New fiberglass pool is full of cracks... HELP!

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I dunno... Maybe it's the *_______________* <----(insert word of choice there) in me but the more I read the more I get red-faced over this and would NOT accept anything but a brand new pool or my money back to go elsewhere.

I just can't seem to get over the fact that they feel it's good enough and that wouldn't fly with me. I'd go as far as asking him to bring his brand new car/truck over so I could break it in for him. :mrgreen: I'm licensed. :lol: It should be cool. :cool:

When I was married to my ex-husband, we had a guy come in and install windows and I heared him say EFF IT! I asked him WHAT?! and he wouldn't answer. Then it would fly out of his mouth again! I told him if I heard him say that one more time, I'd send him packing! I sent him packing!
 
Turns out I can't meet with the attorney until tomorrow, but I was able to have a good phone conversation with her this morning to get some guidance on how to proceed right now.

In the meantime, I called the concrete guy and told him to not do any further work (I'm paying for the decking on my own, though using the person recommended by the builder).

Spoke with the builder. He repeated his insistence that this was just a cosmetic problem that can easily be fixed, and that replacing the shell is not necessary. Further, he insists that the pool WAS set properly. He said that night, they checked and it was within 3/4". I replied that it probably did shoot relatively level when first placed in the hole, but once filled with water, with something under the middle of the pool propping that section up, the ends then dropped under the weight of the water until they contacted the sand. He also said that the industry standard is 4 inches. 4 inches?!? What I've read is 1 inch over a span of 40 feet.

Further, he claims that the pool ended up unlevel because of rain that happened 2 days later (in other words, implying that he intends to use the "it was mother nature's fault, not mine" defense).

Keep in mind, when this rain came, the pool was full, and the sump pump was operational (so water did not build up underneath the pool). Yet he is claiming that somehow the rain caused sand to move from underneath the shallow end, causing it to drop an inch and a half, though he apparently has no explanation for how the deep end also somehow managed to drop an inch and a half as well (he seemed to forget that the deep end was lower too, not just the shallow end).

And I do have that picture that shows the middle of the pool was higher, the morning after the set (before the rain).

--Michael
 
I feel for you man, for everyone that is fuming and saying "I'd do this" and "I'd do that"....give the guy a break, it's easy to say what we'd do when were not involved, he can demand whatever he wants but the PB can just say "No, keep your remaining cash" and walk from the job and take his chances under litigation (if any), I'm sure he's got enough stress without people piling on and simplifying a resolution.

It sounds like PB is starting to put up his defense of "it was an act of God", if he's starting to put that out there than that's probably not good.

Whatever you decide to do, protect yourself for the future (which you clearly are) - which likely means squaring up with a lawyer on how to proceed.
I hope this works out in the end.
 
Actually, regarding using the pool - run that by your lawyer.
I can see PB claiming that the cracking was cosmetic but your swimming in the pool before he could properly "fix" it caused the pool to deteriorate and thus become your problem - not his. You don't want to give the guy any cheap excuses or wiggle room.
 
The only people who have swam in our pool so far are the kids of the tile/brick installer a week or so ago (while my kids sadly watched through the window, since I had told them we needed to wait until the pool was done)... don't even get me started on that. (edit: I wasn't home at the time)

The builder called back a little while ago and really wants to have the manufacturer repair the cracks. He essentially said, "if this goes to court, the judge would see that we wanted to try and fix the problem but you wouldn't let us." I responded that repairing the gelcoat cracks does not address my main concern that this will quite possibly be an ongoing problem with repeated repair and possible warranty replacement in the future (at which time, the associated costs will fall on me).

I'm honestly still not completely opposed to a solution less drastic than tearing out the shell. If the cracks were fixed and the manufacturer gave written ironclad assurances that the warranty was still effective, plus substantial compensation from the builder, I would probably be ok with that... I'm a reasonable person (probably to a fault, I admit), I just don't want to get screwed and be left holding the bag here.

