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Thread: 2 gallons of clarifier, now chlorine won't take.

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    2 gallons of clarifier, now chlorine won't take.

    I tried to cheat, now I pay the price.

    Essentially I was doing fine about 4-5 days in with a DE filter, beat the algae battle and was trying to rush opening by a few days. FC was fine overnight and I was going after the "dust" in the water.

    I added 2 gallons of Swimsoft C, clarifier which has helped elminate the "long tail" effects to get to crystal clear water yesterday. It did the trick. The water looks pristine and I'm just vacuuming up small white particles, which are essentially gone.

    The problem is that now I cannot get Chlorine (liquid 6% bleach) to take. I have attempted to add a full 182 oz bottle and within 10 mins, FC and CC is essentially zero.

    I have attempted (using the poolcalculator) to go to 10ppm and 15ppm levels (which are shock levels) and the chlorine just vaporizes.

    I suspect that I have too much clarifier, it's combining with the chlorine and it's gone. So now I don't know if I wait for the clarifier to burn off (days?) or if I go crazy on the Chlorine?

    The water is crystal clear, Filter is running nice and strong. everyone is clamoring to go swimming, but I won't release them until I can re-stabalize the FC/CC.

    Pool size: 10,000 gallons/vinal

    Current chem:

    FC <1
    CC <1
    pH 7.2
    TA 80
    CH < 100
    CYA 40
    10K gal, in-ground, vinyl, 1.0 HP pump, Hayward DE Filter

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: 2 gallons of clarifier, now chlorine won't take.

    Whatever it is, clarifier, algae, ammonia, the solution is more chlorine.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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  3. Back To Top    #3

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    Re: 2 gallons of clarifier, now chlorine won't take.

    I just added EIGHT 182oz bottles and no change. Tested after every 3. Lots of oxidizing visible in the pool light, so I have to imagine it's combining with the Clarifier.
    10K gal, in-ground, vinyl, 1.0 HP pump, Hayward DE Filter

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    Isaac-1's Avatar
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    Re: 2 gallons of clarifier, now chlorine won't take.

    Are you sure your chlorine test kit is good?, not old, been exposed to freezing etc?
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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  5. Back To Top    #5

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    Re: 2 gallons of clarifier, now chlorine won't take.

    They are strips, they are brand new and they were working fine right up to adding the clarifier. I am starting to suspect that the clarifier is nullifying the chlorine tests. Which pretty much means I have a summers worth of chlorine in my pool now...

    It's crystal clear.
    10K gal, in-ground, vinyl, 1.0 HP pump, Hayward DE Filter

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: 2 gallons of clarifier, now chlorine won't take.

    Quote Originally Posted by dfmcapecod
    They are strips, they are brand new and they were working fine right up to adding the clarifier. I am starting to suspect that the clarifier is nullifying the chlorine tests. Which pretty much means I have a summers worth of chlorine in my pool now...

    It's crystal clear.
    AHA! We have a clue!


    That clarifier seems to be hydrogen peroxide, and with the amount of bleach you've added.... you've bleached all the color out of the test strips! One more reason we recommend drop tests instead of strips.
    16K freeform gunite with spa; Pentair 4000 DE filter; Century Whisperflow 1 HP; Pentair Minimax heater.
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    Re: 2 gallons of clarifier, now chlorine won't take.

    Yes, the clarifier is hydrogen peroxide.

    And no, I was getting those strip results the moment I added the clarifier. Before I starting going hogwild on the bleach attempting to restore FC.

    I have a drop test kit and will test with that now.

    I just have not read anything about clarifier nullifying a FC/CC test... I did search, I didn't find. So if anyone can explain that, I'd love to finish the mystery.

    Now I believe I have over chlorinating my pool and now risk damaging my liner. Awesome.
    10K gal, in-ground, vinyl, 1.0 HP pump, Hayward DE Filter

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    Re: 2 gallons of clarifier, now chlorine won't take.

    No luck sherlock.

    The drop test reveals 0.2 or trace FC.

