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Thread: water bugs

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    water bugs

    how do you get rid of those annoying little black water bugs?
    hamm2988; 24 ft round above ground; 17500 gal; 1 1/2 hp sand filter.

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    x2rider's Avatar
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    water bugs

    I haven't. Noticed any since I got mine right with bbb, but you could bring chlorine up to shock level, and see if that kills em
    27000 gal 18x36 rectangle In-Ground built in 1978
    Vinyl liner, 3/4hp Hayward Super pump, single speed 3450rpm
    SWG: Hayward Aquarite AQR15
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    K-2006 Test kit

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    aa62579's Avatar
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    Re: water bugs

    I've had them both years at some point. I call them back swimmers. They don't get caught in the skimmer or leaf rake. Found a solution that is cheap and working pretty well this year. I purchased a cheap minnow net and keep it attached to the ladder. Each time I am in the pool, I use it if I see any. It is small enough that I can sweep it through the water fast enough to catch them. Getting rid of them one by one. The minnow net also works great for tiny ants and other bugs that elude the skimmer and filter.
    ~~ Allison ~~
    Intex 18' x 48" Easy Set Pool, approximately 5455 gallons
    Krystal Clear 1500 GPH Filter Pump Model 56635EG - 635 with Auto Timer
    BBB FOR BEGINNERS ~ THIS IS A MUST READ FOR ANYONE OVERWHELMED!!

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    Re: water bugs

    Won't 50ppm of borates control bugs?

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    Re: water bugs

    I have an Intex UltraFrame 48"x18' saltwater above ground pool and had constant water bug problems, my kids were hunting them for sport, they were clogging up the return mesh on the pump intake at the pool wall. Did some research, said that they live on Algae, even stuff that you cannot see. That I needed to get my PH and Chlorine right, then deal with the algae. So I shocked it twice, got the chlorine up to 2.0, and my PH was low, got it up to the right range (forget the number), then ran the auto vacuum twice and brushed the pool walls and bottom really well and added 6 ounces of HTH Algae Guard 3x Concentrate. We've gone 2 days now without seeing a single water bug. The directions said add 8 ounces per 7500 gallons, our pool is 6400, so 6 was a close guess.

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    Re: water bugs

    just started noticing the backswimmers today. water temps have been close to 90. 16.5K gallon salt pool. levels seem in range and water is crystal clear.

    FC - 3.0-3.5
    PH - 7.5
    ALK - 100

    i'm hesitant to do anything to upset the balance. i don't see any algae but it's a dark/pebbletec so who knows. anyone?

    thanks

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    Re: water bugs

    Quote Originally Posted by zenlen View Post
    FC - 3.0-3.5
    PH - 7.5
    ALK - 100

    i'm hesitant to do anything to upset the balance. i don't see any algae but it's a dark/pebbletec so who knows. anyone?
    What is the CYA level? The FC level means absolutely nothing by itself. Your 3.0 FC level may not be sufficient to prevent algae growth if your CYA level were above 40 ppm.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    Re: water bugs

    Quote Originally Posted by chem geek View Post
    What is the CYA level? The FC level means absolutely nothing by itself. Your 3.0 FC level may not be sufficient to prevent algae growth if your CYA level were above 40 ppm.
    Thank you for your response chem geek
    I apologize for missing that part of the formula - had a bit too many by the pool yesterday

    You're right - The cya is 50. I tested twice just to make sure.

    I set the SWG higher, ran the pump all night and guess we'll see what happens. I could just add chlorine if you think that would be better.

    It's been pretty hot here in norcal and i think there were a few days where the FC was down below 2. I was getting to cocky with trying to run the FC level lower than last year when i kept it around 5 and had zero issues.

