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Thread: On the right track?

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    On the right track?

    OK, a little history. I started shocking the pool on Wed night. I had not been able to catch up to the CL with the Digital Nano (over 70% and not maintaining CL). The pump runs at 20%, 21 hrs/day and 100% for 3. Should be chlorinating all day. Also suspected someone (wil remain nameless) did something in the pool they shouldn't have (put the p in pool). So, I decided to shock. OCLT showed a loss of 4ppm over Thur night, and 5.5 ppm last night. The water is clear, looks crystal clear during the day and no obvious signs of algae. At night, with the lights on, you can see very fine particulate matter in the water, and I have seen that in varying degrees since the pool was first filled in Oct. I have read and am following the combating algae directions. Test results:

    FC 14 (this morning after OCLT, will bring that up again)
    CC <.5 (never has been higher than .5)
    pH 7.8 (but affected by high FC levels, right?)
    T/A 100 (I know that's high, it's been a constant battle)
    CYA 40 (more below)
    CH 320
    Salt 3300
    Temp 78

    I know the CYA number is low, but it also cuts down on how much bleach I need right now. It has been a struggle to raise it. Maybe I am a little cautious, not wanting to overshoot, but I had the CYA at 70 3 weeks ago. There have been no significant water losses recently. I haven't pumped the pool level down due to rain, and the bucket test for leaks I ran several month ago was negative. My makeup rate is between 1/4 to 1/2" per day. Only some minor splash-out from the kids. Where is my CYA going? (Salt level is not dropping accoringly.

    Am I on the right track? Do I keep up the normal shock? How many days typically until the test is passed? Or, should I go for the mustad shock level or is there something I am missing?

    Again, this a great forum and I greatly appreciate all the helpful people on here.
    Pool: Inground gunite/plaster, 34'x12', 3.5' - 5.5' - 3.5', ~14,000 Gal, 420 SQFT, 87.5' Perimeter, Salt Water, Waterfall, Oklahoma flagstone. Equipment: Hayward V/S, 425 SQFT Cartridge filter, Pool Pilot Digital Nano http://www.troublefreepool.com/new-p...tx-t38458.html

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: On the right track?

    If it's ammonia you're going to have to keep at until it's all gone. Just keep it up.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
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    Re: On the right track?

    Update: Day 4+ (started Wed evening) Still at it. Had Cl at 20 last night. Left the Digital Nano in Boost overnight. Cl at 17 this morning. Not good, but better. Whatever this is in the pool is eating the Cl for breakfast. My garage looks like the laundry isle at Wal-Mart with all the bleach. Please tell me this gets better eventually!

    Looking back over my records (yes, I keep records of the weekly tests) it looks like I probably let the Cl get too low for the CYA. This must have built up over time. My final clue last week was turning up the SWG to 70% and still not maintaining CL.

    I know the pH test is affected by the high Cl. Should I keep adding acid at something like my normal rate, or leave it alone? The pH test never goes above 7.8. I know the TA is high, but I take it I should not worry about that now, just deal with it later.
    Pool: Inground gunite/plaster, 34'x12', 3.5' - 5.5' - 3.5', ~14,000 Gal, 420 SQFT, 87.5' Perimeter, Salt Water, Waterfall, Oklahoma flagstone. Equipment: Hayward V/S, 425 SQFT Cartridge filter, Pool Pilot Digital Nano http://www.troublefreepool.com/new-p...tx-t38458.html

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: On the right track?

    It gets a lot better soon. Keep after it.

    Deal with the pH after you're done with the process if shocking.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: On the right track?

    Well, seven days in and still at it. Lost 5 ppm overnight. Is this normal, even for a week into the shock process. Pool water still looks clear. Brushing every day. Is there anything else I am missing? I know I should leave the pH alone, but this seems like a long time to go without adjusting it. I'll probably clean the filter carts this weekend.
    Pool: Inground gunite/plaster, 34'x12', 3.5' - 5.5' - 3.5', ~14,000 Gal, 420 SQFT, 87.5' Perimeter, Salt Water, Waterfall, Oklahoma flagstone. Equipment: Hayward V/S, 425 SQFT Cartridge filter, Pool Pilot Digital Nano http://www.troublefreepool.com/new-p...tx-t38458.html

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: On the right track?

    A couple of weeks isn't out of the ordinary. If your FC gets down to 10 ppm you can check the pH.

    How often are you testing and bringing the FC back to shock level?
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: On the right track?

    I have been testing first thing in the morning (before sunrise) and again in the evening and adjusting at those times. I test in the evening after I add bleach to get a final level for the night before checking again in the morning. By staying a little above min shock level (like shock +4 or 5), and keeping the SWG in boost mode, I have been able to maintain above shock level most of the time. It did slip to 13 by the end of the day yesterday (I accidentally let the SWG go out of boost ). I figure when the overnight number climbs it will then be time to turn off the SWG and do an OCLT.