--Michael
 
Man, that's a tough one.
He's got a point but you have a good counter point, just goes to show why a (good) lawyer needs to be involved (and not one that's just heck bent on going to court no matter what). One has to think if the PB and manufacturer claim it can be "fixed" than that's gonna have some weight with a judge (who isn't a fibreglass pool specialist).

I'm certainly no pro but I'd think you'd at least need some counter weight, ie: an expert in the field who claims it can't be fixed.
Can you get an industry second opinion?

One thing you may want to ask your lawyer: how does this legally impact you if you should sell your house? In your state, would you have to disclose this to a potential home buyer and if you didn't, and the purchaser found out or the pool failed on them, are you liable in any way? Not to mention are you morally obligated to tell a potential buyer - in which case selling your home becomes harder.
 
cramar said:
I'm certainly no pro but I'd think you'd at least need some counter weight, ie: an expert in the field who claims it can't be fixed.
Can you get an industry second opinion?
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Yes, that would be one of our next steps if it comes to that... have someone who can state that although the gelcoat cracks could be fixed, that would not address the cause of those gelcoat cracks.

The builder tried to compare my situation to that of someone whose pool received spider cracks during transport or while it was being lifted by the crane. I explained that in a case like that, the factor that caused the cracks was temporary and no longer in place. The cause of these cracks was stress put on the structure as a result of how it is resting in the hole, stress that still remains. Now, maybe it won't crack again... but I'm not sure if anyone can tell me one way or the other for sure.

One other thought my wife and I had, a possible solution that would address our concerns while not being quite as painful to the builder... he could drain it, pull it out of the hole, have the manufacturer fix the cracks, then reset it properly. He'd still have expenses (his own labor, subcontractor, crane, brick/tile, etc.), but that would be a lot cheaper than having to do all that plus pay for a replacement shell.


One thing you may want to ask your lawyer: how does this legally impact you if you should sell your house? In your state, would you have to disclose this to a potential home buyer and if you didn't, and the purchaser found out or the pool failed on them, are you liable in any way? Not to mention are you morally obligated to tell a potential buyer - in which case selling your home becomes harder.
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Good question... I'll ask.

--Michael
 
All I can say at this point is good luck to you. You are in a terrible situation and I hate that you and your family are going through this. I will also add your pool builder sounds like a you know what and I would do my best to warn any other potential customers about him.

I can understand the "act of God" clause in some situations but not in yours. Sand does not shift even from water flow unless there is a void for it to flow into.

I hope things work out for you. Please keep us informed.
 
One other thought. Has he had this happen before and repaired it successfully? If so how long ago and can you take a look at that pool and talk to the owners about their experience?
 

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Why would a tiler have his kids swimming in that pool?!!!!!!! :shock:
 
Just an FYI I am a builder and on the back of our contracts it has a statement that once the homeowner swims in the pool you are accepting it as is and I am free and clear of it. What brand of shell, please pm me with that. I am pretty sure sure I know which one but I want to be sure before I comment on installation.
 
on the back of our contracts it has a statement that once the homeowner swims in the pool you are accepting it as is and I am free and clear of it.
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Does the same thing apply if your (as PB) tile guy's kids swim in it without permission? Just curious.

Also, I am curious why you put that on the back of the contract and not the front? That would seem something you would want the homeowner to know.
 
mcaswell said:
The builder tried to compare my situation to that of someone whose pool received spider cracks during transport or while it was being lifted by the crane. I explained that in a case like that, the factor that caused the cracks was temporary and no longer in place. The cause of these cracks was stress put on the structure as a result of how it is resting in the hole, stress that still remains. Now, maybe it won't crack again... but I'm not sure if anyone can tell me one way or the other for sure.
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One consideration you may not have thought of yet regarding future cracking... If the cracks were indeed caused by an uneven installation, i.e. a high spot in the middle, what will happen in the future when you need to partially drain it? Will the shell "flex" again, causing more cracks?

