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Thread: bad match - should I replace the filter or the pump?

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    bad match - should I replace the filter or the pump?

    Howdy,

    So, our new to us pool came with a A.D. Smith Centurian 2.2hp pump and a Pentair FNS DE filter (48sf). Apparently this is a bad combo as the pump is way too powerful for this filter. My pool is about 12k-15k gallons. Two pool guys told me that I either need to upgrade the filter or get a smaller pump. Both are fairly new. One pool guy told me that the manifold is cracked, he showed a black part (to where grids attach) inside the filter with a good size crack/whole in it.
    I assume one of the grids is now cracked, I added DE via skimmer and some of it came out via return lines.
    A good pump is almost the same price as a filter. I assume that I have the cheapest pump money can buy and should not expect much efficiency out of it. Would love to get an energy efficient pump to keep the cost down. Some people claim a $40 per month difference in electric bill with the new Pentair IntellFlow pumps.

    Open to suggestions.


    FYI - summary of my week:
    1. cooktop's glass seal breaks along the perimeter of the glass
    2. Dishwasher dies
    3. Pool's timer dies

    Thanks God previous owners purchased a home insurance.
    ~14,000K avg 5.5ft deep kidney shaped pool + Waterfall.
    Challenger 2.2hp pump, Pentair 48sf DE filter.

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    Join Date
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    Re: bad match - should I replace the filter or the pump?

    For a 12 - 15K pool, you certainly do not need 2.2 hp, unless you have water features (waterfalls, deck jets, etc) or a spa with hydrotherapy jets. Price out the manifold for your filter and get a smaller pump.

    Think of the calculations this way:
    If your pump is 230 volts, drawing 11.2 amps (per http://www.poolcenter.com/pumps_CHALLENGER_POOLSTOR.htm),
    =2576 watts (P=IxV) x 24 hrs (worst case) = 61824 watts/day = 61.82kw/day x $0.11/kw (you can change this to your actual electrical cost) = $6.80/day x 30 days = $204/month...but that's running your pump 24/7!
    SO, assuming an 8 hr run time ==>$68/month.
    However, if you reduce your pump to a 3/4 hp pump, (230V @ 5.4A), using the same calculations ==> $33/month
    The Intelliflo can possibly save a bit more, but the initial cost may offset the savings.
    Sean Assam - Sean@teamhorner.com
    National Accounts and Commercial Products Manager
    AquaCal Heat Pumps www.aquacal.com
    AutoPilot Salt Chlorine Generators www.autopilot.com

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: bad match - should I replace the filter or the pump?

    Just to add to what Poolsean has said, your filter size is fine for that size pool, but the pump is too big. Was it chosen because of the waterfall? You might also want to consider a 2 speed pump, and run on high if you need a bit more boost when the waterfall runs, but run on low (and a lot less power consumption) the rest of the time.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: bad match - should I replace the filter or the pump?

    Also take into account your electric rates. Anything above 25¢ per kwh and a variable speed pump begins to make sense. Below that a 2-speed is usually a better investment.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: bad match - should I replace the filter or the pump?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bama Rambler
    Also take into account your electric rates. Anything above 25¢ per kwh and a variable speed pump begins to make sense. Below that a 2-speed is usually a better investment.
    Yes I do have a waterfall. I'm paying about 8 cents for electricity.
    What pump would you recommend?
    ~14,000K avg 5.5ft deep kidney shaped pool + Waterfall.
    Challenger 2.2hp pump, Pentair 48sf DE filter.

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    Re: bad match - should I replace the filter or the pump?

    Thanks for your input BTW.
    ~14,000K avg 5.5ft deep kidney shaped pool + Waterfall.
    Challenger 2.2hp pump, Pentair 48sf DE filter.

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: bad match - should I replace the filter or the pump?

    Can you give us the model number on the pump?
    And the catalog number on the motor?

    I'd just change the motor on the pump to a 2-speed model given that you have a waterfall and probably need the flow of the high hp pump.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: bad match - should I replace the filter or the pump?

    Hey,

    I just got back from a trip. Attached are model # from the pump. It seems the motor is Centurion yet the part is a challanger.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    ~14,000K avg 5.5ft deep kidney shaped pool + Waterfall.
    Challenger 2.2hp pump, Pentair 48sf DE filter.

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    Re: bad match - should I replace the filter or the pump?

    front portion
    Attached Images Attached Images
    ~14,000K avg 5.5ft deep kidney shaped pool + Waterfall.
    Challenger 2.2hp pump, Pentair 48sf DE filter.

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: bad match - should I replace the filter or the pump?

    Most challenger pumps have a centurion motors. The pump CHII-N1-2A. That is from their high pressure line. They show no 2 speeds for that line, but as Bama mentioned I would guess you could go to a 2 speed motor. Are you running 110 volts or 230 volts?
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: bad match - should I replace the filter or the pump?

