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Thread: First time spring opening

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    First time spring opening

    Hi,

    This will be the first time I've opened my pool after a winter hibernation. By now, especially after a spell of day time temperatures into the 30's the water is pea green. I had the presence of mind to clear up the larger debris whilst I could still see the bottom; not much, mostly birch and maple seeds and bugs. Partially drained it again to replace the under skimmer 3-way valve. Just refilled and set to chlorinate; I've avoided the temptation to purchase algaecide (at this point at least). I do have a fair amount of unopened clarifying agent (floc?) from an opening kit that was given to me by the previous owner of the pool, which I guess I could use if needs be, but I'll see how I get on with just chlorine.

    Water chemistry, using Aquacheck test strip (probably not that reliable I know, but it's all that's available locally for FC and CYA) is

    pH - around 7.2
    FC - 0.0
    Total alkalinity - around 80
    CYA - around 30, maybe less (hard to judge).

    So I'm planning to shock to 15 ppm FC. I do have 4Kg of 65% Ca-hypo to hand. Maybe use that for the initial shock (27oz: 0.77Kg) and then switch to 6% bleach as needs require.

    I appreciate the need to keep the pump running 24/7 throughout the process, but two questions arise:

    1. Would it be a good idea to have a (slow dissolve) puck or two in the skimmer or a floater to bring the CYA up? I have a load of pucks over from last season and don't really want to go out and buy stabilizer if pucks will do.

    2. Unfortunately, due to work constraints, there wont be any one around during the daytime to attend to backwashes etc. If I start in the morning with the filter (sand) in Circulation mode, and then switch to Filtration mode in the evening when I can monitor the pressure gauge etc, should I still be OK?

    Cheers.
    "Inherited" Cornelius 18'x54" Round AGP (Steel walls), Hayward Pro Series 21" Sand Filter, ClubPro (Jacuzzi) 1HP single speed pump, Lumi-O Festiva steps, Toile-Soleil mesh leaf net/winter cover. That's about it.

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: First time spring opening

    You really should get a test kit that is more reliable than the strips. You can at least find a drop based ph /TC kit almost everywhere, though getting a kit with the FAS-DPD FC test included will save you time, money and headaches.

    Quote Originally Posted by WorBry
    1. Would it be a good idea to have a (slow dissolve) puck or two in the skimmer or a floater to bring the CYA up? I have a load of pucks over from last season and don't really want to go out and buy stabilizer if pucks will do.
    Not the skimmer, the pucks (assuming trichlor pucks here) are very acidic. A floater would be better, but make sure you do not let come to rest near the liner. If you are going to use the pucks calculate (using the poolcalculator.com) how many you can add before your cya goes above your target. Our recommended range is 30-50 for non-swg pools. CYA strip testing is almost always wrong, so at least go to a pool store and get you cya tested (they are often wrong as well...you have been warned).

    Quote Originally Posted by WorBry
    2. Unfortunately, due to work constraints, there wont be any one around during the daytime to attend to backwashes etc. If I start in the morning with the filter (sand) in Circulation mode, and then switch to Filtration mode in the evening when I can monitor the pressure gauge etc, should I still be OK?
    I find that my sand filter can handle a lot of debree, yours should be able to handle it too, so I would try to leave it on filter the whole day.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: First time spring opening

    Thanks, yes, I already have one of the dropper test kits for pH and TC. I'll see if I can source a FAS-DPD based FC kit but, like I said, the two local pool stores only have strip tests.

    Didn't have time to shock this morning after all. Friday evening is probably a better time to start anyway. As you suggest, I'll take a sample to the store tomorrow morning for proper baseline CYA testing. No doubt they'll try to sell me algaecide.
    "Inherited" Cornelius 18'x54" Round AGP (Steel walls), Hayward Pro Series 21" Sand Filter, ClubPro (Jacuzzi) 1HP single speed pump, Lumi-O Festiva steps, Toile-Soleil mesh leaf net/winter cover. That's about it.

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    Re: First time spring opening

    Pool store CYA test result was 0 ppm. Not surprising I guess; although I used only pucks last season, the pool had been half emptied and refilled three times from closure.