Sorry for your problem...
 
mcaswell said:
Casey said:
Why would a tiler have his kids swimming in that pool?!!!!!!! :shock:
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Don't know... I guess they had the day off from school (it was the Monday after Easter), and he decided to let them swim while he worked. Didn't ask permission, and the pool didn't even have chlorine at the time.

--Michael
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That is just unacceptable IMO! WOW! :shock:

I need to shut up! URGH! OMG! BE QUIET! QUIET! QUIET! :grrrr:
 
Beez said:
mcaswell said:
The builder tried to compare my situation to that of someone whose pool received spider cracks during transport or while it was being lifted by the crane. I explained that in a case like that, the factor that caused the cracks was temporary and no longer in place. The cause of these cracks was stress put on the structure as a result of how it is resting in the hole, stress that still remains. Now, maybe it won't crack again... but I'm not sure if anyone can tell me one way or the other for sure.
Click to expand...
One consideration you may not have thought of yet regarding future cracking... If the cracks were indeed caused by an uneven installation, i.e. a high spot in the middle, what will happen in the future when you need to partially drain it? Will the shell "flex" again, causing more cracks?
Click to expand...

Yes, exactly. The pool is essentially like a spring, the middle higher and the ends held down 1.5" by the weight of the water... remove that water, and almost certainly the ends will rise back up to the original shape of the pool, not only causing more gelcoat cracks, but also very likely trashing areas of the brick, tile, and decking.

Of course, I can tell you precisely what the builder's response would be... "but you never need to drain a fiberglass pool."

--Michael
 
Casey said:
mcaswell said:
Casey said:
Why would a tiler have his kids swimming in that pool?!!!!!!! :shock:
Click to expand...

Don't know... I guess they had the day off from school (it was the Monday after Easter), and he decided to let them swim while he worked. Didn't ask permission, and the pool didn't even have chlorine at the time.

--Michael
Click to expand...

That is just unacceptable IMO! WOW! :shock:

I need to shut up! URGH! OMG! BE QUIET! QUIET! QUIET! :grrrr:
Click to expand...

Yes, it was upsetting to our kids, and also to my wife and I... we wanted to do something like all of us jump in simultaneously to officially "open" the pool, which we could still do of course, but it won't quite be the same knowing that we weren't the first people to swim in our pool.

In the grand scheme of things, it's rather insignificant though.

--Michael
 
A new wrinkle...

fail.jpg


The pool has failed its "preliminary drainage inspection". Actually, in my research, this inspection was supposed to be called for after the dig and dirt removal, but before the shell was installed.

As with the unlevelness problem, this one too does not come as a surprise. The morning of the dig, after greeting the builder and talking to him for a bit, we went into the backyard to find the install crew busy spraying out the precise position of the pool (the builder had sprayed it out a week or two before, so that paint had mostly faded, but he had placed a couple of bricks to indicate the centerpoints at each end). I noticed that on the right side, it looked like the pool was going to be a little closer to the fence than the required minimum 5ft. (and way closer than the 6ft. the builder had indicated on the drawing submitted to the permit office), and pointed this out to them. "Oh, that's just overdig... the pool itself won't be that close to the fence" was the response.

The next morning (after the pool had been set the night before), I noticed that the pool edge was indeed about 3 or 4 inches too close to the fence, and brought this to the attention of the installer (who, again, is a subcontractor), thinking that if we need to shift the pool over a few inches, that was the time to do it, and he said he'd talk to the builder about it. Hours later the builder stopped by for a quick visit, and I asked him about it. He said the installer had talked to him about it, and he wasn't worried... he said the inspectors only care about making sure there's no net fill left in the yard (in other words, all the dirt has to be removed), and would not care or notice that the pool was a few inches too close.

Obviously this was not the case, as my lawyer (who happened to be meeting with me at my home) and I watched the building inspector first approximate a measurement with his arms, then go retrieve a ruler from his truck.

The builder is talking with the permit office to see if he can get an exception if he takes other remediation steps (such as placing a drain pipe underneath the decking to allow water to flow past without being diverted into the neighbor's yard).

But obviously, if denied, this could change the entire dynamic of this situation.

--Michael
 

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