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Thread: proper order

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    proper order

    Ok, first, I'm using old chemicals while I wait for my TY replacements to come in the mail. That said, and unless the old chems are making the numbers waaay off, it appears I'm in need of CYA (always start at what appears '0' but I'm sure there's 'something' there), and of course bleach.. But my pH is around 8.0 and TA is through the roof at around 260 (always runs high, but not this bad).

    I'm heading out to start off with about 4# of stabilizer (will need to add more, I assume), and dump in bleach. But at what point should I add acid to get the pH down? Or could the old chems be that far off and I should wait till the new stuff arrives? Either way, what is the best order to add, etc? By the way, water is clear. Thanks!
    22,500 gal A.G., vinyl, sta rite crystal sand filter- Pentair Water Pool & Spa , Hayward Super Pump Self Priming 10" lift, BBB method

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    Butterfly's Avatar
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    Re: proper order

    Lower the pH to about 7.2 first.

    Then add chlorine and add about 30 CYA. Use sock method for CYA if you think you might need to backwash within the week.

    Later you can do the TA lowering process (acid/aeration) in Pool School.
    TFP Moderator TF100 Test Kit TF100 TestKit YouTube Channel PoolMath
    You're done SLAMing when:
    1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

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  3. Back To Top    #3

    made a mess of things!

    It's my own fault..Water was in it's way to be 'adjusted', but was clear. Long story short, I forgot we had to rig up a system to bypass a leak (it worked), but it entailed installing a bypass valve that would need to be turned when we backwashed. Ok, I forgot that very important part! So guess where all the backwash water ended up??!! So, I vacummed today and bottom looks good, but water is somewhat cloudy and area around ladder is murky shall we say. I did dump a gallon of bleach right over that area, just to say I did something! Don't want to waste bleach till I get others up...

    Here's where I am now...
    ph....8.0-8.2 (adding acid this evening per pool chart)
    Cl...not a lick of it
    CYA...35-ish (still have a hard time with this test, but in that range..more to follow on this topic)*
    TA...waaay too high 250....always an issue, but not this high

    Ok...checking to see if this will work. Add acid to get ph down to around 7.2. Then bleach (suggestions??). Regarding CYA...I'm toying with the idea of adding Cl tablets to our autochlorinator for awhile. The CYA is low enough (correct?) that it shouldnt get readings too high with it's use, and would allow a continual supply of Cl to help keep the Cl up (always a problem). I don't want to abandon bleach (preferred choice) but we will be in and out a lot this summer and would like to know we can be gone a few days without a swamp greeting us each time. If tablets are ok, how should I also incorporate the bleach...I mean once I get this under control? Thanks for any suggestions!
    22,500 gal A.G., vinyl, sta rite crystal sand filter- Pentair Water Pool & Spa , Hayward Super Pump Self Priming 10" lift, BBB method

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: made a mess of things!

    Your plan looks good. After adjusting the pH I'd add enough bleach to get to about 4 ppm FC now and you can use the tablets to get the CYA up if you'd like. Using tablets will also help get your TA down as they're acidic. You can add bleach while the tablets are in there to supplement the FC.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: made a mess of things!

    Well Bama beat me too it, but here is my take:

    Quote Originally Posted by spf30
    Ok, I forgot that very important part! So guess where all the backwash water ended up??!!
    Other than dumping junk back into your water, this is probably just a vac to waste, or filter and backwash correctly to fix this "accident".
    Quote Originally Posted by spf30
    Add acid to get ph down to around 7.2.
    Yes
    Quote Originally Posted by spf30
    Then bleach (suggestions??).
    Yes add bleach. What are you asking here...if you should shock or not? If you pool was not crystal clear before the "accident", or if your CC level is greater than 0.5 ppm, or if a OCLT (Overnight chlorine Loss test) is greater than 1 ppm, then you need to do the shocking process.

    Quote Originally Posted by spf30
    Regarding CYA...I'm toying with the idea of adding Cl tablets to our autochlorinator for awhile. The CYA is low enough (correct?) that it shouldnt get readings too high with it's use, and would allow a continual supply of Cl to help keep the Cl up (always a problem).
    Each 8 oz. puck will add 1.4 ppm of cya to your pool. Remember easy to add but drain/refill to remove.