    Strange thing is that the guy who did the test remarked that zero stabilizer is actually good. How so, I queried? He reckoned that the protective benefits of stabilizer are, in practice, offset by the increased chlorine demand for available FC, so why bother? Strange remark coming from a pool store.

    Regardless, I purchased some Aqua Stab Tabs (200g); got two in the skimmer (in a nylon sock; they crumble) and two in a floater. Hopefully that should bring it up to something detectable.
    "Inherited" Cornelius 18'x54" Round AGP (Steel walls), Hayward Pro Series 21" Sand Filter, ClubPro (Jacuzzi) 1HP single speed pump, Lumi-O Festiva steps, Toile-Soleil mesh leaf net/winter cover. That's about it.

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: First time spring opening

    Are those tabs trichlor? If they are, 4 200g trichlor tabs will bring your cya up 15 ppm, I would only use 8 more if this is the method to get your cya up. A total of 12 pucks will get your 7600 gallon pool up to 45 ppm cya according to poolcalculator.com.

    Since your are shocking and the trichlor is slow release, you may need to supplement with liquid chlorine/bleach to keep the FC level up, but since you do not have a FAS-DPD FC test, you will not accurately know how much your need to add.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: First time spring opening

    Quote Originally Posted by linen
    Are those tabs trichlor?
    No they are neat CYA stabilizer (200g) in 3" puck format. In a nylon sock (paint strainer) in the skimmer, they dissolve in about 6 hours, with the aid of a little hand squishing. Since I couldn't be sure the CYA level was truly 0, I thought it best to add 4 pucks for starters; which should (if 0) bring it up to around 25ppm. Haven't had opportunity to retest at the store yet, but the strip CYA test at least shows a little color change.

    Quote Originally Posted by linen
    Since your are shocking and the trichlor is slow release, you may need to supplement with liquid chlorine/bleach to keep the FC level up, but since you do not have a FAS-DPD FC test, you will not accurately know how much your need to add.
    I've not been using triclor pucks, only 65% Ca-Hypo for the first shock and 6% bleach since. For sure, I'm having to best guess. The FC strip test only goes up to 10ppm, so the best I can do for now (to avoid over-dosing) is to wait until the test drops to 5ppm, and then add 5.3 liters of 6% bleach a pop, which theoretically should bring it 'back up' to around 15ppm.

    Still searching for a FAS-DPD FC test.

    Good news is the pool is clearing, albeit slowly.
    "Inherited" Cornelius 18'x54" Round AGP (Steel walls), Hayward Pro Series 21" Sand Filter, ClubPro (Jacuzzi) 1HP single speed pump, Lumi-O Festiva steps, Toile-Soleil mesh leaf net/winter cover. That's about it.

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: First time spring opening

    Quote Originally Posted by WorBry
    No they are neat CYA stabilizer (200g) in 3" puck format. In a nylon sock (paint strainer) in the skimmer, they dissolve in about 6 hours, with the aid of a little hand squishing. Since I couldn't be sure the CYA level was truly 0, I thought it best to add 4 pucks for starters; which should (if 0) bring it up to around 25ppm. Haven't had opportunity to retest at the store yet, but the strip CYA test at least shows a little color change.
    I have never heard of stabilizer only pucks. Could you point me to a web site, all I was able to find were these trichlor (I think) pucks: http://www.aquachem.com/mp/v/index.j...extfmt=default
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: First time spring opening

    They are these (last item on the page):

    http://www.lawrasons.com/POOLSPA/produc ... ncing.html

    Wow, a pool chemical actually made in Canada !!

    The tub I purchased had 4 x 200g (3") pucks, which was convenient for me. Package info states 98.5% cyanuric acid. 1.5% inert ingredients. They are blue - is that the actual color of CYA or a dye to distinguish them from regular triclor pucks ?

