New to BBB - questions.

[Richard320]

Probably, if not higher. What you just posted would make a sample that was 25% reagent, not 50%. and 25% pool water.

 

[Jennica]

Yikes, looks like I'm back to draining and refilling tomorrow.

Is it really possible that the pool store was off by 140?

 

[linen]

Yes, if you poke around on the forums, you will find that pool stores get the cya test wrong more times then right.

 

[Jennica]

Yeah, I've read a bunch of posts saying that but I never dreamed they'd be off by that much. I did have algae at the end of last season so it's starting to make sense.

Ugh, the Pool Calculator says I need to drain another 58%.

Oh, well....gotta do what ya gotta do.

'Night all....and thanks!

 

[Bama Rambler]

Doing it the way you described above would result in a CYA of 180.

 

[aa62579]

I see where you got those instructions: http://www.troublefreepool.com/water-testing-instructions-on-one-page-t11306.html, but they don't make sense to me. They have you diluting the pool water/reagent mix 50/50 with tap water, and I have always believed (and what makes sense in my head) is that you would dilute the pool water sample 50/50 with tap water and then mix with an equal amount of reagent. Hopefully someone can clarify this, but I think those instructions may be flawed.



However, that being said, you would need to double the results. I don't think it is worded clearly, but you should go by the instructions above it.

For CYA >90ppm:
Mix sample as above then cut 50/50 with filtered tap water; do the black-dot test, and double the reading.
OR, mix a smaller sample to begin with:
a) Measure 4ml R-0013 into the mixing bottle.
b) Measure 4ml pool water into the mixing bottle.
c) Measure 8ml tap water into the mixing bottle.
d) Continue from step 3 above.

**And to clarify - I think the test instructions suggest you should double, but I the test instructions are wrong to begin with. Not even sure if tripling the result would be accurate.

 

[Jennica]

Thanks Allison.

The second part of that paragraph says:

OR, mix a smaller sample to begin with:
a) Measure 4ml R-0013 into the mixing bottle.
b) Measure 4ml pool water into the mixing bottle.
c) Measure 8ml tap water into the mixing bottle.
d) Continue from step 3 above.

Maybe there should be a:

e) Double the result?



I'm in the refilling process now. I can't wait to get this done. I wish the filling part was quicker. I can drain 6 inches in about 30 minutes but the refill takes 4 hours.

 

[aa62579]

Thanks Allison.

The second part of that paragraph says:

OR, mix a smaller sample to begin with:
a) Measure 4ml R-0013 into the mixing bottle.
b) Measure 4ml pool water into the mixing bottle.
c) Measure 8ml tap water into the mixing bottle.
d) Continue from step 3 above.

Maybe there should be a:

e) Double the result?



I'm in the refilling process now. I can't wait to get this done. I wish the filling part was quicker. I can drain 6 inches in about 30 minutes but the refill takes 4 hours.

Except for I think it should be more like TRIPLE the result since that has your ratio of pool water to tap water as 1:2 instead of 1:1. (I just don't know if that is enough reagent for a true result or if your reagent needs to be 1:1 to match your water sample mix. This has it as 1 part regent to 3 parts water.

 

[linen]

Thanks Allison.

The second part of that paragraph says:

OR, mix a smaller sample to begin with:
a) Measure 4ml R-0013 into the mixing bottle.
b) Measure 4ml pool water into the mixing bottle.
c) Measure 8ml tap water into the mixing bottle.
d) Continue from step 3 above.

Maybe there should be a:

e) Double the result?



I'm in the refilling process now. I can't wait to get this done. I wish the filling part was quicker. I can drain 6 inches in about 30 minutes but the refill takes 4 hours.

Except for I think it should be more like TRIPLE the result since that has your ratio of pool water to tap water as 1:2 instead of 1:1. (I just don't know if that is enough reagent for a true result or if your reagent needs to be 1:1 to match your water sample mix. This has it as 1 part regent to 3 parts water.

Linen edit...this post of mine is wrong
Without the dilution, the test is 1:1 (1 part pool water to 1 part R-0013) making the percent pool water 50%. When Allison did the process as mentioned above, the ratio is 1:3 (1 part pool water, 3 parts R-0013EDIT:should be 3 parts not pool water since it is not all the R-0013) making the percent pool water 25%. Since 25% is half of 50%, the multiplication factor of 2 is correct.

 

[Jennica]

Maybe I should start from scratch. I plan on testing it again after 12 inches has been replaced. How exactly should I perform the test? TIA!

 

[linen]

Linen edit...this post of mine is wrong, the method in the quote below is not the same as the one in teh extended test kit directions
The method in your posted here is fine for high cya (over 90 ppm) and yes you do step e for this method:

Thanks Allison.

The second part of that paragraph says:

OR, mix a smaller sample to begin with:
a) Measure 4ml R-0013 into the mixing bottle.
b) Measure 4ml pool water into the mixing bottle.
c) Measure 8ml tap water into the mixing bottle.
d) Continue from step 3 above.

