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Thread: Reverse Osmosis

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    Reverse Osmosis

    What is reverse osmosis, how much is the cost and does a pool co. do that or who?
    Kris
    In ground 26,000 gal. 16x36 Avg depth-6'
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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Reverse Osmosis

    Generally there are service companies who specialize in reverse osmosis treatments. They aren't available in all areas, usually only in areas with high CH fill water, but it varies.

    Reverse osmosis removes all (well most) of the dissolved solids from the water. That is everything: chlorine, TA, CH, CYA, Borates, Salt, everything.

    Costs vary by region, though typically it costs a little less than a complete drain and refill.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    ej76az's Avatar
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    Re: Reverse Osmosis

    My city tap water CH is 300-400 so the empty-and-refill method is pointless.

    I researched pool water reverse osmosis in the Phoenix area and found only two companies.

    Calsaway uses a truck-mounted self-powered high-pressure RO system that takes 1-2 days.
    http://www.calsawayphoenixwest.com/
    I was quoted $475.

    HiTek Aqua Systems d/b/a Aqualabz uses a smaller RO system that takes 3-7 days and uses the homeowner's electricity ($5/day at highest rate).
    http://www.aqualabz.com/
    I was quoted $300.
    Aqualabz calls its RO system EcoKlear. It's manufactured by Clean Water Products in Tuscon.
    http://www.cleanwaterproducts.net/Swimming_Pools.html

    I decided to go with Aqualabz because of the lower price. I will post an update after the service is done.

    Current levels:
    total hardness 1000
    CH 750
    CYA 150
    salt 5200

    I find these numbers disgusting considering that the pool is only one year old. After I get the water ROed, I will use the BBB SWG w/ borax method.

    Because my city tap water CH is so high, Aqualabz is going to try to get the pool CH down to 200.

    My house has a water softener (for the interior plumbing), so maybe I could try to tap into a pipe from the outside and connect to the pool auto-filler (instead of my back yard hose bibb, which is unsoftened). If anyone has any suggestions about that, please post.
    Pool: PebbleSheen; Pentair WhisperFlo 1.5hp; Pentair IntelliChlor IC40; Paramount PV3 in-floor cleaning; Pentair CCP420 cartridge filter; Polaris PowerFall 48" sheer descents (2); 8000 gal
    Spa: L.A. Spas San Juan; ozone; 386 gal

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Reverse Osmosis

    A lot of people in high CH areas use their softened water to top off the pool. It's a good idea. Most softeners aren't big enough for a full fill but they're fine for evaporation/splashout replacement.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
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    Re: Reverse Osmosis

    I'm super interested in hearing how this turns out, ej76az -

    I've been consulting The Google and asking around about the RO option here in Phoenix, pool pros and companies, and no one has a clue if it works or not (aside from the service companies). I recently hired and independent pro who seems to know his trade, and when asked, he confessed that while he'd heard of the process, he had no experience with it - and added that in theory it should be a fantastic solution to the problems that plague us water-wise here in The Valley -

    Thread bookmarked -

    S
    Pool: 13.5kG - Pebble Sheen - Salt/Ozone - In-floor and Cartridge Filtration - Pentair
    Spa: 500G

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Reverse Osmosis

    SjrNaz, Welcome to TFP! RO treatments certainly work, many people on the forum have used one or another of the RO services. In the areas where it is available, the cost is competitive with water replacement.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    ej76az's Avatar
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    Re: Reverse Osmosis

    Quote Originally Posted by SjrNaz
    I'm super interested in hearing how this turns out, ej76az - I've been consulting The Google and asking around about the RO option here in Phoenix, pool pros and companies, and no one has a clue if it works or not S
    Aqualabz is scheduled to start 6/21 and finish 6/25, and I'll post the results afterward.

    I, too, had trouble with The Google. I found Calsaway right away but that was the only company that showed up despite many different searches. I couldn't believe it's the only company here, so I kept doing more searches using various terms and eventually found Aqualabz. (I think Aqualabz needs to hire someone for search engine optimizing.) As far as I could find, those are the only two companies here. Because of the super-hard water here, I would think pool water RO would be a huge business with multiple competitors. This might be a business opportunity for an enterprising person.



