Subpanel Question - New Intelliflo Pump

[SteveK]

Hi everyone,
My new Intelliflo pump and Hayward SwimClear cartridge filter arrived within last couple of days, so this weekend will be spent re-plumbing the pad and installing the new equipment. The pump is replacing 16 year old Jacuzzi products (1HP energy saver pump and 27" Sand Filter).

My question is regarding the sub-panel and the breakers.

Currently, I have an old Intermatic subpanel (Model T200004R) with integrated mechanical timer and four breaker slots setup this way:
- Slots 1&2 : 20AMP Dual Pole breaker (not GFCI which I will remediate) wired to timer.
Timer controls the old Jacuzzi pump (nameplate rated @7.0 amps @220V), Polaris Booster Pump (nameplate rated @6.3 amps @220V
and a Goldline SWCG (rated @1.0amps @220V); Total rating of 14.3amps, so no issue with 20AMP breaker for the old equipment.
- Slot 3 : 15AMP single pole GFCI for pool light (old Fiberstars fiberoptic w/Jbox [light source] about 50 feet from subpanel)
- Slot 4 : 15AMP single pole GFCI for branch circuit to garden shed (1 15amp outlet & 2 ceiling lights) and pool deck outlets (3 15amp outlets)

The Intelliflo is name-plate rated @16amps, so clearly the new pump, booster pump, and SWCG will exceed 20amps using the nameplate rating.
The California Energy Commission's tests of the Intelliflo @3450RPM (full output which I don't think I will ever use) tested @2720 watts (12.36amps drawn @220V).
So even @the measured current draw, it seems the current 20AMP dual pole breaker is too small to handle both pumps and the SWCG.

But with only 4 slots in the subpanel, if I install 2 GFCI 20 AMP double pole breakers, there are no slots left for the pool light circuit or branch circuit.

My initial thought was to replace slot 3 with a dual-pole 1/2 size 20AMP breaker and move the timer/booster/SWCG to it (no need for the Intelliflo to run off the mechanical timer). Then let the GFCI in slot 4 handle both of the 120V branch circuits since there's really no load there.

This would leave the booster pump and SWCG without GFCI, but that is their current state anyway & never had an issue in the rain or while wet.

I really don't want to replace the subpanel (don't even know if there is a similar model with more breaker slots).

Any options or suggestions?
TIA,
SteveK

 

[Bama Rambler]

The 2 poles of a half size breaker won't supply 230 volts so you can't use it for the booster pump. I suggest replacing the panel.

 

[SteveK]

The 2 poles of a half size breaker won't supply 230 volts so you can't use it for the booster pump. I suggest replacing the panel.

Dave, I think that is the case with tandem breakers containing 2-single poles (each able to trip separately)... but I was looking to install a double-pole tandem that would take power off different legs in the panel and would be a single-trip breaker (i.e., if one pole trips, the second pole closes also).

If that type of breaker doesn't exist, then I can also re-wire the booster pump for 120V operation and make use of an ordinary 20amp GFCI, but I'd have to check the timer instructions to see if it can run on 120V.

 

[keastman]

I'm not expert, but I think breaker boxes are set up so that a single breaker slot can only draw power off of one leg of the 220. The different leg contacts zig zag to every other breaker slot if I recall correctly. That's how a double breaker slot picks up both legs.

 

[Bama Rambler]

Both sides of a half size breaker draw power from one phase only, so there's no getting 230 volts from one

 

[SteveK]

Got it!

I'm not expert, but I think breaker boxes are set up so that a single breaker slot can only draw power off of one leg of the 220. The different leg contacts zig zag to every other breaker slot if I recall correctly. That's how a double breaker slot picks up both legs.

Both sides of a half size breaker draw power from one phase only, so there's no getting 230 volts from one

Putting together both of above comments explains it -- slots 1 & 3 draw from the same leg of the feeder...slots 2 & 4 draw from the opposite leg of the feeder. So, can only pull full 220 if using 1&2 and/or 3&4. I verified by pulling the breakers from the panel.

Thanks for explaining. Can either of you suggest another model (or brand) of panel as a replacement?

 

[scooperhsd]

Well - I'd avoid Federal Pacific (shouldn't be too difficult to find an acceptable one). I'd look for a 10-20 slot version of the same breaker box (so you can use the same breakers you have already) that you have now, that is rated for outside conditions. Just make sure you are using 4 wires from your feeder panel ( hot1, hot2, neutral,and ground).