    Back to the whiteboard.
    10K gal, in-ground, vinyl, 1.0 HP pump, Hayward DE Filter

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    Re: 2 gallons of clarifier, now chlorine won't take.

    Which kind of drop based kit, high levels will bleach out a DPD color matching kit also, only FAS-DPD can measure high levels of chlorine, OTO can test for the presense of high levels of chlorine, but you can't measure the exact amount as anything over about 5 ppm will look some shade of orange.
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
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  10. Back To Top    #10

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    Re: 2 gallons of clarifier, now chlorine won't take.

    OTO.

    Color is showing the lowest possible reading. .2
    10K gal, in-ground, vinyl, 1.0 HP pump, Hayward DE Filter

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    Re: 2 gallons of clarifier, now chlorine won't take.

    At this point you may want to let things settle over night, then retest in the morning (test both pH and Chlorine) and adjust from there.
    Indoor 20x40 35,000 gallon vinyl pool with 1.5 HP 2 speed Jandy FloPro pump, Hayward EC75 Perflex DE filter, 11 4x12 Techno-Solis solar panels w/ Aquasolar controller, Aquabot Turbo T Robot Cleaner. Also LMI metering chlorine dispenser pump and HotSpring Jetsetter
    I use and endorse TFtestKits TF-100 from http://tftestkits.net
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    Re: 2 gallons of clarifier, now chlorine won't take.

    Agreed. If I had just applied some POP, I wouldn't be posting, but because I couldn't find an identical post describing what I'm going through I'm hoping this helps someone else weighing whether or not to leverage clarifier in a BBB setup.

    In hindsight already, I wish I had let the DE do it's thing for 2-3 more days and then added a much smaller portion if not zero clarifier.

    I think the answer is directly related to the softswim C clarifier combining with the Chlorine because my pool was already 85% clear and the 2 gallon treatment for 10,000 gallons was meant more for an algae battle opener than a maintainance treatment.

    Would need the chemist point of view on this.

    It still goes back to my initial question though, for someone else who finds themselves in this situation, will it be l"eave it alone for a few days (POP) or fight it with an abundance of chlorine.

    Will test again in the AM.
    10K gal, in-ground, vinyl, 1.0 HP pump, Hayward DE Filter

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    Re: 2 gallons of clarifier, now chlorine won't take.

    Quote Originally Posted by dfmcapecod
    It still goes back to my initial question though, for someone else who finds themselves in this situation, will it be l"eave it alone for a few days (POP) or fight it with an abundance of chlorine.
    I think it may have already been answered by JasonLion, but you need chlorine. Since as you put it "chlorine won't take", or to put it another way, the chlorine you are putting in is getting used up fast, you need to do the shocking process. See: http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-...king_your_pool

    Leaving the pool for a few days without measurable chlorine will almost guarantee that you will be fighting algae again. Either way chlorine is the answer, and you may have to hit it often to start with. If it reads zero after a half an hour dosing and circulation, redose to your shock level(and repeat, repeat , repeat, until you start to maintain)...poolcalculator gives me 15 ppm FC shock level for 40 ppm cya.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: 2 gallons of clarifier, now chlorine won't take.

    1) I had operated the pool for three days only losing chlorine with sun. Following that very process as I have for 4 seasons.
    2) I added 2 gallons of clarifier, (now 3 days ago) and still cannot get a shock to take or even register.
    3) Last night, I added EIGHT 182 oz jugs of bleach within 10 minutes, and still ZERO FC/CC readings.
    4) That was 6 hours ago.
    5) Those readings weren't taken within an hour, they were taken within 5 mins of the EIGHTH jug.
    6) Thats more than 4x the shock level

    This morning.

    1) the Pool remains absolutely crystal clear.
    2) Dumping THREE 182 oz jugs at the exact same time (tipping them all over at each outlet)
    3) This is 1.3 jugs more than the 15 ppm shock level
    4) Taking a drop (OTO) and strip test, it remains at essentially no FC/CC
    5) The tests weren't taken 30 or 60 mins later, they were taken in immediate succession

    In the last 12 hours alone, I have added 12 182 oz jugs. Registering nothing.

