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Thread: New to the board-First test results

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    New to the board-First test results

    Hello all, I am new to posting here but I have been studying and researching for the past few months.

    My TF100 test kit just arrived this morning, I have been holding off on posting until I had good readings for you,and would like would like some feed back, please.

    here is a little background on my equipment first.

    18' x 48" Intex AGP about 7400 gallons at the water level i usually run.
    Hayward 1HP pump with 18" sand filter.
    Hayward 100 heater
    aftermarket Hydrotools side skimmer.

    This years opening here got started early due to some fantastic weather. As per usual we drained the pool to about 8 to 10 inches and removed as much winter debris as possible. Filled the pool added 3 bags of shock and muriatic acid to a PH of 7.2 and began pumping/filtering. naturally we were very green/cloudy. 24 pump hours later the green was gone and just the cloudy remained. I stirred and agitated the bottom in an attempt to filter out more "stuff". Ran pump another 48hrs, backwashing frequently of course (figured that meant "the stuff" was going away. Ran pump another 24hrs and no change.

    I read about adding DE to a sand filter here so figured that the "stuff" was so small that the sand was not catching it. Also read about high T/A so I hooked up a soaker hose to my compressor and aerated for 24hrs. STILL CLOUDY.

    Really getting ***** now.

    Broke down yesterday and bought some WalMart super concentrated clarifier. This morning (Sat.) I could see the bottom of the pool! and the were random pockets of "****". Netted out what I could and stirred the rest for the pump. will vacuum later today to waste to get whatever the pump doesn't.

    I apologize for the long story, partly to vent and partly because after a week I feel like I am getting somewhere.

    Pool Water

    FC 5ppm
    CC 1ppm
    PH 7.5
    T/A 170
    CH 600ppm(yeah really!)
    CYA <20 (filled tube)

    Tap Water

    FC 2ppm
    CC .5
    PH 7.5
    T/A 240
    CH 580ppm
    CYA did not test

    The chlorine is with in workable range for me but the T/A and especially the CH are high. I really don't want my heater to look like my kitchen faucet so would really like to get the hardness down. any suggestions on this or any of my other results?

    Thanks again and Thank God for TFP

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    maxepr1's Avatar
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    Re: New to the board-First test results

    Cabinetman, lower your PH down to 7.2 and aerate. It will be easier with lower PH, maybe even 7.0. Next get bleach and start shocking with that. Look at my link in my sig. for the POol Calculator to see how much to put in. Right now your way to low. Also Walmart has Stabilizer (CYA) in the pool section. Wow, I thought I had hard water!
    40'x19' IG Diamond Brite 29K 4' Waterfall/Dive Rock FNS60 DE Inteliflo VS 2hp Whisperflo pumps Aqualogic(P4) SWG TF100 Tester


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    Re: New to the board-First test results

    Welcome to tfp, Cabinetman Good to see some more northern midwesterners here

    Looks like maxepr1 beat me... but here is my take:

    Your ch and fill water ch is very high, so you will have to be proactive on controling other paremeters to avoid scaling in your heater. Since your pool is vinyl, the only reason to worry about ch is due to your heater. Are you using the poolcalculator.com yet?

    In the poolcalcualtor, there is a section labeled Calcite Saturation Index (csi). It is an attempt to measure likelihood for scaling (and if you had a plaster pool, likelihood for pulling calcium out of the plaster). It is not the perfect indicator, but if you keep yours below 0.6 you should be okay with your heater. ph, TA, CH all have major impact on csi. You can not control ch since you fill is high, but you can keep ph and TA on the lower end of the recommended levels. Play with the poolcalculator a little, that will give you an idea of how changing one thing impacts csi.

    How are you planning on chlorinating this year?

    Like max said, getting some cya in there would be a good idea.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: New to the board-First test results

    Lowering the ph and aerated some more today are on the to do list but figured I would vacuum first before I throw the soaker hose in again. I have been using the pool calc but a few things confuse me. i.e. If I shoot for a CYA of 50 for example my target FC should be 6 according to the chart in pool school but in the calculator it lists a goal of 1-3 am I reading it wrong? Is that CC?

    Right now it lists my CSI at .33 which is OK?

