Cloudy Pool

[foosboy2]

Good Morning. Pool is brushed, vacuumed, and skimmed.

Looks like we had a FC loss overnight. And all of the stabilizer in the sock was dissolved.

Here are this mornings measurements:
FC .15
CC .5
TC .65
PH 7.6? was hard to tell
TA 250
CH 360
CYA 5 maybe it was not crystal clear like yesterday so there has to be some progress from yesterdays 0

I added another half gallon of liquid chlorine just now.

What's my next step? Do I put more stabilizer in or let the amount I put in last night work?

Mitch (Progress???)
Michigan
8000 gal, IG, Fiberglass, Jandy CS 200 Cartridge Filter, new filter August 2011
Free chlorine .15 ppm
Total chlorine .65 ppm (calculated I guess from FC + CC)
Combined chlorine .5 ppm
pH 7.6
Hardness 360 ppm
Alkalinity 250 ppm
Cyanuric acid 5 ppm

 

[gboulton]

Looks like we had a FC loss overnight. And all of the stabilizer in the sock was dissolved.

FC loss overnight is expected. That's the point..your pool has something in it the chlorine is attacking. Stabilizer should be dissolved, all good.

Here are this mornings measurements:
FC .15

Presuming you mean 1.5, not a surprise.

But we should point out here..you STILL (unless you haven't told us something) haven't raised your chlorine to shock levels, not even halfway there if I've got numbers right.

Please review the Chlorine/CYA chart. Remember, you're heading for a CYA of 30 (or at least that was the plan), shock level is 12ppm FC. Even at 20, it's 10ppm. You went to 5 last night, and stopped.

CC .5

This make sense...a bit surprised it's not higher, but ok.

CYA 5 maybe it was not crystal clear like yesterday so there has to be some progress from yesterdays 0

That's fine..we're heading for 30, it'll take a few days. How much CYA did you put in? Did you calculate the correct amount from the Pool Calculator?

I added another half gallon of liquid chlorine just now.

What percent are you using again?

And where did we come up with that amount?

What's my next step?

Test, and maintain.

Make sure you're bringing the FC up to 12...that'll be 24 drops.

Don't worry about the CC for a while...at least for today, it's somewhat unimportant. It's going to be some value over 0, we know this, doesn't really matter how high. Today's goal is to maintain 12ppm shock level FC...test and add chlorine as often as you reasonably can....every hour even, if you have the time.

The whole key here is this : Whatever's alive in your pool is going to be killed AS LONG AS THE CHLORINE IS THAT HIGH. If the FC drops back down, the "stuff" will have a chance to catch its breath, and grow some more. Don't give it that chance. Crush it.

Tonight, before you head to bed, bring it back up to 12, and do a CC test...then we'll do FC and CC tomorrow morning, and see where we are.

Oh, one last note...the CC test being pale pink as you described 2 posts ago is no surprise...the low (for now) CCs mean it will be fairly light colored, that's fine. As you grow used to that test, you'll become able to guess the chlorine (FC or CC) level pretty close from the shade of pink.

==================

Our whole goal here is 3 very simple things....we want to wake up some morning and find the following:

1) FC loss of .5 or less overnight.
2) CC of .5 or less
3) Clear water

When you wake up and see all 3 of those things, shocking is done.

Until then, your main goal in life is keeping FC at the shock level.

 

[foosboy2]

Now the pool looks GREEN! NOT GOOD!

I do not understand how to use or read the Chlorine/CYA chart. I had a CYA of 0 so that is not even on the chart. If I want a CYA of 30 does that mean I want shock of 12 and then to put 12 in the pool calculator?

That's fine..we're heading for 30, it'll take a few days. How much CYA did you put in? Did you calculate the correct amount from the Pool Calculator?
I put 1lb of stabilizer in. The directions on the bag said 3lb for 10,000 gallon but pool calculator said 3/4 of a bag.

I am using 12% chlorine. I used the pool calculator for the amount I put in but I put 6 as the goal and not 12.

