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Thread: Cloudy Pool after Opening (New at the Forum)

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    Cloudy Pool after Opening (New at the Forum)

    Hello all,

    I know this is covered in many places but I guess I am not quite understanding everything. I opened my pool a few days ago and it was quite cloudy (white). I can barely see the shallow end floor and see nothing in the deep end. I have my pump running continuous. I use borax for pH control and bleach for Cl. I have dumped about 18 gallons of 6% bleach in with the following results.

    pH 7.3
    FC 1.0
    CC 4.5
    TA 175
    CH 150
    CYA <30 probably closer to 0

    This is the first time ever my CYA has been low usually it is on the high side. The pool place said to put a gallon of muriatic acid in to lower the TA but I know it will also lower the pH so I was going to wait for a response from the forum. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated as I will be traveling out of town in 2 weeks and would like to have this pretty much resolved for my family with the heat pump and chlorinator on line.

    Thank you in advance.
    22K Gallon, 16x32 vinyl inground
    Hayward EC75A DE Filter with 1HP Super Pump, Heat Siphon Z575HP Heat Pump, Stenner 45M1 Peristaltic Pump for Cl addition, Taylor K-2006 Test Kit
    I use Borax - Bleach (6%) - Baking Soda

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    Re: Cloudy Pool after Opening (New at the Forum)

    You have high CC, and it looks like you should shock your pool. Follow instructions here pool-school/shocking_your_pool

    As for CYA, you will probably want to get that up to about 20 right away, then 30-50 after you finish shocking. You already have a good test kit, so you are ahead of most!
    EDIT: I didn't know CYA would convert to ammonia. Don't add CYA at this time, just follow shocking directions.

    I would do both of those things before worrying about TA at all.

    PS welcome to the forum!

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    Re: Cloudy Pool after Opening (New at the Forum)

    You'll have it fixed before long if you to listen to the wisdom given here.
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    Re: Cloudy Pool after Opening (New at the Forum)

    Quote Originally Posted by dadman50
    Hello all,

    I know this is covered in many places but I guess I am not quite understanding everything. I opened my pool a few days ago and it was quite cloudy (white). I can barely see the shallow end floor and see nothing in the deep end. I have my pump running continuous. I use borax for pH control and bleach for Cl. I have dumped about 18 gallons of 6% bleach in with the following results.

    pH 7.3
    FC 1.0
    CC 4.5
    TA 175
    CH 150
    CYA <30 probably closer to 0

    This is the first time ever my CYA has been low usually it is on the high side. The pool place said to put a gallon of muriatic acid in to lower the TA but I know it will also lower the pH so I was going to wait for a response from the forum. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated as I will be traveling out of town in 2 weeks and would like to have this pretty much resolved for my family with the heat pump and chlorinator on line.

    Thank you in advance.
    Based on your description, it sounds like you have CYA that has converted to ammonia.

    Do not add more CYA at this time! Continue to shock, using the shock process in Pool School, until you complete the shock process.

    Don't worry about TA or make any adjustments to TA at this time.

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Cloudy Pool after Opening (New at the Forum)

    Just echoing what BF said. Concentrate on the shock process and you can adjust everything once you've passed the OCLT.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
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    Re: Cloudy Pool after Opening (New at the Forum)

    Thank you all for your advice,

    I dumped 6 gal of bleach in last night. Cl results this morning as follows:

    FC 1.0
    CC 7.0

    It seems as if I am not putting enough bleach in at once but I am not used to putting this much bleach in to shock the pool. I dumped 9 gal of bleach in this morning along with 1 qt of Algecide 60 probably a waste but what the heck. I will check the results when I get home from work this evening, after I pickup more bleach and some cya for later. Should I try a non-chlorine shock treatment?

    I had read somewhere that raising the pH to about 7.8 but not higher can help in reducing the chloramines is this true?

    Every year I understand more why they say swimming pools are a nothing but a money pit.

    Thank you again.
    22K Gallon, 16x32 vinyl inground
    Hayward EC75A DE Filter with 1HP Super Pump, Heat Siphon Z575HP Heat Pump, Stenner 45M1 Peristaltic Pump for Cl addition, Taylor K-2006 Test Kit
    I use Borax - Bleach (6%) - Baking Soda

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    Re: Cloudy Pool after Opening (New at the Forum)

    Have you read the instructions for shocking your pool (in Pool School)?

    Are you using the Pool Calculator to determine how much bleach to add? What % bleach are you using?

    Algecide is not needed, and don't 'try a non-chlorine shock.' Just keep following the steps and your water will be clear soon!

    Don't worry about your pH right now...just focus on shocking the pool correctly.