    As far as the FC level being low I assume you mean that I should be at Shock Level of 10 because of low CYA?
    Other than the initial setup with the bagged shock I have been using liquid bleach but have only added 186oz of that so far because the cheap test kit I had registered way off the scale. Guess i will venture over to Lowes for that $1.29/ gal bleach and bring it to shock level.

    vacuuming will be a stair master workout today because if I go to waste I will have to add my high T/A tap water.

    Been looking into a salt free water conditioner for the house since the softener went to **** last year but they are $1200

    One more thing and I'll cut this off, if I raise my FC to shock level and add CYA will I ever get back down to regular levels.

    Thanks again for the help always have had a pretty decent pool years past playing mad scientist but I think with TFP I'll be more precise this year.

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    maxepr1's Avatar
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    Re: New to the board-First test results

    Quote Originally Posted by Cabinetman
    Lowering the ph and aerated some more today are on the to do list but figured I would vacuum first before I throw the soaker hose in again. I have been using the pool calc but a few things confuse me. i.e. If I shoot for a CYA of 50 for example my target FC should be 6 according to the chart in pool school but in the calculator it lists a goal of 1-3 am I reading it wrong? Is that CC?
    If i put your numbers in correctly, I get 4-8 and shock of 16. (CYA 50)
    Right now it lists my CSI at .33 which is OK?
    YES
    As far as the FC level being low I assume you mean that I should be at Shock Level of 10 because of low CYA?
    Other than the initial setup with the bagged shock I have been using liquid bleach but have only added 186oz of that so far because the cheap test kit I had registered way off the scale. Guess i will venture over to Lowes for that $1.29/ gal bleach and bring it to shock level.
    Good idea! It'll save you some money!
    vacuuming will be a stair master workout today because if I go to waste I will have to add my high T/A tap water.

    Been looking into a salt free water conditioner for the house since the softener went to **** last year but they are $1200
    That's expensive!
    One more thing and I'll cut this off, if I raise my FC to shock level and add CYA will I ever get back down to regular levels.
    Once you pass the shock procedure, you just let the FC fall back down to your proper level.

    Thanks again for the help always have had a pretty decent pool years past playing mad scientist but I think with TFP I'll be more precise this year.
    40'x19' IG Diamond Brite 29K 4' Waterfall/Dive Rock FNS60 DE Inteliflo VS 2hp Whisperflo pumps Aqualogic(P4) SWG TF100 Tester


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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: New to the board-First test results

    Quote Originally Posted by Cabinetman
    I have been using the pool calc but a few things confuse me. i.e. If I shoot for a CYA of 50 for example my target FC should be 6 according to the chart in pool school but in the calculator it lists a goal of 1-3 am I reading it wrong? Is that CC?
    FC level recomendations in poolcalc are based on the cya level in the "now" column and not the "target" column. It is done this way since cya typically takes awhile to desolve after adding (up to a week for the granuals).

    Quote Originally Posted by Cabinetman
    Right now it lists my CSI at .33 which is OK?
    Yes, though I would not hesitate to do the acid/aeration method some more to lower TA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cabinetman
    As far as the FC level being low I assume you mean that I should be at Shock Level of 10 because of low CYA?
    For a cya of 20 ppm, your shock level is 11 from poolcalculator, this is a minimum level to stay at until you pass the three criteria in: http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-...king_your_pool I wouldn't add any more cya to get to 20-30 ppm until you are done with the shocking process.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cabinetman
    One more thing and I'll cut this off, if I raise my FC to shock level and add CYA will I ever get back down to regular levels.
    The shocking process is a process, when it is done you will stop adding chlorine until your FC drops down in the normal range.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: New to the board-First test results

    Well the weather is starting to get a little better so better get going I will keep updating the progress here.

    It is amazing what I thought I knew and really didn't.

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: New to the board-First test results

    Sounds good, just keep in mind that some algae outbreaks can easily take a week to kill off, though I am hopeful that yours wont...new water and all.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: New to the board-First test results

    Hey,

    Welcome to the forum. I am going to offer a somewhat different focus. I think your pool is cloudy because it needs to be shocked and/or the powdered chlorine you have been using is Cal-Hypo and it is clouding your pool.