FC is .5
CC is 1.0

Do I need to take all the measurements again?
Mitch (Green)

 

[gboulton]

Now the pool looks GREEN! NOT GOOD!

Don't panic.

I do not understand how to use or read the Chlorine/CYA chart.

Find the type of pool you have - Non-SWG
Look up your CYA level - 30
Read the shock level for it - 12

That's all there is to it.

I had a CYA of 0 so that is not even on the chart. If I want a CYA of 30 does that mean I want shock of 12 and then to put 12 in the pool calculator?

Yes, because you've "dosed" to that level, so we're going to go ahead and work with it. We may need to adjust it later, see below...

I put 1lb of stabilizer in. The directions on the bag said 3lb for 10,000 gallon but pool calculator said 3/4 of a bag.

Ok...we'll probably be pretty close then. Might be a bit higher...around 40...that just means it'll take a bit more bleach...IF it gets that high, shock level will be 16.

Let's shock for 30 now, and see where we are in a couple days...you may need to adjust for it.

I am using 12% chlorine. I used the pool calculator for the amount I put in but I put 6 as the goal and not 12.

Ok, your goal is 12, as specified in the shock column of the CYA/Chlorine chart.

FC is .5
CC is 1.0

Do I need to take all the measurements again?

Watch pH. We probably won't have to worry about it, but let's just make sure it doesn't get wildly out of whack. Just keep it between 7.2 and 8, and that's fine for now. It shouldn't move much, you aren't doing anything to tweak it badly.

==============

Just have some faith here. The process is time tested and works, just follow it.

Read Turning Your Green Swamp Back into a Sparkling Oasis to remind yourself of where you're going, re-read How To Chock Your Pool so you're confident in your steps, and just have faith. The process may take a while, but it'll work, if you follow it.

 

[gboulton]

Look here too. Someone else going through the same process right now, and starting to see some success.

Just stick to it.

 

[foosboy2]

This is crazy! I have almost added 3 gallons since last night and the readings still read .5 FC and 1.5 CC. The TF 100 test reads .5 Chlorine and 7.8 PH.

I remember last year I almost 8 gallons in and nothing worked until I bought a new filter. I am starting to doubt the process!

Mitch (Doubting???)
Michigan
8000 gal, IG, Fiberglass, Jandy CS 200 Cartridge Filter, new filter August 2011
Free chlorine .5 ppm
Total chlorine 2.0 ppm (calculated I guess from FC + CC)
Combined chlorine 1.5 ppm
pH 7.6
Hardness 360 ppm
Alkalinity 250 ppm
Cyanuric acid 5 ppm

 

[gboulton]

Then you've got something wrong somewhere.

Your pool is bigger than you think, your chlorine isn't the concentration you think it is, the test is being performed incorrectly, you're calculating incorrectly, something.

Let's start from scratch.

Go do a FC test, and tell us EXACTLY the process, steps, and results. I mean, exact details. Precisely how much water in the tube, how big a scoop of DPD powder, which reagent you're adding, exactly how many drops to get it from pink to completely clear, and so on. Give us an exact breakdown of how you're performing the test.

Anyone else have input? Dave, Jason, BF?

 

[foosboy2]

I have a Trilogy Aquarius pool which is 13.5x31x5.11 with a shallow end. I personally spoke to the owner of Trilogy and he ensured me that they did a gallon test to verify 8000 gallons.

FC Test
1) I fill the clorine only cylinder to 10ml
2) I add two level scoops or 1+ heaping scoops of R-870 powder.
3) Mix
4) Keep swirling mixture and add drops, one by one of R-871
5) Multiply drops usually (1-3 drops) by .5 = FC
6) Add 5 drops of R-0003 to the solution and swirl. (mixtures turns back to pinkish)
7) Keep swirling mixture and add drops, one by one of R-871
8) Multiply drops usually (1-3 drops) by .5 = CC

K-1000
1) fill test both sides to line
2) add 5 drops of R-0600 to the yellow side and R-0014 to the red side.
3) Put cap on and shake well and match colors

Mitch

 

[foosboy2]

Just checked and we are going the wrong way!

