Bought a foreclosure, fixing pool

[brainchasm]

Hi all! First post, just found the site the other day.

I bought a foreclosure on 11/1/11, with a small, odd-shaped in-ground pool by Blue Haven. Not sure the material, but it's gritty, has a few patches of light damage, and very hard. Using the formulas provided here and some guesstimating, it's between 5000-6000 gallons. I'll post pics tomorrow or so, but it's basically two hexagons, each one 11' across, joined in the middle by a 5' x 4' section. Shallow end is 3' (I think, maybe 4'?), deep end is 5'6" - 6'.

So, I got the pool as-is, brewing a bit of leaf tea. Honestly the water looked decent, and it was just a matter of getting and keeping the leaves out. As it warmed up, I finally decided to check my various chemicals...

110ppm TA
7.5 pH
770ppm CH
120ppm CYA
0.0 FC

So...I decided to drain it and start from scratch, especially after reading here about how much easier it would be to work with a low CYA around 20-30ppm. I checked our groundwater levels (Las Vegas), and then realized the pics of the pool on realtor.com were taken when it was empty, so I figured it was safe from floating up. Shame though, since the other numbers (aside from FC obviously) looked decent.

Couple hours with a little electric pump rented from Home Depot, and we're empty! I took a little pressure washer (the cheapie ones you put on a garden hose), sprayed everything down, and realized the decking stone is sandstone...and it likes to fall in the pool. Must have pulled out ten pounds of combined grit and ground up pool surface when all was said and done!

I filled it back up, threw a one pound bag of Walmart shock in it, and gave it time. I thought that stuff had CYA in it, but apparently not as my CYA levels are unmeasurably low/non-existent. This was back on 4/9/12. Also threw a 3" puck in my float.

So tonight I tested, my pH is too high (8.2), found no FC and no CYA still, so I tossed another bag of shock (super this time), and bought but have not yet added a 4lb can of CYA. After an hour, FC tested off the scale (brown brown brown!), I didn't bother testing CYA since the shock makes the water cloudy anyway. It should be clear enough to test tomorrow evening. I'll probably end up adding a half pound, testing over the next week, and then repeating as necessary to hit my targets.

My plan is to get CYA to 20-30ppm, then get TA, CH, and pH where they need to be, and finally go BBB and call the pool open for business!

So that's it so far, and thanks for such a wonderful resource! Any comments, thoughts, and warnings are welcome. I have read all the Pool School sections that were appropriate, so advanced manual stuff is also welcome!

 

[duraleigh]

Welcome to the forum. :lol: BBB is all about measuring carefully, testing carefully and knowing what will happen when you add chemistry to your pool.

1. Are you using the Pool Calculator to calc your dosages?

2. If the "shock" (shock is a process, not a noun) you are using is making your water cloudy (it's probably cal hypo), stop using it. Use liquid chlorine. You will be draining your pool again if you continue using that product.

3. Before you put in ANY more chlorine (or anything else), you need to control your pH. Let the chlorine get back below 10ppm and then test and lower pH into the 7's and keep it there.

4. next, calculate the dosage and then add enough CYA to get to 30-40ppm.

It sounds like you cannot test FC above 5ppm, CH, or CYA is that correct?

 

[brainchasm]

1. Yup, using pool calculator

2. It IS cal hypo, but I thought since there is/was no FC and no CYA yet, that would be fine if it added some. I need a bit of CH anyway.

3. The reading said adding CYA will drop my pH, so my thought was to do that next and kill two birds with one stone...

4. The dose I'm looking at for CYA to hit 30 or so is three cups. Makes me sorta grumpy I bought this 4lb thing, but that's all they had.

As far as pH control, I can't seem to find 20 Baumé muriatic online at Home Depot or Lowes, just the weaker stuff. Is it there and they just don't advertise? HD had a MSDS on their site for it, but nothing in the actual retail part of the site.