Maybe there should be a:

e) Double the result?



I'm in the refilling process now. I can't wait to get this done. I wish the filling part was quicker. I can drain 6 inches in about 30 minutes but the refill takes 4 hours.

Once you believe you have your cya under 90 ppm then testing using the 1:1 method (1 part pool water to 1 part R-0013) is appropriate and you would read the result directly with no multiplication factor (no step e and no step c).

Here are the cya extended test kit instructions to help clarify.

 

[aa62579]

Thanks Allison.

The second part of that paragraph says:

OR, mix a smaller sample to begin with:
a) Measure 4ml R-0013 into the mixing bottle.
b) Measure 4ml pool water into the mixing bottle.
c) Measure 8ml tap water into the mixing bottle.
d) Continue from step 3 above.

Maybe there should be a:

e) Double the result?



I'm in the refilling process now. I can't wait to get this done. I wish the filling part was quicker. I can drain 6 inches in about 30 minutes but the refill takes 4 hours.

Except for I think it should be more like TRIPLE the result since that has your ratio of pool water to tap water as 1:2 instead of 1:1. (I just don't know if that is enough reagent for a true result or if your reagent needs to be 1:1 to match your water sample mix. This has it as 1 part regent to 3 parts water.

Without the dilution, the test is 1:1 (1 part pool water to 1 part R-0013) making the percent pool water 50%. When Allison did the process as mentioned above, the ratio is 1:3 (1 part pool water, 3 parts R-0013) making the percent pool water 25%. Since 25% is half of 50%, the multiplication factor of 2 is correct.

This doesn't make sense to me. It would be 1 part pool water, 2 parts tap water, 1 part reagent - or 3 parts water to 1 part reagent. Your reagent and water sample should be the same amount.

My thinking matches what is on the Taylor website. Your water sample (be it 100% pool water or 50% pool water, 50% tap water (1:1)or 33.3% pool water, 66.7% tap water(1:2)) should be the same amount as the reagent to perform the test accurately. To figure out how much to multiply by, you look at your water mix. 100% pool water = multiply by 1, 50% pool water = multiply by 2, 33% pool water = multiply by 3, etc.

From http://www.taylortechnologies.com/ChemistryTopicsCM.ASP?ContentID=36
"If the dot disappears even before the liquid level reaches the maximum value on the scale provided, a second test is in order. Perform a 1:1 dilution to double the test range, then continue with the test procedure normally:

Rinse and fill the CYA dispensing bottle to the indicated mark with sample water.

Add the same amount of tap water. (For instance, if you filled the dispensing bottle to 7 mL with pool water, add enough tap water to bring the volume up to the 14 mL mark.) Cap and mix thoroughly.

Uncap and pour off half of the sample volume (in our example you’ll be back down to the 7 mL mark).

As specified, add the Cyanuric Acid Reagent to the remaining sample water in the dispensing bottle. Cap and mix gently for 30 seconds. The sample will turn cloudy.

Slowly transfer the cloudy solution to the graduated vial provided. View from the top while filling.

Stop when the black dot on the bottom of the vial disappears from sight.

Check the liquid level with the closest measurement mark on the graduated vial.

Multiply this reading by 2 for the true concentration. If the maximum value on the scale provided was 100 ppm, in this way you can read up to 200 ppm CYA. "

 

[aa62579]

Looking back over other forums and websites, I am even more certain I am thinking correctly.

From the thread: http://www.troublefreepool.com/cya-test-dilution-t9018.html

First, welcome to the forum!!

Secondly, the dilution method you used was close but not quite correct. Use 1/4 tap water, 1/4 pool water and 1/2 reagent.

 

[aa62579]

The method in your posted here is fine for high cya (over 90 ppm) and yes you do step e for this method:

Thanks Allison.

The second part of that paragraph says:

OR, mix a smaller sample to begin with:
a) Measure 4ml R-0013 into the mixing bottle.
b) Measure 4ml pool water into the mixing bottle.
c) Measure 8ml tap water into the mixing bottle.
d) Continue from step 3 above.

Maybe there should be a:

e) Double the result?



I'm in the refilling process now. I can't wait to get this done. I wish the filling part was quicker. I can drain 6 inches in about 30 minutes but the refill takes 4 hours.

Once you believe you have your cya under 90 ppm then testing using the 1:1 method (1 part pool water to 1 part R-0013) is appropriate and you would read the result directly with no multiplication factor (no step e and no step c).

Here are the cya extended test kit instructions to help clarify.

If you will notice, what is listed above (the 4 reagent/4 pool water/8 tap water) does not match the extended test directions you linked to. They are correct and match Taylor.