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    Re: Cloudy Pool after Opening (New at the Forum)

    As posted above, it certainly sounds like you have had your CYA converted to ammonia over the winter. The end result is you will continue to use up VOLUMES of chlorine but it's the cheapest way to burn off that ammonia. Once that's done your FC will hold much better and the CC's will start to go down and you can then proceed with CYA and getting your pool back in good shape for the summer.

    FWIW, We don't think anyone knows the exact conditions that trigger that ammonia conversion but we have examples of it here on the forum every Spring.
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    Re: Cloudy Pool after Opening (New at the Forum)

    The test results this evening were:

    FC 0.5
    CC 5.0

    I have read the shock instructions in pool school and they do not address the issue I am having atleast not so I understand. I have used the calculator which tells me to get FC to 15 I should add 4 bottles of Bleach. So I added 4 (182 oz 6%) bottles of bleach 2 hours later I had the following results (No Change)

    FC 0.5
    CC 5.0

    Am I suppose to add bleach one after another until the FC is 15 or am I suppose to add 4 bottles at night and then 4 bottles in the morning until the FC starts to rise?

    Sorry if I am sounding frustrated because I am.

    Thank you for your help.
    22K Gallon, 16x32 vinyl inground
    Hayward EC75A DE Filter with 1HP Super Pump, Heat Siphon Z575HP Heat Pump, Stenner 45M1 Peristaltic Pump for Cl addition, Taylor K-2006 Test Kit
    I use Borax - Bleach (6%) - Baking Soda

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    Re: Cloudy Pool after Opening (New at the Forum)

    You are not alone in that w-a-a-a-ay too many people miss the point of keeping the shock level of chlorine where it needs to be. I think a goal we can all work on here at the forum is a concise way to verbalize this process so that fewer people misunderstand.

    This isn't even remotely concise but I will try to make it clear....

    The correct way to bring your FC to shock level (for example, say 20ppm) is to calculate the dosage using the pool calculator and then add that dosage.

    Then you have to understand that that 20ppm of FC starts to reduce IMMEDIATELY upon being introduced into the pool....sometimes at very fast rates if the organic content is high and then, sometimes slower if the organics in the water are not so high. Nevertheless, in theory, you never reach 20ppm because the CONSUMABLE nature of FC means it starts to get used up instantly.

    To counteract the consumable nature of Chlorine, you must, then CONSTANTLY replenish the FC in your pool by testing, calculating and re-dosing enough FC to bring your total in the pool back up to 20ppm. This is the part that many don't recognize.....the chlorine must be CONSTANTLY replenished because it is constantly being consumed. Once you grasp the idea of testing, recalculating and redosing the question then becomes, "How often?"

    The answer is "as often as practicable". In theory, because it is continuously reduced, it has to be continuously replenished....i.e. every second of every day. Well, in reality, that is WILDLY implausible so we get back to the answer above......"as often as practicable".

    So a typical shock process goes something like this......

    Test FC = 0ppm
    Calculated dose = 20ppm

    2 hours later....
    Test FC = 12ppm
    Calculated dose = 8ppm

    6 hours later.....
    Test FC = 12ppm
    Calculated dose = 8ppm

    Next AM........
    Test FC = 4ppm
    Calculated dose = 16ppm

    Next afternoon.....
    Test FC = 6ppm
    Calculated dose = 14ppm

    6 hours later....
    Test FC = 16ppm
    Calculated dose = 4ppm

    Next AM.....
    Test FC =16ppm
    Calculated dose = 4ppm

    That evening....
    Test FC = 16.5ppm
    Calculated dose = 3.5ppm

    ...repeated continually until your water is crystal clear and you lose not more than 1ppm overnight
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Re: Cloudy Pool after Opening (New at the Forum)

    Dave,

    Thank you for the explanation. You have made it a lot clearer. I am staying home today to try this out. I already put 5 bottles in at 0800 and at 0830 had FC of 16 and CC of 3.5. I will test it an hour later to see what it is doing and will continue this all day today.

    I will post my results tonight.

    Thank you again for clearing this up for me.
    22K Gallon, 16x32 vinyl inground
    Hayward EC75A DE Filter with 1HP Super Pump, Heat Siphon Z575HP Heat Pump, Stenner 45M1 Peristaltic Pump for Cl addition, Taylor K-2006 Test Kit
    I use Borax - Bleach (6%) - Baking Soda

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    Re: Cloudy Pool after Opening (New at the Forum)

    this should go at the beginning of the shock article. Pretty much 100% of people dont understand it. You could just cut and paste this post
    17,800 gallon, IG pool, 595 sq feet (17x35x4.5 avg rectangle), Hayward 525 cartridge filter, diamondbrite, 2 hp 2 speed hayward tristar filter, Stenner 45mhp10 automatically chlorinating

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    Re: Cloudy Pool after Opening (New at the Forum)

