I've noticed that when I switch my electronic ignition H 250 on in the morning the first attempt to ignite fails. It actually fires up for 3-4 seconds and then goes off and restarts the lighting process with the clicking etc. It has yet to fail on the second try. I haven't received an IF failure code. Is it only a matter of time until I do, or is there nothing to worry about so long as it lights?
Hayward H250 no longer lights on first attempt
- Thread starter jonmar
- Start date
Could just be a little air bleeding out of the gas line, I wouldn't worry too much about it
Unless the gas line it breached in some way, how would air get into it?
Have you are someone looked at the burners to make sure there isn't something like a spider web in it? If not that, then I would suspect maybe the ignitor. Not only does it ignite the gas, it also senses flame. Could also be the gas valve starting to go out on it. Only way to tell for sure is to open it up and look at whats going on while it's trying to light.
Be careful working on any gas appliance.
Have you are someone looked at the burners to make sure there isn't something like a spider web in it? If not that, then I would suspect maybe the ignitor. Not only does it ignite the gas, it also senses flame. Could also be the gas valve starting to go out on it. Only way to tell for sure is to open it up and look at whats going on while it's trying to light.
Be careful working on any gas appliance.
ps0303 said:
As of today, it now lights on it's fourth attempt. It runs for about 5 seconds or so then shuts down. Is that more indicative of the spider web issue or a failing part?
There may be a control that measures the temperatures near the heat exchanger. If the temps don't come up the system resets. It is a safety feature. If the temps dont come up, it the system assumes the burners are not burning gas and dumping raw, unburied gas that could be explosive. Temp sensors fail frequently.
I googled the service guide: http://www.hayward-pool.com/pdf/manuals/manual183.pdf
http://www.hayward-pool.com/pdf/Parts Diagrams/H-Series - Millivolt-Electronic ED1 Style.pdf
It looks like you failing at step 4 in the Heating Mode section. I would have a certified technician look at this. It is a millivolt system. I thought it might have been a Hot Surface Ignotor but it looks to have a spark ignitor.
Sorry for the formatting its from the PDF.
HEATING MODE
The control continually compares the water temperature
with the set point and the high limit temperature. When
the water temperature is more than 1° below the set point
a call for heat is generated and a heating cycle is initiated.
1. The control checks for open contacts at the
blower prover switch.
2. The control energizes the blower at low speed
and the igniter. The igniter heat-up time is
approximately 20 seconds. The blower is running
a pre-purge cycle during this time.
3. The control checks for closed contacts at the
blower prover switch.
4. When the igniter reaches the proper temperature
a 4-second trial for ignition begins. The control
opens the gas valve and monitors flame current
The igniter is turned off when flame is sensed or
after 4 seconds.
5. If flame is sensed for more than 60 seconds the
control switches the blower to high speed.
6. The blower prover switch, the temperature limit
switches, the vent pressure switch, the water
pressure switch, the water temperature sensors,
and the flame sensor are constantly monitored
during a call for heat to assure the heater is
operating properly.
7. When the thermostat is satisfied and the call for
heat ends the control immediately de-energizes
the gas valve. Flame is extinguished.
8. The control operates the blower during a
30-second post-purge period.
FAILURE TO LIGHT: RETRY
If the first ignition attempt fails during a normal heating
cycle the control will make two (2) additional
ignition attempts:
1. The control de-energizes the gas valve after the
4-second ignition trial ends.
2. The control operates the blower during a
30-second post-purge period.
3. The control monitors for open contacts at the
blower prover switch.
4. The control performs a gas valve relay check.
5. A normal ignition sequence resumes with Item #2
in “Heating Mode” (above). If the third ignition trial
fails the control enters a safety lockout (or “hard”
lockout) after the post-purge period of the third
failed trial.
6. The error code “IF” is displayed and the
“SERVICE” indicator is illuminated.
a. The control automatically resets and clears the
“IF” error code without any user intervention after
60 minutes. If there is a call for heat after reset
the control will make three (3) trials for ignition. If
ignition is not established the control will again
enter safety lockout for 60 minutes. This cycle will
continue until ignition is established or the call for
heat is removed.
b. The user can reset the control and clear the
“IF” error code by pressing the “MODE” button to
move through “STANDBY” and return to the
previous mode (“SPA” or “POOL”).