 

[SteveK]

Yes, I have a 4-wire feed from the main house panel.

Thinking about this -- since I'd really like to avoid having to get a new panel -- would there be any issue with wiring a pigtail from the Intelliflo and timer in the panel to the 20-amp double pole breaker already in the box? That would supply 220V to the Intelliflo and the timer, but the only thing I'd leave connected to the timer is the Goldline SWCG which draws only 1 amp @220V. The rated load on the 20amp breaker would be no higher than 17amps @rated load.

I could re-wire the booster pump to 120V since it is turned on/off manually anyway and does not require timer control.

Any issues with that approach?

 

[JasonLion]

That should work.

 

[scooperhsd]

It would work, but -
As I understand the NEC, you should consider a pool pump as a continous load. For a 20 AMP breaker, I would be happier keeping the combined load at 16 amps or less. But don't replace your breaker with a larger one if the wiring doesn't support (20 AMP load - 12 AWG wiring, 25-30 AMP load - 10 AWG wiring). As always - if you have questions - consult a pro electrician.

 

[SteveK]

Yes, that 20% buffer between loads and the breaker's capacity wouldn't be satisfied using the nameplate ratings for the pump & SWCG combined. Testing of the Intelliflo shows a draw in the 12-13 amp range @highest speed which I would not use for general circulation & chlorination. So in practical terms, I'm sure the loads would be fine and less than 15amps total.

Thanks for detailed comments. When I wire-up the flexible conduit to the pump, I plan to use 10AWG, so if I do upgrade to a larger breaker, I'll be sure to pig-tail with the same 10AWG.

 

[keastman]

I'm not sure how your timer is configured in the breaker box, but intermatic timers in dedicated timer boxes have terminals for line and load. If yours has that, you could just hook the Intelliflo up to the line terminals so it would have constant 220 and not be on the timer, then switch out to the appropriate sized breaker in the box, as long as your sub panel feed wire covers it. You said you'd be upgrading to a GFCI breaker any how so you can size it appropriately. I'm sure you don't need to be reminded, but make sure you have the breaker to the sub panel off in your main panel and taped off, along with double checking the feed wires for voltage before you start operating. Even check the ground coming in if there is one. I've been surprised by some improperly wired sub panels before. As mentioned earlier, if you are not sure, Ask a qualified electrician. Could be the best insurance money ever spent.

 

[CraigMW]

Home Depot sells Murray, GE and SquareD panels. I picked up a Murray/Siemens 125A subpanel for about $50. These subpanels come with a neutral bar but not a grounding bar, so you will need that too. The current subpanel should be wired with four wires, two lines (black and black or red), a neutral (white) and a ground (green). If not, you should run new wires in the conduit to the main panel. The new subpanel should have the green run to a separate ground bar, and should not be bonded to the neutral bar. The white wire should run to the neutral bar and the two lines should run to the two line lugs (if main lug type) or to the main breaker (if main breaker type) of the sub-panel. The one I got has enough space for 8 one inch breakers, or 16 1/2 size breakers. Murray/Siemens also sell 2P 220V 20A GFCI breakers for about $65 at Home Depot. I had to order these by mail from them, but they had by far the cheapest price on these, and they are about the cheapest 2P GFCI breakers I came across. To wire a 220V pump, you run your two load wires (black and red) and a ground to the 220V motor. The GFCI breakers also have a white wire and a neutral terminal. Run the coiled white wire on the GFCI breaker to the neutral bar, and the two line wires to the breaker line terminals. The neutral terminal is not used in this configuration. Those two GFCI breakers will take up 1/2 of all the slots because they are 2" wide each. But, you will still have up to 8 single pole 1/2 size breakers for extra circuits. A couple of these could be 1P 120V GFCI breakers, but you can also run your lights off of in-line GFCI breakers, and these are a bit cheaper. In any event, I'd definitely recommend getting a new sub-panel and clean up your wiring. You will also have extra space if needed. BTW, make sure to check the ampacity of the wire from the main panel to make sure not to overload the wire in the conduit. I recently installed a subpanel to replace the original wiring to our pool equipment and was shocked to find that the original wiring was significantly undersized for the breaker in the main panel. Fortunately, it never fried anything.