    Quote Originally Posted by Bama Rambler
    A lot of people in high CH areas use their softened water to top off the pool. It's a good idea.
    I don't know if this is the right thread or the right area of the forum, but I'd love some advice on this. The way my plumbing is, I don't see an easy way to tap into an interior line and run a new line to the outside of the house. Is there some way to detect where the pipes are behind the drywall? And there'd be a lot of drywall demo and replacement to install the new line. But the pool's existing auto-water-leveler line could easily be moved from the existing (hard water) hose bibb to a new (soft water) hose bibb. Not sure how much all this would cost, compared to $300 every other year or so for RO (assuming this would eliminate, or reduce the frequency of, the need for RO).
    Pool: PebbleSheen; Pentair WhisperFlo 1.5hp; Pentair IntelliChlor IC40; Paramount PV3 in-floor cleaning; Pentair CCP420 cartridge filter; Polaris PowerFall 48" sheer descents (2); 8000 gal
    Spa: L.A. Spas San Juan; ozone; 386 gal

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    ej76az's Avatar
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    Re: Reverse Osmosis

    Aqualabz set up the RO system yesterday afternoon:
    [attachment=1:1z0x1wir]2012-06-22_18-05-15_818.jpg[/attachment:1z0x1wir]
    [attachment=0:1z0x1wir]2012-06-22_18-05-34_347.jpg[/attachment:1z0x1wir]

    It's a little noisier than a pool pump but not annoying.

    It produces water that's CH 20!

    It's scheduled to finish Monday. I'll post the pool water levels afterward.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Pool: PebbleSheen; Pentair WhisperFlo 1.5hp; Pentair IntelliChlor IC40; Paramount PV3 in-floor cleaning; Pentair CCP420 cartridge filter; Polaris PowerFall 48" sheer descents (2); 8000 gal
    Spa: L.A. Spas San Juan; ozone; 386 gal

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    Re: Reverse Osmosis

    Pool: 13.5kG - Pebble Sheen - Salt/Ozone - In-floor and Cartridge Filtration - Pentair
    Spa: 500G

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    ej76az's Avatar
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    Re: Reverse Osmosis

    After 48 hours:

    TH 200
    CH 180
    CYA 0
    salt 730

    Turned off machine. Tomorrow technician will bring water to correct levels and take machine.
    Pool: PebbleSheen; Pentair WhisperFlo 1.5hp; Pentair IntelliChlor IC40; Paramount PV3 in-floor cleaning; Pentair CCP420 cartridge filter; Polaris PowerFall 48" sheer descents (2); 8000 gal
    Spa: L.A. Spas San Juan; ozone; 386 gal

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Reverse Osmosis

    Interesting.

    Just be careful what levels they adjust. They may think differently about correct levels than we do.

    BTW is that a Illini avatar?

    Posted with Tapatalk ... sorry if I sound short ... hate typing on phone
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: Reverse Osmosis

    $300 is what I was quoted here in Tucson also. I can drain and refill for a bit over half of that price, but the fll water has a CH of around 250.
    chiefwej
    Tucson, AZ
    16x36 rectangular (19k) Pebble Tec play pool/spa, Pentair Intelliflo VS 011018, Super II 2hp (spa), Aqua Rite T-15 SWG, Pro Grid 60 DE, Hayward H400 & Heliocol Solar heating, A&A infloor system, fill water w/high CH and TA, 50 ppm borates,TF-100 test kit

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    Re: Reverse Osmosis

    Go Illini! Here in Illini-land, water comes out of the tap with a CH of 60. People have to constantly add CH to their pools--well, those with plaster pools anyway....
    12,000 gallon IG vinyl pool, 1 HP pump, sand filter, TF-100 test kit, Raypak heater. Converted from Bacqa June 2011. Trouble Free ever since.

