New pool owner, fighting algae after a winter uncovered

[TonyM]

Ok - still working on this beast. The water is getting better... can almost see the bottom.... not quite, but almost.

Been doing the shock, backwash, scrub routine religiously. I have quite the collection of empty bleach bottles :lol:

Latest test results (hour ago):

FC=20
CC=1
TC=21
TA=110
CH=240
CYA=55
pH=7.2

My question is - according to the chart, my shock level is 22 FC for 55 CYA. I am at 20, so i will be adding 70 oz of bleach before bed (to bring me up to 22FC). Should I also address the pH or TA tonight or let it ride for a while until the water clears up?

Another thing - I started running my vacuum to filter for a few hours today. Is that a good idea, or should i stick with the skimmer?

Tony

 

[linen]

I have quite the collection of empty bleach bottles

Then your doing it right :-D

Should I also address the pH or TA tonight or let it ride for a while until the water clears up?

Let it ride and finishing the shocking process first. ph results are not valid when the FC is over 10 ppm, so you shouldn't adjust it.

Another thing - I started running my vacuum to filter for a few hours today. Is that a good idea, or should i stick with the skimmer?

It is not going to hurt anything, other than having to backwash the filter more often.

 

[TonyM]

Then your doing it right :-D

I'm sticking with it, that's for sure. We know the per ounce cost of bleach for a several mile radius. Was tossing the jugs at first, but now I'm hanging onto them.

Might turn them into a really trashy looking set of party lights to string up around this thing when we are done.

 

[TonyM]

...Day 18 and still waiting to see the bottom.

Levels are all pretty good - cya down to about 50, CC at .5 or 0, ph at 7.3....

2 questions;

1. Will keeping the pool at shock level for this long do anything bad to the pool?
2. Is there anything else to help speed things along?

Tony

 

[duraleigh]

Levels are all pretty good - cya down to about 50, CC at .5 or 0, ph at 7.3....

You don't post the single most important one when clearing a pool.....what is your FC?

 

[TonyM]

oops - i said shock level but forgot to put it in.

As the CYA comes down (from 70 to 50, so far) we have been dropping the FC level to match (based on the chart). We have been at 20 FC since the CYA has came down, but we had storms today that added a lot of rain. tonight we were at about FC17. The rain hopefully is over, so I am going to runn the full test in the morning to see if the CYA has dropped any more.

 

[TonyM]

OK - Rephrasing my question from last night to be sure to get all of my info posted correctly.

Levels are all pretty good -

FC=25.5
CC=.5
TC=26
pH=7.5
TA=110
CH=220
CYA=50

Water temperature = 68F

2 questions;

1. Will keeping the pool at shock level for this long do anything bad to the pool?
2. Is there anything else to help speed things along?

I can tell the water is s l o w l y getting clearer (I can now faintly see the white scrub brush as it rests on the bottom) - I just want to make sure I am on the right path, and that I am doing all I can do to get this thing ready. The wife and kids are especially antsy, now that we are hitting 90F during the days.

I thought of another general question that I can add (probably dumb, but here goes): once this beast is conquered, how do we lower the FC? Another words - once we have a clear pool, I am sure there will come a time that we will need to shock. Once we bring the pool to shock level, do we just wait until it comes back to the target range before using it again?

Tony

 

[jblizzle]

1. Not likely, now if you were WAY over shock level, your vinyl could be bleached, but we are talking like double shock level.
2. Have patience. Backwash at 20-25% pressure rise. That is about all.

Why are they antsy to get in a 70degree pool? BBBRRRRRRR

Once you have a clear pool and maintain the correct FC levels, you will NEVER have to shock again (well, maybe the next time you open). You just let the FC levels drop naturally, mostly due to the sun breaking it down. Once the FC is below shock level with CC<0.5 and a clear pool, it is safe to swim.

 

[TonyM]

Why are they antsy to get in a 70degree pool? BBBRRRRRRR

I agree... I think that they will be just as antsy to get out, once they catch a cool breeze.

My levels seem to be holding well, so I am now only doing the full test about twice a week. I am not losing too much FC overnight now, and I am only having to add about a gallon per day to hold it in the 20-22 range. My CC's are almost non-existent (barely turns a pink tinge, immediately cleared with a single drop).

just to update my test results

FC=20 (CYA on last full test was 50)
CC=.25 (good guess - it is really only faintly pink)
TC=20.25

The water is getting clear, but still appears to be cloudy on that last foot of water on bottom (i scrub daily). I have been tossing some thoughts around about that;

I have 2 return jets (one about 20" from the bottom and one about 6" lower than the skimmer (i am running them both). I get really good circulation - not a whirlpool, but could that be making it harder to get the sediment to the top (where the skimmer can get it)? if so, should i only run the bottom return? or - should I swap to the bug and pull the water directly from the bottom for a few days?