    One thing I have seen is the CC go down a bit. I have always been below 0.5 (always turns clear with one drop) but it is getting lighter pink recently. Is this possibly a sign I am making progress?
    Pool: Inground gunite/plaster, 34'x12', 3.5' - 5.5' - 3.5', ~14,000 Gal, 420 SQFT, 87.5' Perimeter, Salt Water, Waterfall, Oklahoma flagstone. Equipment: Hayward V/S, 425 SQFT Cartridge filter, Pool Pilot Digital Nano http://www.troublefreepool.com/new-p...tx-t38458.html

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: On the right track?

    Possibly but don't be surprised if it jumps around a bit toward the end.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    aa62579's Avatar
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    Re: On the right track?

    Have you retested your CYA lately. It didn't make sense for it to almost drop by half in 3 weeks without doing something intentional. If the 40 is wrong, you may not be getting up to the correct shock level.
    ~~ Allison ~~
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    Re: On the right track?

    Quote Originally Posted by aa62579
    Have you retested your CYA lately. It didn't make sense for it to almost drop by half in 3 weeks without doing something intentional. If the 40 is wrong, you may not be getting up to the correct shock level.
    aa62579,

    I had the same thought. Didn't believe the drop either. I tested the CYA at least three different times. All with the same result.

    Update: FC loss last night was 1! Of course, that was with the SWG in boost, but it is much better than the 4-5 I had been losing. Hopefully, that indicates progress.
    Pool: Inground gunite/plaster, 34'x12', 3.5' - 5.5' - 3.5', ~14,000 Gal, 420 SQFT, 87.5' Perimeter, Salt Water, Waterfall, Oklahoma flagstone. Equipment: Hayward V/S, 425 SQFT Cartridge filter, Pool Pilot Digital Nano http://www.troublefreepool.com/new-p...tx-t38458.html

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Re: On the right track?

    Day 14. Still losing Cl at a shocking (no pun intended) rate. Lost 8-9 or more over the day yesterday and 6.5 last night. I bumped the Cl level way up last night to 31, at 24.5 this morning. If my Cl drops to 14 at the end of the day, am I sliding backwards? This is making me double check and doubt everything I am doing. I test, treat go to work, test, treat, brush, test, sleep and do it all again. The pool is still clear. I have cleaned the filters checked all over the pool. I see no signs of growth. The LED lights appear to be screwed into the receptacles, so are sealed. The only stagnant place I can think of is the autofill well. I also had cleaned that and had treated it pretty heavily with Cl, just to make sure. What am I missing?

    I ordered refills on the Cl test and CYA reagents from TF Testkists today because I am going through the Cl chemicals quickly and I want to see if a different batch of CYA reagent gives me a different result.
    Pool: Inground gunite/plaster, 34'x12', 3.5' - 5.5' - 3.5', ~14,000 Gal, 420 SQFT, 87.5' Perimeter, Salt Water, Waterfall, Oklahoma flagstone. Equipment: Hayward V/S, 425 SQFT Cartridge filter, Pool Pilot Digital Nano http://www.troublefreepool.com/new-p...tx-t38458.html

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: On the right track?

    Keep the faith. I told you not to be surprised if it jumps around toward the end. One thing you can do is make sure you have cleaned out all the places that it could be in. Lights, ladders, steps, etc. Just keep it at shock level.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: On the right track?

    Update: Keeping the faith. It is now 3 weeks since beginning this process. FC loss last night was 0.5 (granted that was with the SWG running). Making progress, I hope. I have seen the numbers vary but they seem to be steadily getting smaller. Unfortunatley, CYA now measures at about 30. I will be gone for a few days, I know, not good timing. I am hoping the loss tonight passes OCLT (fingers crossed) and I can try to add CYA and stabilize the chemistry tomorrow. My plan is to put some pucks the builder left me in the floater while I'm gone and hopefully keep some CL in the pool. The question is, how many? I will also run a bucket test over three days to determine if we have a leak. The pool is about 10K gal and I have put in 8 lbs of CYA since it was built in Oct (excessive?). I did have to pump some water off this winter due to rain, so I expected some loss, but not this much.
    Pool: Inground gunite/plaster, 34'x12', 3.5' - 5.5' - 3.5', ~14,000 Gal, 420 SQFT, 87.5' Perimeter, Salt Water, Waterfall, Oklahoma flagstone. Equipment: Hayward V/S, 425 SQFT Cartridge filter, Pool Pilot Digital Nano http://www.troublefreepool.com/new-p...tx-t38458.html

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    Re: On the right track?