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    Re: Reverse Osmosis

    I sure do!
    Btw....oskee wow wow Illinois!
    30000 gallon inground gunite pool
    Intelliflo ic-60 SWG, pentair tagelus sand filter, 1.5 hp whisperflo pump, tf 100 test kit,
    2 kids(tl), 1 mini-dachshund/lab mix(t),
    Central Illinois

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    Re: Reverse Osmosis

    Quote Originally Posted by ej76az
    Because my city tap water CH is so high, Aqualabz is going to try to get the pool CH down to 200.
    With a plaster surface having the CH to low can cause the csi to be below -.6 depending on the other levels of the pool. I added rain water this winter and lowered min from ch 350 to ch 290 at that level if the ph was below 7.8 the water became aggressive.
    DONE, 20 x 40, inground gunite, 30" raised bond beam with 3 12" sheer descents, 8' diving board, pentair 420 cartridge filter, vs-3050 pump, intellechlor ic-40, auto cvr, Tahoe blue pebble tech, 6ea 4' x 12.5' & 2ea 1' x 12.5' helicol solar panels, legend robotic cleaner.

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    harleysilo's Avatar
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    Re: Reverse Osmosis

    So what are we looking at in that piece of equipment they brought over?

    A big cartridge filter?
    3 other types of water filters?
    A pump?
    a couple manifolds?

    I wonder what it would cost to make your own and plump by your pool equipment using your pool pump to power it, or a booster pump. Run it couple times a year.
    18'x43' Sport Pool
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    ej76az's Avatar
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    Re: Reverse Osmosis

    jb:
    I'm going to give the Aqualabz technician a printout of TFP's recommended SWG levels:
    pool-school/water_balance_saltwater_generator
    I'll post the results afterward.

    matt and tlt:
    Go Illini! The southwest sure has different water than my home state. I can't even imagine intentionally raising CH like you folks. Here it's a constant and expensive battle to reduce it. I've heard of people who allowed it to get above 1000! (not TFP people, obviously)

    chief:
    My city water's CH is more than 300, so for me it just doesn't make sense to drain and refill.

    bobby:
    According to both PebbleTec and my IntelliChlor manual, the minimum recommended CH is 200. I let the RO machine bring it down to 180 because I know it will rise above 200 in a matter of days or weeks. The evaporation rate at this time of year -- 110 degrees and 10% humidity -- is insane, and my auto water leveler is replacing that evaporated CH 180 water with CH 300+ city water.

    harley:
    This is from the website of the manufacturer of the commercial system Aqualabz uses: "For a $11,200 Investment you can service 300 pools per year for $250 per pool." I'm surprised Pentair or some other company isn't mass-producing a residential pool RO system. I assume it would be way cheaper than $11k. I think RO systems for under the kitchen sink are a few hundred $ up front, plus a hundred or so every other year for replacement filters, plus a hundred or so every several years for a new membrane.
    Pool: PebbleSheen; Pentair WhisperFlo 1.5hp; Pentair IntelliChlor IC40; Paramount PV3 in-floor cleaning; Pentair CCP420 cartridge filter; Polaris PowerFall 48" sheer descents (2); 8000 gal
    Spa: L.A. Spas San Juan; ozone; 386 gal

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Reverse Osmosis

    Sounds good, just did not want them to blindly dump in too much CYA or something.

    There are actually a few members here with CH over 1000 ... they just keep a close eye on their pH to avoid scaling issues.

    Former Illini myself
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Re: Reverse Osmosis

    Quote Originally Posted by harleysilo
    So what are we looking at in that piece of equipment they brought over?

    A big cartridge filter?
    3 other types of water filters?
    A pump?
    a couple manifolds?

    I wonder what it would cost to make your own and plump by your pool equipment using your pool pump to power it, or a booster pump. Run it couple times a year.
    I have a RO/DI system for my reef tanks.

    Those 3 big cartridges are the actual RO membranes. A couple hundred bucks a piece for that size (possibly more to deal with the higher pressure). Then just a pump and manifolds to direct the water in to water out. You could probably build that for under 1000 bucks.

    You can see the input side of the membranes on the top of the picture, output side is on bottom with a yellow valve. Then there's the waste water output. I googled the internet some more and I'd confidently say you could build that easily for under 2000. Those higher output RO membranes can get pricey the higher you go in output in terms of gallons per hour/day.
    18x36 inground vinyl lined, Hayward sand filter and tablet chrolinator, approx 18k gallon

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Reverse Osmosis

    For swimming pool use you need a very high water recovery rate, which requires high pressure, which raises the price noticeably. Also, special pre-filters are often used to prevent membrane fouling.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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