Would putting my cover on it help to clear the last bit up?


Thanks,

Tony

 

[TonyM]

Still keeping it at shock, and now have the little jitterbug vacuum running to try to get that last foot of water clear. The water from the surface to 3 feet is crystal clear :-D .

FC=24.5
CC=.5
TC=25
pH=7.5
TA=110
CH=220
CYA=50

 

[linen]

Why are they antsy to get in a 70degree pool? BBBRRRRRRR

Why not, 70 is outright comfortable here. We were at 71 tonight and it felt great!

Keep it up TonyM, sounds like you are close!

 

[TonyM]

Keeping it up...

Wish this last bit would clear up. Ran that bug all day and apparently it likes to chase it's tail. Full-time job keeping it from doing circles in the center of the pool

 

[TonyM]

Day 20 (since I got the test kit... before that was wasted time and $)......

Does anyone know where to find the best deal on some patience? I don't mind buying in bulk, if the only place is Sam's or Costco....

I actually contemplate the damage that FC @ 26 would do to my body every time I scrub. If I could get in there and play Marco Polo, I think I could get this think to go over the clarity edge.

Will FC26 turn me into an albino? :lol:

Today, FC=26; CC=.5; TC=26.5 (only checking the rest weekly now, as it seems to be holding).

 

[Swampwoman]

Torent and Tony, remember that woman is defending her livelihood -- and buying the sloppy science fed her by sales reps

Should you ever speak to her again, you are free to refer to my thread (foreclosure-swamp-and-errant-pool-service-t43119.html) and show her the summary pictures-- the pool service left the pool black, in photo 1. The final photo is the result of TFP. The pool service nicked me $770 to get no result. TFP graciously taught me to do it myself, and more importantly, how to proactively maintain my own pool.

So you're in good hands

ps just realized I was responding to a post a few pages ago - dOH

 

[Swampwoman]

Hi again, tony - I skimmed the rest of the thread to catch up a little. My swamp took 12 days, but here's what made it go faster:
1. Bought a cheap "leaf gulper" from pool store that attaches to hose to create a bit of suction, got up three more wheelbarrows full of leaves left behind by pool guys, who had just kept trying to vacuum blind. Once I did this, things moved much faster. You mentioned you weren't sure if there were more leaves down there. My hunch is that there probably are.

2. Filtered and backwashed sand filter 24/7 no matter what -- frequently cleaned out skimmer and pump basket and cleaned o ring on pump seal to ensure maximum performance. Are you doing same?

3. There is a chance that if you've truly removed all organic material and you filter is going full tilt and you're still not clear in another week that your sand is worn out. This is something that needs to be changed roughly once every six years, so it's not likely. Just letting you know that from my own newbie experience if the water is holding shock and conditions 1 and 2 are fully met it's an outlier possibility. That said, when I recovered my swamp in April it was much cooler, which makes it easier to maintain chlorine etc.

I know it's hard to be patient -- first hand But seriously, you'll be in the swin in no time, truly. If you can post a picture, maybe we can spot something to help expedite. Eg a dark shadow obscuring leaves would be my hunch!

 

[TonyM]

Hi again, tony - I skimmed the rest of the thread to catch up a little. My swamp took 12 days, but here's what made it go faster:

12 days sounds like a dream

1. Bought a cheap "leaf gulper" from pool store that attaches to hose to create a bit of suction, got up three more wheelbarrows full of leaves left behind by pool guys, who had just kept trying to vacuum blind. Once I did this, things moved much faster. You mentioned you weren't sure if there were more leaves down there. My hunch is that there probably are.

I am pretty sure there are no leaves (or anything else) left with all of the scrubbing and vacuuming, but I could be wrong. The water is much clearer than when I was worried that there might be leaves left, as I can almost see the bottom now. Or 'bug' vacuum is bright yellow, and I can see it when it is on the bottom, but only barely.

2. Filtered and backwashed sand filter 24/7 no matter what -- frequently cleaned out skimmer and pump basket and cleaned o ring on pump seal to ensure maximum performance. Are you doing same?

the pump / filter has been running since the first of may 24/7 (backwashing at least once a day now - was doing it about 4 times a day 4 weeks ago.

3. There is a chance that if you've truly removed all organic material and you filter is going full tilt and you're still not clear in another week that your sand is worn out. This is something that needs to be changed roughly once every six years, so it's not likely. Just letting you know that from my own newbie experience if the water is holding shock and conditions 1 and 2 are fully met it's an outlier possibility. That said, when I recovered my swamp in April it was much cooler, which makes it easier to maintain chlorine etc.

Yea - it has been HOT over this month - many days in the 90's. 100# of sand is one of the 'you must buy now' items that the pool store lady talked my wife into buying on her last day ever in that store. I have it in the shop, as I am not sure if it is needed at the moment. I am getting a lot of dirty water when I back wash, and my pressure is building over the day like it should (don't think it is channeling).