Current numbers (I don't have my log sheet in front of me, so this is from memory of last night's tests):

pH - 8.2+
FC - 10ppm+
CYA - 0
TA - 150ppm
CH - 320ppm (but, my test only does total hardness, so divide by 2/3 to get calcium without magnesium), so about 213ppm
Salt - 0/not measured/none added
Borates - 0/not measured/none added

Also, confirmed the pool is 5'6" deep end and 4' shallow end.
Calculator says shallow end hexagon would hold 2800gal if it was a circle, but it's not so it's less. Deep end numbers would be 3900gal, and center section should be 670gal. Total would be 7370gal, but since they're not circles, I'm guesstimating 6500gal total.

(if anyone has a formula to calc the volume of a hex-sided cylinder in gallons, that'd be awesome. )

 

[duraleigh]

By far, the best thing you can shock and maintain your pool with is liquid chlorine. Everything else has the potential for problems.

I don't think the CYA will lower your pH enough to make enough difference. Perhaps you can find some full-strength muriatic in a paint store.

I'll bet your close enough for dosing purposes to use the circular size of the pool you have calculated although I'll bet someone posts that formula :lol:

 

[brainchasm]

Did some digging, figured out pool volume. Best number to work with is 6000gal.

You wouldn't believe how I had to figure it out when the only info I had on-hand was knowing the corner to opposing corner measurement was 11ft...

 

[scottbo1]

As far as pH control, I can't seem to find 20 Baumé muriatic online at Home Depot or Lowes, just the weaker stuff. Is it there and they just don't advertise? HD had a MSDS on their site for it, but nothing in the actual retail part of the site.

Not sure of your location, but most HD's carry 1 gallon 2 packs of acid in the garden center.

 

[brainchasm]

As far as pH control, I can't seem to find 20 Baumé muriatic online at Home Depot or Lowes, just the weaker stuff. Is it there and they just don't advertise? HD had a MSDS on their site for it, but nothing in the actual retail part of the site.

Not sure of your location, but most HD's carry 1 gallon 2 packs of acid in the garden center.

Yeah, I saw those, but they look to be 15% or less. Trying to work smarter, not harder.

Numbers for today!

FC - 1 (lol, bye bye unprotected chlorine!)
pH - 7.8

Other stuff I didn't check, no reason until I get FC, CYA, and pH dialed in.
pH looks decent, so I added my three cups of CYA! Once it's completely dissolved I'll check CYA levels. In the meantime, throwing in some bleach to keep it from going sideways.

 

[chiefwej]

You can buy 29% or 30% acid at most pool stores for a bit more than 15% at HD or Lowes. If you don't find it just use the 15 and adjust quantity. You won't be using huge quantities anyway.

 

[brainchasm]

You can buy 29% or 30% acid at most pool stores for a bit more than 15% at HD or Lowes. If you don't find it just use the 15 and adjust quantity. You won't be using huge quantities anyway.

Understood, and thanks!

 

[brainchasm]

So, adding bleach made me want to check my numbers!

pH - 7.6, maaaaaybe 7.7
FC - 3, maaaaaybe 4
CYA - untested, but three cups were added per pool calc to achieve 30ppm. Will test once it has all dissolved.
TA - 150-160ppm (do you call it when you can see it had a total change but it just barely red, or on the next drop when it is definitively red?)
CH - 310-320ppm (but, my test only does total hardness, so divide by 2/3 to get calcium without magnesium), so about 213ppm. Also, same question about color change as above.
Salt - 0/not measured/none added
Borates - 0/not measured/none added

So, the math is working perfectly (24oz of 6% bleach to go from 1ppm to 3ppm, and that's exactly what it did!)...

Methinks it's time for borates? Did some more reading, and no, it's not time for borates...it's time to lower my TA. Then rebalance my pH. THEN...then it's time to add borates.

[eta] the CSI numbers are also working out perfectly!