    Well, we have SO much info floating out here, it is easy to get overwhelmed. I think we can work on it and make it more concise but I have long campaigned for the need to explain this with more emphasis than we currently do.
    Dave S.
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    Re: Cloudy Pool after Opening (New at the Forum)

    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    Well, we have SO much info floating out here, it is easy to get overwhelmed. I think we can work on it and make it more concise but I have long campaigned for the need to explain this with more emphasis than we currently do.
    There is one point of disagreement I have with the shock process as you have concisely described. In a nutshell it concerns the following statement:
    Quote Originally Posted by duraleigh
    Then you have to understand that that 20ppm of FC starts to reduce IMMEDIATELY upon being introduced into the pool....
    Given the veracity of that statement, I have never understood why the initial dose should not be significantly greater than actual shock value. Meaning, if you know that the first dose of chlorine will be diminished greatly, and in short order, why not advise that target value for first dose should be 1.5X or 2X shock value? That wouldn't relieve further testing/dosing, but would give a better head start.

    I cleared my own green pool this year like that. I knew my shock value, but it was also very obvious, visually, that chlorine would begin to be used up immediately. So I put in somewhere between 1.5-2X initial dose, then followed up with usual testing/dosing at normal shock level. Pool cleared in a matter of days, instead of the multi-week sagas that we read of in the algae forum.
    20K gal IG plaster pool, Manually chlorinated with 6% bleach, 1.5 HP Sta-Rite Dura-Glas II pump, Pentair FNS Plus 48 DE filter, Polaris 280

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    Re: Cloudy Pool after Opening (New at the Forum)

    I think the concern regards possible damage to the pool itself. And in some instances, I imagine, there might be a chance that all that chlorine doesn't break down as expected and damage could result. But I'm guessing.
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    Re: Cloudy Pool after Opening (New at the Forum)

    It's all about what's fast but still safe for everyone's pool. And the rate of consumption is unpredictable.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
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    Re: Cloudy Pool after Opening (New at the Forum)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bama Rambler
    It's all about what's fast but still safe for everyone's pool.
    And in this case, the mustard algae level could be looked at as a maximum safe value, correct? So, if shock level is 20ppm, and let's say mustard shock is 37ppm (I made it up, but go with me for the example), is there anything wrong with targeting 25, and at every dose thereafter, bring back up to 25, that way it never, ever gets below the absolute minimum shock value of 20?
    33' round, 23,000 gal AG vinyl , 1HP 2spd PowerFlo Matrix downsized with 3/4HP impeller (X2), Hayward S180T 150# sand filter (X2), Hayward H250 NG heater Pool Store year 1 - $850 for 2 months; Pool Store year 2 - $440 for 2 months, TFPC year 1 - $170 for 4 months; TFPC year 2 - $95 for 4.5 months
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    Re: Cloudy Pool after Opening (New at the Forum)

    Well here is what I did today, I didn't quite follow the directions. I ran across a formula for calculating break point chlorination to get rid of chloramines and went for it. I am not sure how to attach a pdf file or I would show it to you.

    0800 added 5 (182oz) bottles 6%
    0830 FC 16 CC 3.5
    0930 FC 3 CC 3 added 3 (182oz) bottles 6%
    1100 added 8 (128oz) bottles 12.5%
    1530 FC 5.5 CC 1.5
    1600 added 4 (128oz) bottles 12.5%
    1700 added 4 lbs cya to skimmer sock
    1930 FC 17 CC 1.5 pH 7.0 (down from 7.2) added 4 (128oz) bottles 12.5% and started aeration

    The pool is starting to clear up but still a little cloudy. I don't smell the chlorine anymore this is a good sign. I have just enough dpd powder to check the chlorine in the morning. After that I will have to use test strips until the reagents for my test kit arrive (soon I hope) and I hate test strips. No one around me carries the reagents.
    Well I will see whats happening tomorrow.

    Thank you
    22K Gallon, 16x32 vinyl inground
    Hayward EC75A DE Filter with 1HP Super Pump, Heat Siphon Z575HP Heat Pump, Stenner 45M1 Peristaltic Pump for Cl addition, Taylor K-2006 Test Kit
    I use Borax - Bleach (6%) - Baking Soda

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    Re: Cloudy Pool after Opening (New at the Forum)

    Good Morning,

    FC 19 CC 1.0 pH an ify 7.0, added 1 box of borax

    I can actually see the bottom of the deep end, not totally clear yet though.

    Things are looking up

    More to do yet though

    Thank you all
    22K Gallon, 16x32 vinyl inground
    Hayward EC75A DE Filter with 1HP Super Pump, Heat Siphon Z575HP Heat Pump, Stenner 45M1 Peristaltic Pump for Cl addition, Taylor K-2006 Test Kit
    I use Borax - Bleach (6%) - Baking Soda

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