    They start to crumble after 30 mins or so in the skimmer and, like I said, provided they are held in a fine mesh sock, a little hand squishing helps to break them down. Whether they are truly dissolving that fast I'm not too sure. I've avoided back-washing the filter for the last 2 days just to be on the safe side. Hope it's not corroding anything in there.
    "Inherited" Cornelius 18'x54" Round AGP (Steel walls), Hayward Pro Series 21" Sand Filter, ClubPro (Jacuzzi) 1HP single speed pump, Lumi-O Festiva steps, Toile-Soleil mesh leaf net/winter cover. That's about it.

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    Re: First time spring opening

    Bah, even the Walmart 6-way drop test kit (HTH) mentioned in the TFP test kit comparison is not available here at Walmart Canada.

    http://www.walmart.com/ip/HTH-6-Way-Test-Kit/17043668
    "Inherited" Cornelius 18'x54" Round AGP (Steel walls), Hayward Pro Series 21" Sand Filter, ClubPro (Jacuzzi) 1HP single speed pump, Lumi-O Festiva steps, Toile-Soleil mesh leaf net/winter cover. That's about it.

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: First time spring opening

    Quote Originally Posted by WorBry
    They are these (last item on the page):

    http://www.lawrasons.com/POOLSPA/produc ... ncing.html

    Wow, a pool chemical actually made in Canada !!

    The tub I purchased had 4 x 200g (3") pucks, which was convenient for me. Package info states 98.5% cyanuric acid. 1.5% inert ingredients. They are blue - is that the actual color of CYA or a dye to distinguish them from regular triclor pucks ?

    They start to crumble after 30 mins or so in the skimmer and, like I said, provided they are held in a fine mesh sock, a little hand squishing helps to break them down. Whether they are truly dissolving that fast I'm not too sure. I've avoided back-washing the filter for the last 2 days just to be on the safe side. Hope it's not corroding anything in there.
    Thanks for the information, I had not heard of them before. Other than helping measure by counting tabs, they don't seem to be that much of an advantage over the granuals...or am I missing something? I would guess the color is a die, since granular cya is white.

    You probably know this already, but in Canada you can get the Taylor K-2006 here: http://piscines-apollo.com/cubecart/...ts/k-2006.html
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: First time spring opening

    Quote Originally Posted by linen
    Other than helping measure by counting tabs, they don't seem to be that much of an advantage over the granuals...or am I missing something?
    Probably not, it's just what the pool store had.

    Quote Originally Posted by linen
    You probably know this already, but in Canada you can get the Taylor K-2006 here: http://piscines-apollo.com/cubecart/...ts/k-2006.html
    Yes, I saw that but oooh the price Shame they don't do a separate chlorine kit, or do they? I can only see reagent.
    "Inherited" Cornelius 18'x54" Round AGP (Steel walls), Hayward Pro Series 21" Sand Filter, ClubPro (Jacuzzi) 1HP single speed pump, Lumi-O Festiva steps, Toile-Soleil mesh leaf net/winter cover. That's about it.

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: First time spring opening

    You can get the reagents and a test cell, I think they have all of it. Let us know if you need help selecting the right ones.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: First time spring opening

    Thanks, I've just sent them a message (no contact phone #) inquiring about availability of a test cell to use with the Taylor reagent.
    "Inherited" Cornelius 18'x54" Round AGP (Steel walls), Hayward Pro Series 21" Sand Filter, ClubPro (Jacuzzi) 1HP single speed pump, Lumi-O Festiva steps, Toile-Soleil mesh leaf net/winter cover. That's about it.

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: First time spring opening

    Quote Originally Posted by WorBry
    Thanks, I've just sent them a message (no contact phone #) inquiring about availability of a test cell to use with the Taylor reagent.
    Looks like this is it: http://piscines-apollo.com/cubecart/...9198-cell.html
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: First time spring opening

    Ah, yes, thanks.........I'm not really thick

    In the demo FAS-DPD test video they do also briefly flash up a stand-alone FC/CC kit (K-1515-A), but I cant see that listed on the piscines apollo website. I'll wait to see if they mention that in their reply. If available I'd want to see how the kit price compares with the individual reagents.