    Quote Originally Posted by linen
    Most challenger pumps have a centurion motors. The pump CHII-N1-2A. That is from their high pressure line. They show no 2 speeds for that line, but as Bama mentioned I would guess you could go to a 2 speed motor. Are you running 110 volts or 230 volts?
    No idea. How can I find out? So just swap the motor? keep the pump the same? How can I tell if the new motor will work with my pump?
    ~14,000K avg 5.5ft deep kidney shaped pool + Waterfall.
    Challenger 2.2hp pump, Pentair 48sf DE filter.

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: bad match - should I replace the filter or the pump?

    That motor is 230 volt only. So that's easy!

    Yeah, just change the motor. You need a B985 or equal. And get a shaft seal too.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
    Pool School ----- Pool Math ----- TF-Test Kit

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    Re: bad match - should I replace the filter or the pump?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bama Rambler
    That motor is 230 volt only. So that's easy!

    Yeah, just change the motor. You need a B985 or equal. And get a shaft seal too.
    Thanks,
    How do I identify what type of frame size/type I need? http://www.poolsupplyworld.com/poolsupp ... s/B985.htm something like that? Any other options?
    ~14,000K avg 5.5ft deep kidney shaped pool + Waterfall.
    Challenger 2.2hp pump, Pentair 48sf DE filter.

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: bad match - should I replace the filter or the pump?

    A.O. Smith makes a new line of two speed motors (E-Plus) which has higher efficiency at both low and high speeds. The B2983 should be the correct motor although it is labeled as a 1 1/2 HP full rated motor. Your current motor is a 2 HP up rated which is the same size (THP).
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: bad match - should I replace the filter or the pump?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bama Rambler
    That motor is 230 volt only. So that's easy!
    doh and right on the label too
    Quote Originally Posted by VKJK
    How do I identify what type of frame size/type I need? http://www.poolsupplyworld.com/poolsupp ... s/B985.htm something like that? Any other options?
    Looks like the one Mas mentioned is cheaper than the one you pointed too. Here it is: http://www.poolsupplyworld.com/pools...ucts/B2983.htm
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    ~14,000K avg 5.5ft deep kidney shaped pool + Waterfall.
    Challenger 2.2hp pump, Pentair 48sf DE filter.

  17. Back To Top    #17
    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: bad match - should I replace the filter or the pump?

    B2983 is a 2.2 THP motor which is the correct size for your current pump and it is higher efficiency.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: bad match - should I replace the filter or the pump?

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985
    B2983 is a 2.2 THP motor which is the correct size for your current pump and it is higher efficiency.
    right and I can run it a lower speed and higher when using the waterfall.
    Is there anything else I need to know or do to replace the motor? I'm going to try to do this myself.
    ~14,000K avg 5.5ft deep kidney shaped pool + Waterfall.
    Challenger 2.2hp pump, Pentair 48sf DE filter.

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    Join Date
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    Re: bad match - should I replace the filter or the pump?

    Get a pump seal kit while you're at it.
    16x32 IG 19,000 gallons, Pentair 1.5 hp Energy Efficient Superflo pump (348024),vinyl liner, Chlorine dispenser, Hayward S-244T sand filter

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    Re: bad match - should I replace the filter or the pump?

    Hello everyone, I have some sort of a similar issue with my pool. I live in Puerto Rico and the energy cost is variable but is between $0.19 to $0.22 Kwh. I have an inground pool (1 year old) and I also have a Pentair 48SF DE Filter. I currently have a Waterway Single Speed 2.5HP pump (SVL56S-125), the pool installer suggested this setting since I have a Gas heater, solar heater system 2" piping and 3 water features (Waterfall, Deck jets and hydrotherapy jets in the pool) I also have a salt system installed. I have a 12 x 24 inground pool and it is between 11000 to 13000 gallons.

    With energy cost so high I am running the pump for 4 hours a day. I did the math since the Waterway pump is 11.5 Amps and with the 4 hours of run time it is consuming approximately 296 kw on a monthly base. I am thinking on replacing this pump with a more efficient one, so far my choices are either an intelliflo or the ecopump... I am concerned with the electronics on the intelliflo since all my pool equipment is exposed to the elements... On the other hand the ecopump gives a total 5yr warranty witch I think is not that bad...

    So My question is due to the fact of the water features that I have, pipe size, solar heater and filter size, I am not sure if I should downsize to something smaller than 2.5HP or not...

    Does anyone knows if the A.O. Smith makes a new line of two speed motors (E-Plus) can be hooked to a waterway pump?
    I am just looking for ways on lowering my energy bill, since the costs of electricity here are way too much and we all know that they will keep rising. But I want to make a smart decision, due to the fact that either the pump I chose is going to be $800+...

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