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Thread: Question about Perma-Salt system

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    Question about Perma-Salt system

    Hello everyone I just found this site, and I could be on here for hours. My wife got talked into the Perma-Salt system from Backyard Leisure when we bought our pool from them last May. We were told that all we needed to do was add a bag of salt, get our PH, Alkalinity, and Calcium right. Adjust the Perma-Salt system to achieve a copper level of .3, and shock the pool every other week. We haven't had any problems with Algae or anything like that. But after reading about copper ionization systems, I'm now beginning to second guess my wife's "impulse buy." Should we be using a chlorine floater, or anything else other than the shock? I really want to convert over to the BBB maintenance system, but she is dead set against it. I just don't trust it after reading that all it is, is an algaecide. Any input is appreciated. I did take a sample to the pool store today and the results were as follows.

    PH 7.5
    TA 80
    CH 175
    Copper .4
    13,500 gallons AG 24' Round, Hayward Pro Series S180t Sand Filter 34 GPM, Hayward Power-Flow Matrix 1.5 hp Dual Speed Pump

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Question about Perma-Salt system

    Welcome to TFP!

    Far be it for me to get between you and your wife!

    We of course believe in our approach. It is also worth noting that a system like the perm salt system would be illegal to use on a public pool because there is no residual sanitizer.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: Question about Perma-Salt system

    You might save yourself a little time and use the Search function at the top right of the forum and search on Permasalt. As you guessed, it's a copper based system, not the same as a normal salt pool.
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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Question about Perma-Salt system

    Welcome

    +1 to what Jason said.

    Out of curiosity, what ***** (starts with an S and ends in a K with HOC in the middle ... kind of a bad word here since we use it as a VERB and not a NOUN) are you using weekly? That could be adding chlorine to your pool every week (along with other side effects).

    Am I correct in guessing you wife has had bad experiences with chlorine pools?

    Also realize that if the copper gets too high, you may start to see metal stains in your pool and green hair.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Question about Perma-Salt system

    Yes when I started getting concerned was when I used the search function and started reading about the Perma-Salt system. But I get what you are saying about shock. I am using Pro Team Zip Chlor which is Sodium dichloro-s-triazinetrione 97%. I add one pound per week or after heavy rain or heavy swimmer load.
    13,500 gallons AG 24' Round, Hayward Pro Series S180t Sand Filter 34 GPM, Hayward Power-Flow Matrix 1.5 hp Dual Speed Pump

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Question about Perma-Salt system

    So 1lb of dichlor will raise your FC by 4.9ppm and your CYA by 4.5ppm. The FC will be consumed, but the CYA remains.

    Adding this chlorine every week will help to kill anything that starts to grow; however, eventually the CYA will get higher and higher and a FC level of ~5ppm, will not be enough to kill the stuff and your pool will turn cloudy and/or green. The pool store will likely recommend adding even MORE dichlor, which will temporarily get the FC level up and maybe clear the pool ... but your also just raised your CYA even higher ... so the pool will once again turn cloudy/green. And this will repeat.

    Break the cycle sooner rather than later if you can.

    Even if you left the system in place ... Testing for your CYA levels and maintaining the correct FC level will ensure your pool stays clear and safe.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Question about Perma-Salt system

    I also noticed that your copper is at .4 ppm so you're right on the verge of staining if it hasn't already started.

    If anyone getting in the pool has light hair they'll notice their hair turning green first. But the number one problem is that the water isn't sanitary when there's no FC in it. Since you're only shocking once a week I bet the next day there's no FC in the pool.

    Not trying to beat you up here, and it's certainly your pool and you can do as you wish, but you should work on the sanitation.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
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    Re: Question about Perma-Salt system

    Oh I definately agree with all of you. Until I can talk the wife into discontinuing use of the Perma-Salt, do I just need to start adding bleach until I start having some residual? I want to get the test kit, but until I get her on board I'm not going to be able to order it.
    13,500 gallons AG 24' Round, Hayward Pro Series S180t Sand Filter 34 GPM, Hayward Power-Flow Matrix 1.5 hp Dual Speed Pump

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    Richard320's Avatar
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    Re: Question about Perma-Salt system

    Quote Originally Posted by tmcneil6
    Oh I definately agree with all of you. Until I can talk the wife into discontinuing use of the Perma-Salt, do I just need to start adding bleach until I start having some residual? I want to get the test kit, but until I get her on board I'm not going to be able to order it.
    Here's how to handle it.
    1) Let the wife handle the pool
    2) Stay out of it unless you want to get rashes, burning eyes, and green hair
    3) When the pool gets cloudy and green, fire her. Order a test kit. Do it right.

    This is what your pool will look like in about a month:

    This was at a hotel. People were standing in the pool, and you couldn't see their feet!
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    Re: Question about Perma-Salt system

    I have had a permasalt ionizer since 2008 and it has worked great. All I do is when I open my pool I get the salt content to about 1500 parts per million. I turn my permasalt to 4 for the first two weeks and then keep it on 2 for the rest of the year. I shock it every other week and use a clarifier every other week alternating weeks. It is not just a algaecide but also kills bacteria because it also puts a trace amount of silver in your water. I have gray hair and there's not enough copper in the water to turn my hair green . This is all that I do for the whole year and I have not had nothing but crystal clear water with no problems and no fuse. I haven't even tested my water since 2009.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Question about Perma-Salt system

    Quote Originally Posted by myvols2002
    I have had a permasalt ionizer since 2008 and it has worked great. All I do is when I open my pool I get the salt content to about 1500 parts per million. I turn my permasalt to 4 for the first two weeks and then keep it on 2 for the rest of the year. I shock it every other week and use a clarifier every other week alternating weeks. It is not just a algaecide but also kills bacteria because it also puts a trace amount of silver in your water. I have gray hair and there's not enough copper in the water to turn my hair green . This is all that I do for the whole year and I have not had nothing but crystal clear water with no problems and no fuse. I haven't even tested my water since 2009.
    For any newer members that may read this ... the TFP forum generally disagrees with everything in that statement.

    We try to teach a method that will work for 99+% of the pools out there, and this seems to be a rare exception. With proper chlorine levels, there is NEVER a need to "shock" or use clarifiers every week ... that is just added expense that is not needed. And adding any metals to the water (silver or copper) can lead to staining and is not an acceptable form of sanitation in the US. We recommend testing often to understand the pool's chemistry and make adjustments to keep the pool clear and safe for the equipment and swimmers.
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    Re: Question about Perma-Salt system

    Why not go BBB with a standard swcg? I don't see how adding products weekly is any easier than properly testing and adjusting a swcg.

    Personally I find testing and manually dosing to be simple enough. I've kept track of my results and form guesstimates in between tests, I test FC about 2-3 times a week. I test pH probably once a week and alkalinity every 2 weeks or so, calcium and CYA probably 3-4 times a season.
    Aaron
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