.5 FC
2.5 CC up from 1.5 CC

Seriously, do I have some sort of impossible pool. I will say that I had this exact same issue last year. I seem to only have chemistry/balance issues after I add Stain Free with Metal Magic.

Gordon your the only one helping and your out also now?!?!?

Someone please help!
I don't know if I need to
1) add more chlorine or
2) add some ProTeam Micorfloc Clarifier or
3) do as pool store 1 said and buy a new filter or
4) do as pool store 2 said and add muriatic acid or
5) do as pool store 3 said and add ph down or alkalinity down

Mitch

 

[gboulton]

Why do you think you're going the wrong way?

Your CC is up, suggesting there IS chlorine, and it's doing its job.

I've already given you my suggestion...raise the FC to 12, and maintain it there until you have completed all the steps of shocking your pool.

Clearly, SOME chlorine has made it into the pool, reflected in the rising TC. Since you haven't been adding CC, then we must presume that your reading of .5 FC is incorrect. I can not, as stated previously, answer why your FC has not changed since yesterday, other than to suggest that some piece of information is either missing or inaccurate.

I, also, am hoping someone else will chime in with some suggestions for double checking your FC reading.

 

[Butterfly]

Gordon,

As Gordon said, you should maintain shock level of about 12 until you meet the three criteria that you are done shocking. See red lines in my sig.

Tonight, about an hour after your raise the pool to shock level (with pump running) , retest the FC & CC. Then, retest FC and CC before the sun hits your pool in the morning. Then let us know the results from both tests in the morning.

(I think I read something way back in this thread that a non-chlorine shock was used. This creates a chlorine demand.)

 

[foosboy2]

Guys I am taking measurements, but as far as chlorine I am not even measuring anymore. I put in a gallon last time and threw in a 1lb shock a few hours ago and nothing is chaning the chlorine reading so now what.

This is what 2 of the pool stores mentioned was happening. Something about something blocking something else which is why they suggested using the special shock. When that did not work they suggested a new filter.

Come on please give me some feedback or shoud I really just keep throwing chlorine at it?

BTW after the shock a few hours ago I just read again .5 FC and 2.5 CC with PH of 7.8

Mitch (not looking good)

 

[linen]

Guys I am taking measurements, but as far as chlorine I am not even measuring anymore. I put in a gallon last time and threw in a 1lb shock a few hours ago and nothing is chaning the chlorine reading so now what.

How soon after adding do you test?
What is the "1 lb shock" you are using?

Come on please give me some feedback or shoud I really just keep throwing chlorine at it?

Since you are reading high CC after adding chlorine, your fighting something organic. Chlorine is the way to fix this but you must get the level up and hold it. I would just use bleach/liquid chlorine for now.

Next time you add the chlorine, test 1/2 hour after adding with pump running on high and post your result for FC and CC.

 

[jblizzle]

I agree ... does not sound like you are following the shocking process described in Pool School. You need a lot of liquid chlorine.

I did not read the whole thread, but hopefully you have a good test kit and not relying on pool store tests.

Posted with Tapatalk ... sorry if I sound short ... hate typing on phone

 

[macgulley]

If you're still using the proteam shock and swim it is a non-chlorine shock so it makes sense that it wouldn't help raise your chlorine level. As others have said, stick with the liquid chlorine, check often and add until you reach shock level. Hang in there, it really will work.

 

[Ted Y]

You need to add about 2 gallons of 6% bleach until you reach an FC of 12 (24 drops) on your test.

 

[ultra800_96]

Hey Mitch,
Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but what was the Stain Free comprised of? Ascorbic or Citric acid? They in themselves will have a good chlorine demand till the acid is used up. I know myself, cause I did a stain treatment with Citric acid & am just beginning to hold a chlorine level now, after a full week. This may be your problem right now.
Dave

 

[ultra800_96]

And yes, keep adding liquid chlorine to it till it starts to hold. Although you probably have other organics also, I'll bet alot is the chlorine demand from the Stainfree.