    There is no visible algae and the water is crystal but i know that there must be something going on so you're help, as always, is very much appreciated.


    len

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    pwrstrk's Avatar
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    water bugs

    With your SWG I would get your CYA level up to 70-80 ppm. You'll get better protection for your FC from burn off from the sun.
    CYA 70. FC level of 3 is min. Target 5-6.
    CYA 80. FC level of 4 is min. Target 6-7.
    If you could add all your pool, equipment and location info to your sig, it will help us help you better. 😎
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    Re: water bugs

    Quote Originally Posted by pwrstrk View Post
    With your SWG I would get your CYA level up to 70-80 ppm. You'll get better protection for your FC from burn off from the sun.
    CYA 70. FC level of 3 is min. Target 5-6.
    CYA 80. FC level of 4 is min. Target 6-7.
    If you could add all your pool, equipment and location info to your sig, it will help us help you better. ��
    I updated my sig. as suggested. I brushed the pool again too although I do brush it down twice a week as well as check chems 2x a week.

    At this point should i continue to raise the chlorine level (it's at 5.5 right now) until the bugs are dead or should I just return to normal swg %, add some CYA and keep the chlorine around 5?

    thanks again.
    Last edited by zenlen; 07-13-2014 at 12:55 PM. Reason: sig not showing up...
    16.5K Pebbletec. Jandy 1.5 epump. Nature 2 Fusion Soft SWG. Polaris 280 w booster pump.

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    pwrstrk's Avatar
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    Re: water bugs

    I would just maintain your FC level where it is now and bring your CYA level to 70. If you would like you can take it up in steps, 60 then 70. Just remember it will take up to a week to fully register on test.
    Use Pool Math to figure out how much stabilizer to add.
    Jeff
    24'x54" AG Morada RTR (by wilbar) 13'500 gal. Hayward Powerflo Matrix 1hp 2 speed. Hayward Perflex EC65 DE filter.

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    Re: water bugs

    right on. i'll do it in steps, catch the bugs with our fish net if they bug me and hope for the best.

    thanks again
    16.5K Pebbletec. Jandy 1.5 epump. Nature 2 Fusion Soft SWG. Polaris 280 w booster pump.

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    Re: water bugs

    Note that my calculation was for a non-SWG pool. In theory your 3 ppm FC should have been OK with 50 ppm CYA in a SWG pool, but as Jeff noted a higher CYA with higher FC target should let you lower the SWG on-time and also should reduce the rate of pH rise in the pool (due to the SWG not being on as long).
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    Re: water bugs

    thanks again chem geek and pwrstrk - i really appreciate the support and value your opinions.

    i decided to raise the cya to 60 and have a target fc of 5 - which is where i had it last year with no bug issues - as i said, the fc dropped below 2 for a few days when i got cocky about having a lower fc. i noticed it and just let it go. it hasn't been above 3 until today (it's been about a month). so i'm thinking my lack of experience and ego led me to try and get away with an fc below 3 not realizing what might happen. i actually think i might have been right on the verge of my first algae bloom considering water temps can top 90 with outside temps above 100 - plus the pool is in full sun all day. thursday there was one or two backswimmers and last night there was at least 50. i caught a bunch and today there is a lot less.

    ya'll saved my bacon. thanks again.
    16.5K Pebbletec. Jandy 1.5 epump. Nature 2 Fusion Soft SWG. Polaris 280 w booster pump.

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    Re: water bugs

    ended up with the FC around 7 for 2 days but it did the trick. reviewing the TFP recommended balance for SWG. Thanks again ya'll
    16.5K Pebbletec. Jandy 1.5 epump. Nature 2 Fusion Soft SWG. Polaris 280 w booster pump.

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    Re: water bugs

    ugh. bugs are back. started off with a few, now a lot.

    i broke down and bought the bioguard back-up. i was hesitant to try soap and figured the bugs must be eating something so maybe the algaecide will take care of the food source at the same time. well...happy to report it killed them in about 15 minutes. actually watched a few perish. the rest ended up in the skimmer. of course i was a dummy, listened to the pool kid and put in the whole bottle. then i read it and it treats 25K gallons! our pool is only 16.5K gallons. there's a sort of a hazy film on the surface now. gonna run the pump all night and see what happens. any ideas if it doesn't clear up? danka.

    zl

    thanks.
    Last edited by Casey; 07-24-2014 at 10:29 PM. Reason: cursing
    16.5K Pebbletec. Jandy 1.5 epump. Nature 2 Fusion Soft SWG. Polaris 280 w booster pump.