    1. Put in enough CYA to get to 20ppm or so

    2. bring your FC up to shock value per the FC/CYA chart in Pool School. Start the shock process now and plan on doing it for the next few days.

    3. Lower your pH down to around 7.2 but do not aerate. If you are experiencing Calcium precipitation like I think you might be, the aeration will make it worse by raising your pH back up. Disregard your TA for now and keep your pH down around 7.2 for the summer.

    Focus only on keeping your FC up around10-12ppm and your pH down around 7.2 A pic of your water may help, got one? Did that filter/pump come with the Intex pool or is that a seperate/upgrade purchase?

    So, whether your cloudiness is Calcium precip or just leftover dead algae (or likely both) you simply have to keep cleaning, keep shocking and letting that filter chug along until it gets your pool clear. What criteria are you using to backwash?
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
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    Re: New to the board-First test results

    So, whether your cloudiness is Calcium precip or just leftover dead algae (or likely both) you simply have to keep cleaning, keep shocking and letting that filter chug along until it gets your pool clear. What criteria are you using to backwash?
    You are probably right about the Cal Hypo it was a big box from Sams Club left over from last year I don't have the before pic of the pool but before the sun goes down tonight I'll take a pic. The cloudiness is nearly gone as of this morning because I hit it with the clarifier not crystal clear yet but I still have to vacuum. just broke my vacuum head so am off to get another one.

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: New to the board-First test results

    good post by duraleigh...lets focus on getting your pool free of algae, then deal with the rest.

    I would skip using the clarifier until you are finished with the shocking process...and then you may decide you don't need it anyway.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: New to the board-First test results

    [attachment=1:uwo7h2ar]DSCN1419.JPG[/attachment:uwo7h2ar]Update with pictures.
    FC 12.5
    CC 0
    PH 7.1
    T/A still 170 after adding 39oz of acid and aerating for about 6 hours

    Haven't vacuumed yet as I went shopping for a electric one so that i don't have to vacuum to the sand filter, so I don't have to backwash, so that I don't have to Fill with my high T/A water.

    Vacuum is on the charger and will do it first thing tomorrow morning.
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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: New to the board-First test results

    That stuff looks leafy and nettable...that's what I would do since until that stuff is out, it will eat up your chlorine.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: New to the board-First test results

    Actually it is not. Just tried netting and what it is is micro pulverized leaf parts that go right through the net. Makes a pretty green cloud though.

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: New to the board-First test results

    Quote Originally Posted by Cabinetman
    Actually it is not. Just tried netting and what it is is micro pulverized leaf parts that go right through the net. Makes a pretty green cloud though.
    Okay, sorry about that, I was hoping...
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: New to the board-First test results

    Just tried netting and what it is is micro pulverized leaf parts that go right through the net.
    I think it might be algae that has clumped together as a result of the clarifier. Nevertheless, it has to come out of the pool. Can you use a manual vacuum and sl-o-o-o-wly remove it? Can you do this by setting your multiport on the wast position? That would be best.
    Dave S.
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    Re: New to the board-First test results

    Ok pool is pretty clear now. looks like a couple of spots need a touch-up vacuum with the Pool Blaster and then when the water warms up a bit I can get in with the goggles and hit any spots i can't see now.

    test results this morning-

    FC 8.5
    CC .5
    PH 7.2
    T/A 170
    CYA 40
    Temp 56

    My question is do I still want to maintain shock levels (CC is less than .5, haven't done OCLT, water is clear.

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    Re: New to the board-First test results

    Best to maintain the shock level until you have passed the 3 tests ... looks like 2 are confirmed and may just be a matter of formality to run the OCLT.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
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    Re: New to the board-First test results

    Just had a thought. when I do the OCLT does it matter whether I have the solar cover on or not?

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    Re: New to the board-First test results

    Just wanted to thank Cabinetman and bluenoise for the soaker hose ideas. Just installed and started running mine today. For anybody else building one I used a 10ft long, 1/2" diam hose duct taped to a 3gal 3.7cfm compressor that cycles about every 3min. A very low 5psi seems to work well. Surely a larger tank and more narrow hose would be better but it's what I had lying around.
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    24'x16' Doughboy vinyl AG 10K gal, sand filt, 1.5hp pump, 110gpm approx flow

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