    Three different tests, 2 of them strips, one the OTO, same results.
    10K gal, in-ground, vinyl, 1.0 HP pump, Hayward DE Filter

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    Re: 2 gallons of clarifier, now chlorine won't take.

    The hydrogen peroxyde is destroying the chlorine. Until there's no more H2O2 in the water you'll get a near-0 chlorine reading.

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    Re: 2 gallons of clarifier, now chlorine won't take.

    OTO.
    Color is showing the lowest possible reading. .2
    I don't have an answer to your problem but we all need to get on the same page.

    1. Toss the strips. A strip test is virtually meaningless....too much chance for them to be bad.

    2. The OTO test does not measure in .2 increments. It is a comparator block (color matching) that matches varying intensities of yellow. Usually found with a pH test on the other side of the block and typically matches those shades of yellow from 1-3 or 1-5ppm.

    3. The FAS/DPD chlorine test uses 2 reagents...a powder that turns the sample pink and then a liquid (that is counted by drops) to turn the solution back to clear.

    How are you testing?
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Re: 2 gallons of clarifier, now chlorine won't take.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaOCl2
    The hydrogen peroxyde is destroying the chlorine. Until there's no more H2O2 in the water you'll get a near-0 chlorine reading.
    This is exactly what I believe is happening, I'm trying to figure out how much Chlorine I will need to add to eliminate the 2 gallons of H2O2.

    I was just trying to confirm that H202 will eat Chlorine for breakfast (combines/oxidizes) and it sounds like you're saying it does.
    10K gal, in-ground, vinyl, 1.0 HP pump, Hayward DE Filter

  18. Back To Top    #18

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    Re: 2 gallons of clarifier, now chlorine won't take.

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    OTO.
    Color is showing the lowest possible reading. .2
    I don't have an answer to your problem but we all need to get on the same page.

    1. Toss the strips. A strip test is virtually meaningless....too much chance for them to be bad.

    2. The OTO test does not measure in .2 increments. It is a comparator block (color matching) that matches varying intensities of yellow. Usually found with a pH test on the other side of the block and typically matches those shades of yellow from 1-3 or 1-5ppm.

    3. The FAS/DPD chlorine test uses 2 reagents...a powder that turns the sample pink and then a liquid (that is counted by drops) to turn the solution back to clear.

    How are you testing?
    Thanks Dave.

    The regeant is definitely OTO.
    The testing comparator does show the lowest possible shade of yellow as .2
    For all intents and purposes the water is clear, the drop test is definitely an OTO test.
    The comparator block is gradients from .2 to 5.
    10K gal, in-ground, vinyl, 1.0 HP pump, Hayward DE Filter

  19. Back To Top    #19

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    Re: 2 gallons of clarifier, now chlorine won't take.

    Thanks for the clarification. My bad for not realizing an OTO test is incremented that low. It certainly can't detect TC in those increments but now we no what you're testing with for sure.

    I have personally never experienced what you are going through with the clarifier. Like JasonLion and CaOCl2 have already said, the answer is simply more chlorine until it finally consumes everything. Swimsoft C should reimburse you or be "drawn and quartered"
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: 2 gallons of clarifier, now chlorine won't take.

    Thank you everyone, I did spend quite a bit of time seeing if this topic was covered and did not turn up a very detailed thread. I did believe that the competing oxidizers was my issue but was looking for the chemisty grade answer.

    A BBB approach and the Softswim ABC approach are two different systems and I was using the clarifier (the C from ABC) to deal with the long tail cloudiness that I can't seem to solve easily with the BBB approach.

    I did accept that yes, I would need to keep adding until I eventually overcame the clarifier, but wanted to make sure I wasn't insane as dumpped 4x, 5x the shock levels and saw it basically vaporized instantly.

    If at all possible, can anyone tell me how much chlorine will be required to eliminate 2 gallons of hydrogen peroxide that have been dilluted in 10,000 gallons of water?

    Otherwise I'll consider this solved and report back how much it takes for future readers.
    10K gal, in-ground, vinyl, 1.0 HP pump, Hayward DE Filter

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