    BTW, would I be right in assuming that when testing at shock levels it would be normal to dilute the sample first? If I understand correctly, it would, for example, require 75 drops of (FAS?) reagent (at 0.2 ppm per drop) to titrate 15 ppm FC in an undiluted sample. Cant see the reagent lasting very long at that rate.
    "Inherited" Cornelius 18'x54" Round AGP (Steel walls), Hayward Pro Series 21" Sand Filter, ClubPro (Jacuzzi) 1HP single speed pump, Lumi-O Festiva steps, Toile-Soleil mesh leaf net/winter cover. That's about it.

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: First time spring opening

    Quote Originally Posted by WorBry
    Ah, yes, thanks.........I'm not really thick
    I didn't think you were...I have a FC kit in front of me, you don't
    Quote Originally Posted by WorBry
    BTW, would I be right in assuming that when testing at shock levels it would be normal to dilute the sample first? If I understand correctly, it would, for example, require 75 drops of reagent (at 0.2 ppm per drop) to titrate 15 ppm FC in an undiluted sample. Cant see the reagent lasting very long at that rate.
    The 0.2 ppm per drop is for a 25 ml pool water sample. If you use 10 ml pool water sample, then each drop is 0.5 ppm. Here are the extended directions for the FAS-DPD test (assumes 10 ml sample, except where noted):http://www.troublefreepool.com/exten...1.html#p206393
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: First time spring opening

    I'm waiting for Piscines Apollo to come back to me on the K-1515-A (0.75oz:22ml ) and larger K-1515-C (2oz:60ml) standalone kit availability, but on first reply they advised to order a R-0870, a R-0871-C (60ml) and a R-0003-A reagent, total cost $45 (+ $9 shipping) and they will throw in a 9198 test cell. Am I right in thinking that would amount to a K-1515-C kit, just without the plastic case?

    Not that I've got any choice if I want to go FAS-DPD, but does this seem a reasonable price?

    They also offer the K-1001 DPD kit (FC/pH) for $18 but that only reads up to 5ppm FC.

    Just weighing up whether I would be better to get a K-1001 for routine daily checks and use a smaller FAS-DPD (22ml FAS) reagent set for say weekly testing, trouble-shooting and shocks.

    Out of interest, what is the volume of one drop of FAS (R-0871) reagent? Just trying to get an idea of the number of test titrations.
    "Inherited" Cornelius 18'x54" Round AGP (Steel walls), Hayward Pro Series 21" Sand Filter, ClubPro (Jacuzzi) 1HP single speed pump, Lumi-O Festiva steps, Toile-Soleil mesh leaf net/winter cover. That's about it.

  18. Back To Top    #18
    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: First time spring opening

    You're right about that being the K-1515C kit without the case. I use a Tupperware lunch box so the little cases aren't important to me.

    I'd go ahead and spring for the FAS-DPD and not worry about the DPD. That (non)kit will last you more than a year.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
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  19. Back To Top    #19

    Re: First time spring opening

    Thanks, yes, I'll go for the K-1515-K reagent combo.

    Good news is the pool is clear but, I have to confess, I bowed to domestic pressure and used some 40% algaecide to precipitate the dead algae. Didn't take much, just 150ml; last time I used the stuff the pool store advised to pour in the whole 1L bottle; not necessary, at least after 5 days of shock.

    Does that disqualify me from the BBB club?
    "Inherited" Cornelius 18'x54" Round AGP (Steel walls), Hayward Pro Series 21" Sand Filter, ClubPro (Jacuzzi) 1HP single speed pump, Lumi-O Festiva steps, Toile-Soleil mesh leaf net/winter cover. That's about it.

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    Re: First time spring opening

    Quote Originally Posted by WorBry
    Does that disqualify me from the BBB club?
    For now, we'll just put you on double secret probation.
    33' round, 23,000 gal AG vinyl , 1HP 2spd PowerFlo Matrix downsized with 3/4HP impeller (X2), Hayward S180T 150# sand filter (X2), Hayward H250 NG heater Pool Store year 1 - $850 for 2 months; Pool Store year 2 - $440 for 2 months, TFPC year 1 - $170 for 4 months; TFPC year 2 - $95 for 4.5 months
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