LOSS OF FLAME: RECYCLE
If flame is established and then lost the control will make
ten (10) attempts at ignition. If flame is lost within ten
(10) seconds of ignition the control will respond within 2
seconds. If flame is lost more than ten (10) seconds
after ignition the control will respond within 0.8 seconds.
1. The control de-energizes the gas valve and the blower.
2. The control monitors for open contacts at the
blower prover switch.
3. The control performs a gas valve relay check.
4. A normal ignition sequence resumes with Item #2
in “Heating Mode” (above).
5. If the tenth ignition trial fails the control enters a
safety lockout (or “hard” lockout) after the postpurge
period of the tenth failed trial.
6. The error code “IF” is displayed and the
“SERVICE” indicator is illuminated.
a. The control automatically resets after 60 minutes.
If there is a call for heat after reset the control will
make three (3) trials for ignition. If ignition is not
established the control will again enter safety lock
out for 60 minutes. If flame is established but is lost
the control will make ten (10) attempts at ignition.
This cycle will continue until ignition is established
or the call for heat is removed.
b. The user can reset the control and clear the
“IF” error code by pressing the “MODE” button to
move through “STANDBY” and return to the
previous mode (“SPA” or “POOL”).
http://www.hayward-pool.com/pdf/Parts Diagrams/H-Series - Millivolt-Electronic ED1 Style.pdf
It looks like you failing at step 4 in the Heating Mode section. I would have a certified technician look at this. It is a millivolt system. I thought it might have been a Hot Surface Ignotor but it looks to have a spark ignitor.
Sorry for the formatting its from the PDF.
HEATING MODE
The control continually compares the water temperature
with the set point and the high limit temperature. When
the water temperature is more than 1° below the set point
a call for heat is generated and a heating cycle is initiated.
1. The control checks for open contacts at the
blower prover switch.
2. The control energizes the blower at low speed
and the igniter. The igniter heat-up time is
approximately 20 seconds. The blower is running
a pre-purge cycle during this time.
3. The control checks for closed contacts at the
blower prover switch.
4. When the igniter reaches the proper temperature
a 4-second trial for ignition begins. The control
opens the gas valve and monitors flame current
The igniter is turned off when flame is sensed or
after 4 seconds.
5. If flame is sensed for more than 60 seconds the
control switches the blower to high speed.
6. The blower prover switch, the temperature limit
switches, the vent pressure switch, the water
pressure switch, the water temperature sensors,
and the flame sensor are constantly monitored
during a call for heat to assure the heater is
operating properly.
7. When the thermostat is satisfied and the call for
heat ends the control immediately de-energizes
the gas valve. Flame is extinguished.
8. The control operates the blower during a
30-second post-purge period.
FAILURE TO LIGHT: RETRY
If the first ignition attempt fails during a normal heating
cycle the control will make two (2) additional
ignition attempts:
1. The control de-energizes the gas valve after the
4-second ignition trial ends.
2. The control operates the blower during a
30-second post-purge period.
3. The control monitors for open contacts at the
blower prover switch.
4. The control performs a gas valve relay check.
5. A normal ignition sequence resumes with Item #2
in “Heating Mode” (above). If the third ignition trial
fails the control enters a safety lockout (or “hard”
lockout) after the post-purge period of the third
failed trial.
6. The error code “IF” is displayed and the
“SERVICE” indicator is illuminated.
a. The control automatically resets and clears the
“IF” error code without any user intervention after
60 minutes. If there is a call for heat after reset
the control will make three (3) trials for ignition. If
ignition is not established the control will again
enter safety lockout for 60 minutes. This cycle will
continue until ignition is established or the call for
heat is removed.
b. The user can reset the control and clear the
“IF” error code by pressing the “MODE” button to
move through “STANDBY” and return to the
previous mode (“SPA” or “POOL”).
LOSS OF FLAME: RECYCLE
If flame is established and then lost the control will make
ten (10) attempts at ignition. If flame is lost within ten
(10) seconds of ignition the control will respond within 2
seconds. If flame is lost more than ten (10) seconds
after ignition the control will respond within 0.8 seconds.
1. The control de-energizes the gas valve and the blower.
2. The control monitors for open contacts at the
blower prover switch.
3. The control performs a gas valve relay check.
4. A normal ignition sequence resumes with Item #2
in “Heating Mode” (above).
5. If the tenth ignition trial fails the control enters a
safety lockout (or “hard” lockout) after the postpurge
period of the tenth failed trial.
6. The error code “IF” is displayed and the
“SERVICE” indicator is illuminated.
a. The control automatically resets after 60 minutes.