 

[ultra800_96]

Just checked and we are going the wrong way!

.5 FC
2.5 CC up from 1.5 CC

Seriously, do I have some sort of impossible pool. I will say that I had this exact same issue last year. I seem to only have chemistry/balance issues after I add Stain Free with Metal Magic.

Gordon your the only one helping and your out also now?!?!?

Someone please help!
I don't know if I need to
1) add more chlorine or
2) add some ProTeam Micorfloc Clarifier or
3) do as pool store 1 said and buy a new filter or
4) do as pool store 2 said and add muriatic acid or
5) do as pool store 3 said and add ph down or alkalinity down

Mitch

Sorry to multiple post again, but I want to answer some of your questions..

1) yes, add enough chlorine to get to the shock level of 12. Test 1/2 hour later & let us know what it is. Can you get to twelve by adding enough chlorine? (182 oz of 6%) What does it measure after adding the proper amount?
2) Not necessary yet.
3) NO! If you can't hold chlorine, a new filter will do you no good at this point.
4) Only if your PH is high. If it is or reaches 7.8 or so, add enough to get to around 7.2 so the chlorine can work more effectively.
5) NO. Muratic acid does the same thing, only cheaper.

(I still think part of your problem is the StainFree Treatment you added is causing a bit or a lot of chlorine demand)

 

[gboulton]

Guys I am taking measurements, but as far as chlorine I am not even measuring anymore. I put in a gallon last time and threw in a 1lb shock a few hours ago and nothing is chaning the chlorine reading so now what.

Mitch,

I don't mean to sound harsh here...but I think it's time to be realistic.

That single statement above indicates what the problem is here. You're picking and choosing your own prescription of what to do, from a number of different sources, without a fundamental understanding of the impact of any of them.

1) "...as far as chlorine I'm not even measuring anymore."

Why not? If you're following the How To Shock Your Pool article, or the advice any number of us have given you here, then you understand that measuring is the core of what's happening. You absolutely must know how much chlorine is in your pool, so you can maintain a level of it that will attack and kill any organics in the pool. Without measuring, you're guessing, and wildly throwing chemicals in hoping for an instant fix.

2) "I put in a gallon last time..."

There's not a single set of readings in this entire thread that suggests 1 gallon of 12% pool chlorine is the right answer. This statement suggests, again, that you're just dumping chemicals in hoping for magic.

3) "...and threw in a 1 lb shock..."

Where to begin with this statement...

BF reminded us just a few posts above that "non-chlorine shock" can create a chlorine demand. If this is the same chemical that you just threw a pound in of, you're working backwards.

Nowhere in any resource you've been referred to is the recommendation given to add "shock"...nor has anyone here suggested it.

Finally, this forum and Pool School are positively littered with references to the idea that "shock" is a verb, not a noun...it's part and parcel of understanding this entire mindset.

4) "...nothing is chan[g]ing the chlorine reading..."

But the chlorine reading IS changing. Your Total Chlorine and Combined Chlorine have BOTH climbed after the addition of liquid chlorine. Both of these readings are moving in the direction you'd expect them to.

Had you read, and understood, the resources you've been referred to here, and the advice you've been given here, these two facts would have been clear to you.

==============================

Every person here wants very much to help you return this pool to a safe, attractive, enjoyable place. Not one person in this thread just randomly decided "You know what, let's mess with Mitch today!"

But BBB isn't some sort of "black art" or "magic". There is no magic bullet, Mitch. There is no single step you can take to clean this pool. Your pool has organic material in it. It must be killed, and removed. Doing so is a process. BBB is about understanding what that process is, and why it must be that way.

If you decide that you'd like to learn, and understand what's happening in your pool, why it's happening, and what steps you can take to control it, then carefully re-read this thread, and all the resources you've been given here to educate you.

If you'd prefer to be told what to do, and be given a magic cure-all that you can drop in your pool and see instant results, then you should most definitely follow the advice of one of the 3 pool stores you referenced earlier.

It won't matter which one. They'll all work equally well.