    Quote Originally Posted by spf30
    If tablets are ok, how should I also incorporate the bleach...I mean once I get this under control?
    If you are going to use pucks, and you will be away from the pool some this season, I would only use them when you are away from the pool for a couple of days so that your cya doesn't go too high. Pucks and bleach are just sources of chlorine, so for FC you can use them interchangeably, though in addition to cya, the trichlor pucks lower ph, so you will need to watch that.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    frogabog's Avatar
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    Re: made a mess of things!

    Keep track of how many pucks you put in and stop when you have used enough to raise your CYA to 40ppm. That's not far off from 35ppm so you really can't use pucks for much longer if you would like to use them while vacationing. Unless you're targeting higher CYA due to extremely sunny and hot conditions (50-60ppm) 40ppm is as high as you want it to be. Personally I'd tackle the pH organically (acid), leave CYA at 35ppm planning for a 10-15ppm CYA rise after a week's vacation using pucks, and call it good.
    Where kids swim in 54 degree water, turn blue, and giggle happily cuz they got a POOL!
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    Re: made a mess of things!

    Thanks for the advice! I will give this suggestions a go. Linen, so not being a chemist, are you saying that for every tablet I use, that will bump me up one 'line' on the Frogabog, I have wondered if I shouldn't hike up the CYA. The pool is complete southern exposure and we go from mid 90s down to 80s then back up...in a cycle. So yes, it gets full sun the entire day and am constantly adding bleach. Should I shoot for 50? Any advice on the best way to read the CYA test? I follow the steps, but I'm ashamed to admit it...for the longest time, I kept seeing the dot...only to discover I was looking at my head reflecting in the tube!! Only telling on myself in case some else has a problem....hence, check to be sure you're not looking at your own head! But, that said, I do have a hard time with the whole 'dot' disappearing...any help??! Thanks!
    22,500 gal A.G., vinyl, sta rite crystal sand filter- Pentair Water Pool & Spa , Hayward Super Pump Self Priming 10" lift, BBB method

  8. Back To Top    #8

    sky high TA

    Posted yesterday trying to clear pool. Got the Cl up to 7 and pool seems clearer, but main concern is pH. We started at around 8.0-8.2, so I added approx 1.4 gal of acid last night. I was shocked to see the pH only dropped to around 7.8....then I tested TA and it's through the roof...stopped counting at 400! I didn't check TA for a few days, but the last time I tested I thought it was around upper 200's...but perhaps it was higher, and I just stopped wasting the drops! Obviously, I have to add more acid...knowing how little it budged with what I added before, should I be looking at 2 more gallons (how much can I add at a time/how long do I wait between gallons if I can't add all at once?)? How much of a drop should that make in the TA? And most important...it's going to be 90
    s today...can we still swim if Cl is at 7??? Thanks!
    22,500 gal A.G., vinyl, sta rite crystal sand filter- Pentair Water Pool & Spa , Hayward Super Pump Self Priming 10" lift, BBB method

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    Butterfly's Avatar
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    Re: sky high TA

    FIRST, before adding more acid, retest the TA using the extended test kit directions here:

    extended-test-kit-directions-t25081.html

    [s:15shhevj]What is your CYA level? Safe chlorine levels are based on CYA level.[/s:15shhevj]
    Yes, 7 FC is safe to swim with your 35ish CYA level.
    TFP Moderator TF100 Test Kit TF100 TestKit YouTube Channel PoolMath
    You're done SLAMing when:
    1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

    ~ One should not use a sledge hammer to swat a mosquito. ~

    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Re: proper order

    Ok, Butterfly, I retested using your link...only thing I did differently was dropping to 10 ml h20 to test. This time I got 300...so back to where I was originally. How long will it take for the 1.4 gal of acid I added last night to completely register (I assumed it would be 'as is' by now, but perhaps it needs more time). At any rate, I retested pH as well, and it may be between 7.5 and 7.8, but is still clearly pink, vs the more orangey range as it drops below 7.5. So now what?! Thanks!
    22,500 gal A.G., vinyl, sta rite crystal sand filter- Pentair Water Pool & Spa , Hayward Super Pump Self Priming 10" lift, BBB method

  11. Back To Top    #11
    linen's Avatar
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    Re: proper order

    With TA that high you should probably lower it or your ph will continue to rise quickly and it will take a lot of MA to lower it. See: http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-...l%20alkalinity TFP recommended range is 70-90 for bleach/LC chlorination.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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