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    Re: water bugs

    BioGuard® Back Up® is ADBAC algaecide which is a linear quat so can foam. The only algaecide we recommend is Polyquat which is non-foaming and also doesn't break down as quickly by chlorine. Some people who have used 50 ppm Borates (say, from boric acid) report that the bugs don't like the water as much with it, possibly due to reduced surface tension on the water. Some people add some Dawn Soap to the surface of the water, but that won't last though does **** off the bugs.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    Re: water bugs

    Quote Originally Posted by chem geek View Post
    BioGuard® Back Up® is ADBAC algaecide which is a linear quat so can foam. The only algaecide we recommend is Polyquat which is non-foaming and also doesn't break down as quickly by chlorine. Some people who have used 50 ppm Borates (say, from boric acid) report that the bugs don't like the water as much with it, possibly due to reduced surface tension on the water. Some people add some Dawn Soap to the surface of the water, but that won't last though does **** off the bugs.
    thanks. wasn't enough to foam up. just made the water look a bit off color wise. it's still clear though. from what i am interpreting, the chlorine will break down the Back Up fairly quickly, then the water will be return to normal. then i'll add the borates and not have any bugs in the future.
    16.5K Pebbletec. Jandy 1.5 epump. Nature 2 Fusion Soft SWG. Polaris 280 w booster pump.

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    Re: water bugs

    Yes, the chlorine will get rid of that algaecide within a week or two. Polyquat more slowly breaks down so there's some there after several weeks. Anyway, the borates have helped for some, perhaps most people but I couldn't guarantee it. Probably depends specifically on the type of bug.
    16,000 gallon outdoor in-ground 16'x32' plaster pool; Pentair Intelliflo VF pump; Pentair IntelliTouch i9+3s control system; Jandy CL-340 square foot cartridge filter
    12 Fafco solar panels; Purex Triton PowerMax 250 natural gas heater (200,000 BTU/hr output); automatic electric pool safety cover; 4-wheel pressure-side "The Pool Cleaner"

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    Re: water bugs

    Hi. I'm back.

    Still having an issue with the backswimmers and the little black beetles they eat(?). I think there are a few boatmen too. Mostly backswimmers. Any help or advice is very much appreciated.

    Quick review: A few weeks ago I tested FC below 2. Water clear. Noticed bugs. Increased FC using only SWG. Still had bugs - mostly backswimmers. Posted on TFP. Raised CYA to 60. Raised FC to 7. Still had bugs. Put in a whole bottle of Bioguard Backup (2x my pool size). A lot of dead bugs/but algaecide colored water. Maintained FC levels 6+ ever since. Bugs returned. Tried 1/2 cup of dawn. More dead backswimmers, as many as the first time. Decided to shock.

    Shocking the pool: Day 7. The SWG helps out with maintaining during the day when I'm at work. I test before sunrise, mid afternoon and after sundown.

    We've been unsuccessful at passing the OCLT with about 2-4ppm loss. The water temp is hitting 90° so not sure if that matters.

    AM Results: (I brought back to somewhere over shock level from 19.5 last night before bed so I didn't do OCLT today)

    7am:
    FC=25
    CC=0
    Before I started shocking last week:
    PH: 7.5
    TA=100
    CH=220

    I cleaned inside the lights Wednesday but didn't see anything except some debris from construction (nice). I brush daily and skim out the bugs when I see them swimming but here is the weird part.
    I keep finding them dead in the skimmer basket in the mornings. There was 10-15 of them today. I'm not sure if they have a short lifespan or if I'm slowly killing off the food source so they starve or what.

    The water looks magnificent. I've cleaned the filters 2x even though they weren't visibly dirty. Ran the water feature for 24 hours at shock level too. But still they mock me with their upside down shenanigans

    My only guess is that the OCLT failure is due to organic contaminants either from the bugs it's possibly killing or the remainder of the algaecide/soap. I'm still at a loss as to the bugs though - I know we can't keep them out but it's getting frustrating. I have another bug product by lo-chlor called bug off on standby but I wanted to wait til things were back to normal before I consider dumping more unnecessary chemicals in the pool.

    Thanks for reading/listening.
    16.5K Pebbletec. Jandy 1.5 epump. Nature 2 Fusion Soft SWG. Polaris 280 w booster pump.

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