Pet Health?

[ChasingWaterfalls]

I am interested in adding borates. Of particular interest in my case while researching was this quote from waterbear's post above:

As far as dogs (or people) ingesting small amounts of pool water, that's not going to hurt then BUT if you dog things the pool is their own private giant water dish that is NOT a good thing, borates or not! There are may chemicals in our pools that are not really good for our pets to consume in large quantities! Provide fresh drinking water outside and change it regularly and it's pretty easy to teach your pets not to drink from the pool! (I know a bit about this, I have three dogs and a cat!)

We have a Golden Retriever that does currently think the pool is her own private water dish, and has been drinking the majority of her water from it for 5 years, as we didn't know it was bad for her (although we have always prevented her from drinking immediately after adding any chemicals to prevent her from drinking any high concentrations of anything before it has time to blend well). Can anyone provide or point me to additional, more specific info on the hazards of pets drinking pool water, both with and without borates?

Also young ladies using our pool often want to know if I've shocked the pool recently in fear of turning their hair green after they've recently had a "perm". At what chlorine level is there risk to tinting someone's blonde hair green? I have noticed during some years that the blondish hair on our dog's belly will turn a slight green tint, but she essentially lives in the pool compared to human users. I ask because I switched to BBB this year, and one of the differences is the recommended chlorine level is around the high end to a bit higher than the pool store program we had been on in past years, especially if CYA is a little high.

 

[jblizzle]

No help on the dog front.

But, chlorine does NOT turn hair green ... copper in the water does. So the only way for that to happen is if you have used algaecides that contain copper or one of the "magic" "chlorine-less" mineral systems that use copper.

 

[ChasingWaterfalls]

Thanks for the info. I used a good bit of polyquat 60 in the past before switching to BBB this year. Is that a source of copper? Other than that, I don't know of anything we've ever used that could contain copper. I assume we must have some to have tinted our dog's blonde belly hair.

We've never had a human complain of hair tint from swimming in our pool, but a good friend of the family said hers turned green a few years ago after swimming in someone else's pool and assumed it was from shocking (coupled with her recent perm)... I think her one time experience is the original source of the ongoing "panic" within a network or friends. Our dog's hair slightly tinting to green gave some credibility to the concern in my mind.

 

[jblizzle]

No metal in Polyquat 60 ... which is why it is generally the only thing people on this forum recommend.

I think small amounts of copper could be introduced to the pool from copper pipes which may be in some heaters (but don't quote me on this ... beyond my knowledge level )

 

[Bama Rambler]

Copper can come from lots of places. Some trichlor pucks contain copper. Even some wells have copper. Some so called 'shocks' have copper in them too. And since it doesn't go away it tends to build up over time.

 

[chem geek]

ICan anyone provide or point me to additional, more specific info on the hazards of pets drinking pool water, both with and without borates?

Details about borates safety are in the thread Are Borates Safe?. The No Adverse Effect Limit (NOAEL) was 8.8 mg/kg/day for male dogs where first symptoms (smaller testicles) were seen at 29 mg/kg/day. If your dog is 20 kg (44 pounds), then the NOAEL is 176 mg/day so at 50 ppm (mg/L) that's 3-1/2 liters per day. It's doubtful your dog is drinking that much. We just give the warning about dogs to be on the safe side. The EPA uses a factor of 100 lower limit for humans as a margin of error since experiments weren't done on humans directly.

Boron is excreted from the body and doesn't bio-accumulate so it's a matter of keeping the amount below which the body can handle. Nevertheless, the amount found in foods and other natural sources is much less than the amounts quoted above.