I know it's hard to be patient -- first hand But seriously, you'll be in the swin in no time, truly. If you can post a picture, maybe we can spot something to help expedite. Eg a dark shadow obscuring leaves would be my hunch!

I am pushing to get it cleared up in a month (28 days), as I will be out of town next week (wife will be pulling the 3x a day pool duties while I am gone). I dont see it happening this week, but I am still trying by keeping it over shock level (in case I am mis-reading the cya numbers).

Tony

 

[Smykowski]

Swampwoman gave good advice. I'd elaborate only on two things.

1. Backwash only when filter pressure rises 20-25% from starting clean pressure. Sand filters actually filter a little better when they're dirty, so you don't want to backwash too often.

2. There are very few situations where changing sand is a good idea, and clearing an algae swamp is not one of them. You can deep clean with a hose if you want, but the sand was a couple million years old when you put it in the filter. A few more years won't make a difference.

Sand filters inherently take longer to clear a cloudy pool than cartridge or DE. Just have patience and keep at it.

 

[Swampwoman]

Okay, one more thought...if the bottom is still not clearing in another few days, perhaps there is still too much particulate on the floor, even if it's not leaves? (Tony, even if you CAN see your bot, truly if there is any organic matter sitting there it really will slow things down.)

I too have a sand filter and it really did not take 20 days to get the water crystal -- could see the bottom (and the remaining leaves sitting there) within a week). I would expect a sand filter to take maybe a week or two to turn over -- but I DID also use a floc agent that did seem to pull everything out of the murky bottom water and put it on the floor.
Maybe this is one of the rare cases where using a flocculent to drop the particulate would expedite?

Alternately, anyone have useful opinions about the viability of throwing a trash pump on the bottom of the deepest area for a short spell?
I realize this would mean adding a lot of fill water and that Tony's water has been painstakingly treated now...but I'm wondering if the volume of sediment from an entire winter open is just too much to filter out unaided...at least in any reasonably quick way. Just a thought, and perhaps a misguided one. I know the trash pump was going to be my plan B if I didn't make daily progress.

 

[Swampwoman]

P.S. I just checked, and my Hayward sand filter flow rate is 52 gpm, meaning it likely worked faster for me because it's twice the volume of your filter (my pool is 22k gal though). So perhaps my sense of how "fast" the filtering should take is skewed, or at very least, should be taken with a grain of salt You might be mere days from fully clear.

But if you do decide to try a flocculent, schedule it so that you have time 24 hrs later to do a good, very very slow, vacuum-to-waste with many skimmer and pump basket cleanouts in the process -- and it helps to pre-add extra water so that you can vacuum to waste longer. It also really really does help to use that leaf gulper BEFORE getting ready to floc, because a) it stirs up the sediment, which will take another day to clear out or settle and b) it grabs the twigs, bark, branches and leaves if they're there that will otherwise clog your vacuum.

If you're not familiar with flocculent, google it - there are a few youtube videos out there. In The Swim sells one that worked in my case (pool guy's didn't after 2 applications...but he was flying blind at that point and I waited until I had it mostly handled, so that's likely the difference -- floc doesn't really work well on leaves, more just on suspended particulate.)

If you do choose to floc, also note that you will not want to do anything to stir things up until you vacuum because otherwise you'll be starting over with flocking. The idea is that the stuff binds all particulate and drops it to the floor.

 

[TonyM]

1. Backwash only when filter pressure rises 20-25% from starting clean pressure. Sand filters actually filter a little better when they're dirty, so you don't want to backwash too often.

My 'clean' pressure is right at 10psi - I usually BW @ 13-14psi

2. There are very few situations where changing sand is a good idea, and clearing an algae swamp is not one of them. You can deep clean with a hose if you want, but the sand was a couple million years old when you put it in the filter. A few more years won't make a difference.

My thoughts on the sand as well

Okay, one more thought...if the bottom is still not clearing in another few days, perhaps there is still too much particulate on the floor, even if it's not leaves? (Tony, even if you CAN see your bot, truly if there is any organic matter sitting there it really will slow things down.)

[hand] Vacuumed about 500 gallons to waste today (the pool was over-full due to rains), then vacuumed to filter for over an hour. Checked the pump basket and found very little (a few small twigs, a few Japanese beetles and one or two bright green leaves). Kept on vacuuming until wore myself out - now back to the jitterbug for a little while.

...but I DID also use a floc agent that did seem to pull everything out of the murky bottom water and put it on the floor.
Maybe this is one of the rare cases where using a flocculent to drop the particulate would expedite?

Don’t know if this is one of the rare cases, but I am trying to stick to BBB as much as I can. With that said, if someone tells me to floc it, I probably will .