Clear 1500 GPH Filter Pump Model 56635EG - 635 with Auto Timer
    BBB FOR BEGINNERS ~ THIS IS A MUST READ FOR ANYONE OVERWHELMED!!

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    Re: Converting Neighbor to BBB

    Their CYA was 180....I have finally talked them into draining at least 50% out and starting back with the BBB. Once the CYA is managable, what would be the proper steps to getting them on the BBB?
    30'x54" Round Vogue Simbio AG ~21,000 gallons
    Pentair Sand Dollar SD 60 w/ Pentair Dynamo 1.5 hp Pump
    Vinyl Uni-Bead 25mil Liner
    Perfect Bottom w/cove
    Taylor K-2005 & K-2006 Test Kit

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    Administrator Leebo's Avatar
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    Re: Converting Neighbor to BBB

    If the true CYA is 180 then more than 50% needs to be drained. Get the level to 50 then start. After the dump a full test needs to be done, and go from there.

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    Re: Converting Neighbor to BBB

    Get the CYA down to 50.
    Do a full set of tests.
    If pH is still low, then it needs to be raised to around 7.2. (20 Mule Team Borax)
    Add bleach to match CYA level. If 50, you want it between 4 and 8. I'd try to add enough to reach 8 until you figure out how much chlorine they loose per day. You never want it to fall below 4.
    If their TA is really 250, their pH should drift up on its own. When it gets to 7.8, add enough Muriatic Acid to drop it to 7.2. As this cycle is repeated, the TA will drop.
    Daily tests will be FC, CC, and pH. Bleach will be a daily addition. Acid may be an occasional one. I have a high TA and need to add 1-2 times per week depending on the weather, if we had to top off the pool, and how much splashing was done. I retest my TA after every couple of acid additions as it does change how much acid is needed to drop the pH.

    The other tests can be done less frequently.
    ~~ Allison ~~
    Intex 18' x 48" Easy Set Pool, approximately 5455 gallons
    Krystal Clear 1500 GPH Filter Pump Model 56635EG - 635 with Auto Timer
    BBB FOR BEGINNERS ~ THIS IS A MUST READ FOR ANYONE OVERWHELMED!!

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    Re: Converting Neighbor to BBB

    I have them draining the entire pool and starting from scratch with BBB. However, I am concerned with their current liner. It's a 20mil overlap that is 3 years old. It's very faded and looks like its 15 years old. I assume it's from their water. I believe their water has been all outta whack for a year or more. Would it be wise for them to replace the liner?
    30'x54" Round Vogue Simbio AG ~21,000 gallons
    Pentair Sand Dollar SD 60 w/ Pentair Dynamo 1.5 hp Pump
    Vinyl Uni-Bead 25mil Liner
    Perfect Bottom w/cove
    Taylor K-2005 & K-2006 Test Kit

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    Re: Converting Neighbor to BBB

    Quote Originally Posted by Shawdaddy1972
    I have them draining the entire pool and starting from scratch with BBB. However, I am concerned with their current liner. It's a 20mil overlap that is 3 years old. It's very faded and looks like its 15 years old. I assume it's from their water. I believe their water has been all outta whack for a year or more. Would it be wise for them to replace the liner?
    Especially if their liner is old, do not drain the pool all the way at one time! It can be very stiff and not go back into place, etc. Smaller drain and refills would be better.

    As to a new liner, if it doesn't leak and it doesn't bother them I would keep it. If you do end up draining all of the water, that would be the time to change it though.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Converting Neighbor to BBB

    Draining the entire pool at once may necessitate a new liner.

    I would certainly not want them to drain the pool and then the liner fails and they blame you.

    See if they are receptive to a new liner, and make them aware that draining more than 50% at a time may result in liner damage.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Converting Neighbor to BBB

    Well the idea when I left last night was to drain 50%(about 2 feet). I guess they left it draining over night. They called me this morning and told me only about a foot of water was left in the pool So he drained it all the way out........The owner is wanting to pull the liner back to fix a few holes/mole trench under the liner....So I told him to get a new liner, but they are rather frugle They have more money than they know what to do with, they just want to cut corners So I will recommend a new liner
    30'x54" Round Vogue Simbio AG ~21,000 gallons
    Pentair Sand Dollar SD 60 w/ Pentair Dynamo 1.5 hp Pump
    Vinyl Uni-Bead 25mil Liner
    Perfect Bottom w/cove
    Taylor K-2005 & K-2006 Test Kit

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    Re: Converting Neighbor to BBB

    Quote Originally Posted by linen
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawdaddy1972
    I have them draining the entire pool and starting from scratch with BBB. However, I am concerned with their current liner. It's a 20mil overlap that is 3 years old. It's very faded and looks like its 15 years old. I assume it's from their water. I believe their water has been all outta whack for a year or more. Would it be wise for them to replace the liner?
    Especially if their liner is old, do not drain the pool all the way at one time! It can be very stiff and not go back into place, etc. Smaller drain and refills would be better.

    As to a new liner, if it doesn't leak and it doesn't bother them I would keep it. If you do end up draining all of the water, that would be the time to change it though.
    The liner we put in about 3 years ago.....but due to the water it looks like it's 15. It's almost white...it's bleached so bad
    30'x54" Round Vogue Simbio AG ~21,000 gallons
    Pentair Sand Dollar SD 60 w/ Pentair Dynamo 1.5 hp Pump
    Vinyl Uni-Bead 25mil Liner
    Perfect Bottom w/cove
    Taylor K-2005 & K-2006 Test Kit

  20. Back To Top    #20
    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Converting Neighbor to BBB

    Quote Originally Posted by Shawdaddy1972
    The liner we put in about 3 years ago.....but due to the water it looks like it's 15. It's almost white...it's bleached so bad
    That could be caused by long periods of low ph (like that caused by using trichlor pucks or dichlor granuales and not adjusting the ph back up).
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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