If there is a call for heat after reset the control will
make three (3) trials for ignition. If ignition is not
established the control will again enter safety lock
out for 60 minutes. If flame is established but is lost
the control will make ten (10) attempts at ignition.
This cycle will continue until ignition is established
or the call for heat is removed.
b. The user can reset the control and clear the
“IF” error code by pressing the “MODE” button to
move through “STANDBY” and return to the
previous mode (“SPA” or “POOL”).
jonmar said:
What is the exact model Hayward that you have? From your original post I can only guess it's an older ED2 style and isn't one of the newer models with a blower motor. If it is the older H 250, square cabinet and not rounded, then from my experience I would suspect the ignitor/flame sensor.
NOTE: When posting questions about various products please provide full make and model so you can get correct information on how to proceed. Not providing this can lead in an incorrect direction and cost you time, money, or worse.
ps0303 said:
I'll give as much info as I can. It is 3 years old. It is the Hayward H250 Lo-Nox, Natural Gas model. Electronic ignition, the corners are rounded with black plastic lining the edges. In any case, today it failed three times and for the first time I got the IF code. I turned it off and on and after two tries it stayed lit. It always lights, it just goes off after a few seconds.
In another thread I detailed a drip\leak I have with it as well. Today is also the first day the leak continues after the heater is operating. Normally it stops for 12-15 hours after the heater shuts off. Could these be related?
jonmar said:
I just took a look through the flame window and the flame was orange. Should it be blue?
If you have a leak and you are not sure where it's coming from, then you really should have someone look at it. You might be wasting your time trying to fix if the leak is in the heat exchanger or something like that.
The color of the flame could mean something but again, get someone who works on these units to look at it.
The color of the flame could mean something but again, get someone who works on these units to look at it.
Leak in heat exchanger = new unit in most cases. The cost of heat exchangers plus the labor in addition to the lower efficiency of an older unit usually means its not worth it. Even if the HE is under warranty for the part, the cost of taking the unit apart plus rebuilding plus the tune up to adjust for the new unit.
Your mileage may vary but I only sold a few warranty exchangers is over 10 of commercial and residential parts sales for the largest HVAC provider in North America
Your mileage may vary but I only sold a few warranty exchangers is over 10 of commercial and residential parts sales for the largest HVAC provider in North America
It wont stay lit at all today. The whoomph you heat at ignition sounds much louder and more 'forceful'. It stays lit for a bit longer, maybe 5-10 seconds and then goes out.
The "whoomph " is a larger than average ball of gas lighting. It is also known as an explosion. This one happened to stay inside the box.
Will the next one?
If it were me, I would shut the gas line off and call for a certified technician. YMMV.
Will the next one?
If it were me, I would shut the gas line off and call for a certified technician. YMMV.
- Jun 20, 2012
- 439
The orange flame is diagnostic. It means either gas pressure is low, the burners are clogged or the gas valve is screwed up.
Either way, it's time for a pro.
Either way, it's time for a pro.
Qwaxalot said:The orange flame is diagnostic. It means either gas pressure is low, the burners are clogged or the gas valve is screwed up.
Either way, it's time for a pro.
Thanks, I have called and waiting for them to come by. When they did come by about the leak, they said it was likely the HE and that is was on back order. They would not know if it was a warranty issue or a chemistry one until the HE was removed and inspected by someone from Hayward. Problem is, by that point it will be too late to simply buy a new heater since I will either have a free repair or a hugely expensive one.
jonmar said:Qwaxalot said:The orange flame is diagnostic. It means either gas pressure is low, the burners are clogged or the gas valve is screwed up.
Either way, it's time for a pro.
Thanks, I have called and waiting for them to come by. When they did come by about the leak, they said it was likely the HE and that is was on back order. They would not know if it was a warranty issue or a chemistry one until the HE was removed and inspected by someone from Hayward. Problem is, by that point it will be too late to simply buy a new heater since I will either have a free repair or a hugely expensive one.
Today pool company says they think the IF code is related to the leak and will address the issue when they attend to change the HE, which is still on back order. If it turns out to be a warranty repair it's worth waiting. If not, I'd rather just get a new heater.
Just to close this thread out. I ended up getting a new heater. I spoke with Hayward and they were very accommodating. I will remain a loyal Hayward customer based on the treatment I received.
Good to hear your issue was resolved in a relatively quick manner. Good luck with the new heater, it's likely to be more efficient.