"If your CYA level is 90 or higher, repeat the test adjusting the procedure as follows:
Fill the mixing bottle to the lower mark with pool water.
Continue filling the mixing bottle to the upper mark with tap water.
Shake briefly to mix.
Pour off half of the contents of the mixing bottle, so it is again filled to the lower mark.
Continue the test normally from step 3, but multiply the final result by two."

 

[linen]

The method in your posted here is fine for high cya (over 90 ppm) and yes you do step e for this method:

Thanks Allison.

The second part of that paragraph says:

OR, mix a smaller sample to begin with:
a) Measure 4ml R-0013 into the mixing bottle.
b) Measure 4ml pool water into the mixing bottle.
c) Measure 8ml tap water into the mixing bottle.
d) Continue from step 3 above.

Maybe there should be a:

e) Double the result?



I'm in the refilling process now. I can't wait to get this done. I wish the filling part was quicker. I can drain 6 inches in about 30 minutes but the refill takes 4 hours.

Once you believe you have your cya under 90 ppm then testing using the 1:1 method (1 part pool water to 1 part R-0013) is appropriate and you would read the result directly with no multiplication factor (no step e and no step c).

Here are the cya extended test kit instructions to help clarify.

If you will notice, what is listed above (the 4 reagent/4 pool water/8 tap water) does not match the extended test directions you linked to. They are correct and match Taylor.

"If your CYA level is 90 or higher, repeat the test adjusting the procedure as follows:
Fill the mixing bottle to the lower mark with pool water.
Continue filling the mixing bottle to the upper mark with tap water.
Shake briefly to mix.
Pour off half of the contents of the mixing bottle, so it is again filled to the lower mark.
Continue the test normally from step 3, but multiply the final result by two."

Allison, I think you are right on this...I am checking now. The two procedures indeed appear to be different. Thanks.

@Jennica...where did you get the instructions you posted?

 

[aa62579]

Allison, I think you are right on this...I am checking now. The two procedures indeed appear to be different. Thanks.

@Jennica...where did you get the instructions you posted?

Thanks. I don't mean to be argumentative, but they are different procedures and I don't understand how they would give you the same result. I believe the Extended Pool Directions and the Taylor website are correct.

I believe 1 is incorrect and 2 is correct - ratio is important, not volume.

1) (4ml pool water + 4ml reagent) + 8ml tap water = 25% reagent
2) (4ml pool water + 4ml tap water) + 8ml reagent = 50% reagent

Here is where the OP got their instructions. http://www.troublefreepool.com/water-testing-instructions-on-one-page-t11306.html

 

[Jennica]

Yes, that's where I got it. So, to be clear.....I should do this method?

Rinse and fill the CYA dispensing bottle to the indicated mark with sample water.
Add the same amount of tap water. (For instance, if you filled the dispensing bottle to 7 mL with pool water, add enough tap water to bring the volume up to the 14 mL mark.) Cap and mix thoroughly.
Uncap and pour off half of the sample volume (in our example you’ll be back down to the 7 mL mark).
As specified, add the Cyanuric Acid Reagent to the remaining sample water in the dispensing bottle. Cap and mix gently for 30 seconds. The sample will turn cloudy.
Slowly transfer the cloudy solution to the graduated vial provided. View from the top while filling.
Stop when the black dot on the bottom of the vial disappears from sight.
Check the liquid level with the closest measurement mark on the graduated vial.
Multiply this reading by 2 for the true concentration. If the maximum value on the scale provided was 100 ppm, in this way you can read up to 200 ppm CYA.

 

[linen]

Thanks. I don't mean to be argumentative, but they are different procedures and I don't understand how they would give you the same result.

@ Allison: Your are not being argumentative at all, you were right in highlighting the confusion

Hopefully I will have some feedback soon and we can clarify this thread, and hopefully standardize/correct the dilution instructions on the site.

Again, thanks for all your help!

 

[aa62579]

Yes, that's where I got it. So, to be clear.....I should do this method?

Rinse and fill the CYA dispensing bottle to the indicated mark with sample water.
Add the same amount of tap water. (For instance, if you filled the dispensing bottle to 7 mL with pool water, add enough tap water to bring the volume up to the 14 mL mark.) Cap and mix thoroughly.
Uncap and pour off half of the sample volume (in our example you’ll be back down to the 7 mL mark).
As specified, add the Cyanuric Acid Reagent to the remaining sample water in the dispensing bottle. Cap and mix gently for 30 seconds. The sample will turn cloudy.
Slowly transfer the cloudy solution to the graduated vial provided. View from the top while filling.
Stop when the black dot on the bottom of the vial disappears from sight.
Check the liquid level with the closest measurement mark on the graduated vial.
Multiply this reading by 2 for the true concentration. If the maximum value on the scale provided was 100 ppm, in this way you can read up to 200 ppm CYA.

This matches the Extended Test Directions from this site and the Taylor site. It also makes sense in my head as to how you would do it.

 

[linen]

I'm with Allison, that is how I do it.