    Ok, came back yesterday from 3 1/2 days away, expecting to find a green monster. To my suprise it is still clear and the Cl was 9. (guess the pucks helped). Even better, I took the floater out and left the SWG at 100% overnight and Cl was 12.5 this morning. Progress! (My wife thinks it is because I gave the pool a break and stopped messing with it ) I'll run the OCLT tonight if the Cl levels are good when I get home tonight.

    Now the bad news, the pool lost a bunch of water. The bucket lost about 1 1/4", the pool lost about 2 3/8", best I can tell. In any case, the pool lost significantly more thatn the bucket over 4 days. This could start to explain my CYA loss. Excessive loss, correct?
    Pool: Inground gunite/plaster, 34'x12', 3.5' - 5.5' - 3.5', ~14,000 Gal, 420 SQFT, 87.5' Perimeter, Salt Water, Waterfall, Oklahoma flagstone. Equipment: Hayward V/S, 425 SQFT Cartridge filter, Pool Pilot Digital Nano http://www.troublefreepool.com/new-p...tx-t38458.html

  15. Back To Top    #15
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: On the right track?

    Anything past evaporation isn't good. You need to start trying to find that leak.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: On the right track?

    Bama,

    Thanks for the input. I have contacted the PB. They want me to run a bucket test with their directions (equipment off). Not sure what that proves except if the leak is in the actual envelope. Since I am still under warranty, I will do whatever.
    Pool: Inground gunite/plaster, 34'x12', 3.5' - 5.5' - 3.5', ~14,000 Gal, 420 SQFT, 87.5' Perimeter, Salt Water, Waterfall, Oklahoma flagstone. Equipment: Hayward V/S, 425 SQFT Cartridge filter, Pool Pilot Digital Nano http://www.troublefreepool.com/new-p...tx-t38458.html

  17. Back To Top    #17

    Re: On the right track?

    Did it! OCLT passed last night!

    Thanks for the help and especially the encouragement (especially Bama) and the knowledge gained on this board. There were times during this process (3+ weeks) were I was doubting the sanity, especially when you see all the bleach bottles, but it works.

    Now on to the suspected leak.
    Pool: Inground gunite/plaster, 34'x12', 3.5' - 5.5' - 3.5', ~14,000 Gal, 420 SQFT, 87.5' Perimeter, Salt Water, Waterfall, Oklahoma flagstone. Equipment: Hayward V/S, 425 SQFT Cartridge filter, Pool Pilot Digital Nano http://www.troublefreepool.com/new-p...tx-t38458.html

  18. Back To Top    #18
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: On the right track?

    Glad you passed!

    Since it's warranty, let the builder guide you but if you need help or encouragement we're here!
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

  19. Back To Top    #19

    Re: On the right track?

    Update. So far I have done 4 bucket tests. Three were with the pump off for 24 hours. The pool lost 3/8", 1/2" and 3/8" more than the bucket. The fourth test was run with the pump at max for 24 hours. The pool again lost 3/8". The idea was to isolate whether the potential leak was in the return piping or somewhere else. I think this proves it is somewhere else. Waiting for the next step. So far I don't see anything obvious or any external signs of a leak. I find it had to believe the ground here could absorb that much water each day and not show it somewhere.

    On the Cl front just had an interesting experience. I had the Cl stable, the SWCG was keeping CL at 7 for several days. I dropped the percentage by 10% to get closer to 5. The Cl came down to 5 and kept going, eventually winding up at 1.5, even with the SWCG in boost mode. Back to shocking. What I don't understand is, if I had sufficient Cl levels, why the sudden drop? I thought that should have prevented anything from getting started, and I was even on the high side of normal.
    Pool: Inground gunite/plaster, 34'x12', 3.5' - 5.5' - 3.5', ~14,000 Gal, 420 SQFT, 87.5' Perimeter, Salt Water, Waterfall, Oklahoma flagstone. Equipment: Hayward V/S, 425 SQFT Cartridge filter, Pool Pilot Digital Nano http://www.troublefreepool.com/new-p...tx-t38458.html

  20. Back To Top    #20

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    Re: On the right track?

    The short answer is that it probably shouldn't act that way. You should run an OCLT to see what the FC level does tonight. If you can create and hold a FC level in the pool with bleach then you would know that the SWG is the issue.

    Your original problem sounded a little abnormal. Can you confirm - your pool started with clear-ish water with no FC, you began shocking only to loose 10-15ppm everyday for about 3 weeks? That is a large chlorine load with no obvious cause.

    If that were my pool I'd be looking for an external source of contamination. Agricultural run off, ammonia truck spill, race horse urinating in swimming pool....

    Perhaps that source of contamination went away for a week and is now back? No way to tell from just 1 data point, but something to keep an eye out for.
    16K Gal Plaster | Compupool SWG | Intelliflow VF | TF-100

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