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Thread: Questions on an Electric heat pump

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    Questions on an Electric heat pump

    Ok, I tried to modify the title of my original post, but it would not take.

    You have all guided me and I'm in agreement that electric makes the most sense, for our situation. I looked at the Hayward Easytemp, but the manual does not give AMP infomation. It says 220V, but the manaul says to read the plate on the unit to get AMPs, so here are some questions:

    1 - What AMP breaker is required, 40AMP?

    2 - The breaker for my 15AMP pool pump is 40AMP, can I simply run an outlet to the same breaker? (They will obviously run concurrently, so I want to make sure the draw isn't too high. Obviously question 1 plays a role here).

    3 -Aside from the eletrcial requirements, I assume a block or concrete pad, hoses, T or shutoff valves, what else is required?

    4 - for my pool, what BTU takes me to the point of diminishing return? In other words, higher BTU, usually means less run time. But at some point, too much BTU is almost overkill. So, what, is 50,000 BTUs enough for my 7,500 gallon pool?

    5 - Bypass? It says a bypass is required for any pump over 3/4HP. Can you explain why? I assumed it had something to with the chlorine gas buildup, but how does the size of the pool pump factor in to that??

    6 - Any other suggestions on the install, Make/Model, etc.? Where to purchase?
    18' AG pool, 7,646 gallons, Sun from 11:30AM-2PM.
    Pentair Dynamo 1hp pump, Intermatic Timer (6/17)
    Pentair Sand dollar filter - 100lbs, 35gpm
    Pentair Lil' Shark cleaner, TF-100 Kit
    Raypak 206A 200K, BTU gas (6/17)

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: Questions on an Electric heat pump

    1) The Easy Temp comes in different sizes, each requiring a different number of amps.
    2) No, they really ought to have separate breakers. If you were to share a breaker it would need to be 55 Amps (if the heat pump is 40 amps).
    3) You will probably need PVC slip to barbed hose adapters and a little pipe to connect them in.
    4) It takes way more BTUs than you can afford before you get to the point of diminishing returns.
    5) The heat pump has fairly small pipes inside. It can't handle more than a certain flow rate internally. If your system exceeds that you need an external bypass. However, the 3/4 HP pump spec is probably for in-ground pumps and you probably have an above ground pump, which doesn't move as much water as a similarly rated in-ground pump, so it is a near thing.

    6)
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

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    Re: Questions on an Electric heat pump

    I agree with most of what has been said already. I am not sure I understand the by-pass thing. My AquaTemp heatpump has all the flow for the entire pool going through it and has never been a problem. It has a 2" inlet and a 2" outlet and is not a limiting factor. As far as size of heat pump it really has to do with how much money you want to spend. I have an 80,000 BTU/HR unit for my 33,000 gallon pool. That is enough to raise the temp by about 1 degree every three hours. So, unless you really need to raise the temperature quickly you don't need a very big unit. No heat pump will raise the water temp as fast as a gas heater can, they just don't make them that big.
    20x40 IG vinyl, heatpump and solar and 3 siberian huskies, 10kw PV solar electric system. Nikon Photographer D800e dSLR.

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    Re: Questions on an Electric heat pump

    Quote Originally Posted by kirbinster
    I agree with most of what has been said already. I am not sure I understand the by-pass thing. My AquaTemp heatpump has all the flow for the entire pool going through it and has never been a problem. It has a 2" inlet and a 2" outlet and is not a limiting factor. As far as size of heat pump it really has to do with how much money you want to spend. I have an 80,000 BTU/HR unit for my 33,000 gallon pool. That is enough to raise the temp by about 1 degree every three hours. So, unless you really need to raise the temperature quickly you don't need a very big unit. No heat pump will raise the water temp as fast as a gas heater can, they just don't make them that big.
    Thanks guys. The note on the 80M BTU does give me an idea of heater performance, understanding of course that everything is relevant, such as wind, geography, etc. But it gives me an idea anyway.

    I can't understand why Hayward doesn't tell you what AMP you need for their heater pumps. Without more research, a customer would have to buy the heat pump first, look at the AMP plate on the unit, then hire an electrician to install it. Seems *** backwards to me. Just list what the required AMPs is, based on the size of the unit.
    18' AG pool, 7,646 gallons, Sun from 11:30AM-2PM.
    Pentair Dynamo 1hp pump, Intermatic Timer (6/17)
    Pentair Sand dollar filter - 100lbs, 35gpm
    Pentair Lil' Shark cleaner, TF-100 Kit
    Raypak 206A 200K, BTU gas (6/17)

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    Re: Questions on an Electric heat pump

    A similar 80,000 BTU heat pump shows the current draw at about 20 amps at 220 V. There will be some higher draw when it kicks on, so I would say go with a minimum of 30 amp breaker size and #10 wire for up to 100 ft, or #8 for longer runs. Please use a seperate breaker for your heat pump. Piggybacking off an existing equipment breaker (i.e. pump) would be a violation of code since you must have a clear point of disconnect. You should probably have a seperate disconnect switch, as well, for the heat pump for safety reasons in case someone comes out to work on it.
    John (DIYer). Concrete, approximately 13,000 gallon in-ground pool with adjoining concrete spa. Approximately 40 years old. Hayward Super II pump for pool and legacy Anthony Sta-Rite bronze pump CF6 for spa, VA-26 filter,(2 sets), Rheem propane heater for spa. HASA Liquidator for pool.

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    Re: Questions on an Electric heat pump

    I would think if you call Hayward they should be able to give you an answer. If not, all these units have similar efficiencies - some are slightly better or worse but they are close. The reason I say this is that you should be able to look at the draw of a similar sized unit from a different company and the electrical requirements should be very similar.

    Quote Originally Posted by joseywales
    Quote Originally Posted by kirbinster
    I agree with most of what has been said already. I am not sure I understand the by-pass thing. My AquaTemp heatpump has all the flow for the entire pool going through it and has never been a problem. It has a 2" inlet and a 2" outlet and is not a limiting factor. As far as size of heat pump it really has to do with how much money you want to spend. I have an 80,000 BTU/HR unit for my 33,000 gallon pool. That is enough to raise the temp by about 1 degree every three hours. So, unless you really need to raise the temperature quickly you don't need a very big unit. No heat pump will raise the water temp as fast as a gas heater can, they just don't make them that big.
    Thanks guys. The note on the 80M BTU does give me an idea of heater performance, understanding of course that everything is relevant, such as wind, geography, etc. But it gives me an idea anyway.

    I can't understand why Hayward doesn't tell you what AMP you need for their heater pumps. Without more research, a customer would have to buy the heat pump first, look at the AMP plate on the unit, then hire an electrician to install it. Seems *** backwards to me. Just list what the required AMPs is, based on the size of the unit.
    20x40 IG vinyl, heatpump and solar and 3 siberian huskies, 10kw PV solar electric system. Nikon Photographer D800e dSLR.

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    Re: Questions on an Electric heat pump

    Quote Originally Posted by hoosierrun
    A similar 80,000 BTU heat pump shows the current draw at about 20 amps at 220 V. There will be some higher draw when it kicks on, so I would say go with a minimum of 30 amp breaker size and #10 wire for up to 100 ft, or #8 for longer runs. Please use a seperate breaker for your heat pump. Piggybacking off an existing equipment breaker (i.e. pump) would be a violation of code since you must have a clear point of disconnect. You should probably have a seperate disconnect switch, as well, for the heat pump for safety reasons in case someone comes out to work on it.
    I'll probably just go with a 40AMP, since I have plenty of space in the panel and might go 100M BTUs. I hoenstly thought I had this conversation with the electrician last time, asking that a 40 be put in for future use. Maybe his response was that it was no big deal to add later, can't recall. Agreed on piggybacking, good point. The run is about 25', mostly all indoors, so 10 will be fine.
    18' AG pool, 7,646 gallons, Sun from 11:30AM-2PM.
    Pentair Dynamo 1hp pump, Intermatic Timer (6/17)
    Pentair Sand dollar filter - 100lbs, 35gpm
    Pentair Lil' Shark cleaner, TF-100 Kit
    Raypak 206A 200K, BTU gas (6/17)

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    Re: Questions on an Electric heat pump

    Quote Originally Posted by joseywales
    Quote Originally Posted by hoosierrun
    A similar 80,000 BTU heat pump shows the current draw at about 20 amps at 220 V. There will be some higher draw when it kicks on, so I would say go with a minimum of 30 amp breaker size and #10 wire for up to 100 ft, or #8 for longer runs. Please use a seperate breaker for your heat pump. Piggybacking off an existing equipment breaker (i.e. pump) would be a violation of code since you must have a clear point of disconnect. You should probably have a seperate disconnect switch, as well, for the heat pump for safety reasons in case someone comes out to work on it.
    I'll probably just go with a 40AMP, since I have plenty of space in the panel and might go 100M BTUs. I hoenstly thought I had this conversation with the electrician last time, asking that a 40 be put in for future use. Maybe his response was that it was no big deal to add later, can't recall. Agreed on piggybacking, good point. The run is about 25', mostly all indoors, so 10 will be fine.

    If you go with a 40 amp breaker, you need to use #8 wire. The reason being that if you overload the #10 wire (example, you draw continuous 35 amps), you could overheat the wire which might cause a fire or burn up the wire insulation. Even though your equipment is only rated to draw less than 30 amps, you could have an equipment failure in the future that might cause the amps to go higher, and you want to be sure that the breaker blows and protects both the wiring and equipment.

    It is never acceptable by code to put a larger breaker in for the wire rating. It is OK to put bigger wire in than the suggested breaker size, but will cost more money for the wire. The typical breaker/wire combinations are: #6 wire-60 amp breaker, #8 wire-40 amp breaker, #10 wire-30 amp breaker, #12 wire-20 amp breaker, #14 wire-15 amp breaker. These are typical for under 100 feet of run where no conduit is used. Also, your breaker is usually sized about 20% higher than the max rating shown on your equipment, but you have to use the standard sizes that are available,

    Sorry for the long explanation and I hope you are not confused by this.
    John (DIYer). Concrete, approximately 13,000 gallon in-ground pool with adjoining concrete spa. Approximately 40 years old. Hayward Super II pump for pool and legacy Anthony Sta-Rite bronze pump CF6 for spa, VA-26 filter,(2 sets), Rheem propane heater for spa. HASA Liquidator for pool.

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    Re: Questions on an Electric heat pump

    Thanks. No problem. Yep, I forgot about the 40AMP requiring 8. That's what I pay the electrician for
    18' AG pool, 7,646 gallons, Sun from 11:30AM-2PM.
    Pentair Dynamo 1hp pump, Intermatic Timer (6/17)
    Pentair Sand dollar filter - 100lbs, 35gpm
    Pentair Lil' Shark cleaner, TF-100 Kit
    Raypak 206A 200K, BTU gas (6/17)

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