 

[brainchasm]

Just another update/running log:

Didn't check FC last night at sundown, was busy with other things. Checked today around 1pm.

pH - 7.7-7.8
FC - 1.5-2
CYA - 30ppm! Right on target!
TA - 150-160ppm
CH - 310-320ppm
Salt - 0/not measured/none added
Borates - 0/not measured/none added

I'll put another 24oz by vol of bleach in tonight before I head out to dinner.

So I'm running the solar heater thing on the roof now, but it complains that all the sensors are bad, so it won't do anything automatically.
Whatever, once it actually gets warm, Las Vegas summer days won't let it cool off, so I'm not concerned.

A recurring thought about my TA...should I bother dropping it? I want to add borates now, but my TA is a bit high...but if the only side effect is my pH not wanting to move (and it's pretty close to ideal right now), should I care? CSI numbers with TA at 90 or at 150 are both acceptable.

[eta] Forgot to add the kicker! I have no aerating features, and my returns don't aim, so I can't break water surface...with that caveat, if I wanted to drop TA and then return the pH, what would you recommend? Anyone?

Thoughts?

Also, couldn't find Borax at Wal-Mart, grrr.

 

[chiefwej]

No need to run full tests daily. if you have good numbers and aren't shocking the pool you can just do OTO chlorine and pH test daily and full test about once a week. Some tests of things that are slow to change like CYA and CH can go even longer between tests. No point in using all your reagents in a month.

 

[duraleigh]

bc,

Nice work! You're gettin' the hang of it.

I think if it were my pool I would leave the TA alone for now and, for that matter, the borates as well.

If your pH stays in a happy place (it almost always rises SOME) then there really is not much need for TA adjustment.

Same with borates. I have always considered it an optional item and you will be perfectly capable of maintaining a sparkling pool without it.

Both of these items can be addressed at any time down the road. The rest of your numbers look pretty nice. How does your water look?

 

[brainchasm]

bc,

Nice work! You're gettin' the hang of it.

I think if it were my pool I would leave the TA alone for now and, for that matter, the borates as well.

If your pH stays in a happy place (it almost always rises SOME) then there really is not much need for TA adjustment.

Same with borates. I have always considered it an optional item and you will be perfectly capable of maintaining a sparkling pool without it.

Both of these items can be addressed at any time down the road. The rest of your numbers look pretty nice. How does your water look?

Water looks good. I declared it fit for humans last night, and took my first swim with a friend. A little chill, but felt great!
Went for another swim today, still fine.

Tested numbers after our swim, and since it's about sundown:

FC 2
pH 7.8
TA 150-160ppm
CYA Seems like less than 30ppm. I filled the tube to the top, could just see the dot at the bottom. I'll keep an eye on it.

And...

adde 34oz of 31.45% MA a few minutes ago. Will test pH in an hour, looking for 7.0. I want that TA down, since I managed to buy 3 boxes of borax yesterday before you said you wouldn't bother. I have the stuff, might as well make it go! I managed to unscrew and re-aim one of my returns, and it is disturbing the surface a bunch now. No actual bubbles, but I remember from my time with aquariums that gas exchange is all about the surface, and bubbles don't help. The contact time is just too short.

My three boxes of borax should get me to 30-32ppm borates, which should be fine. Plus, finding the stuff in a store was a nightmare. Three Wal-Marts, a Sears, and an Ace Hardware all in theory carry it, but no one had it (the Ace tried to sell me 20 Mule borax hand soap!). Found it at a second Ace, in the next town. Bought all they had.

Here's hoping! But for now, I have a functional, clean, fun pool, with nothing but bleach and a bit of CYA in it! Thanks TFP!

 

[chiefwej]

You may want to get the TA down before adding borates. You can still lower it after, but as I found the hard way, it is much harder and takes a lot longer.

 

[brainchasm]

You may want to get the TA down before adding borates. You can still lower it after, but as I found the hard way, it is much harder and takes a lot longer.

Understood, that's exactly what I'm doing right now. TA down first, then borates.

I only added the acid 20-30min ago, and only enough to get to a 7.0pH

 

[duraleigh]

I want that TA down, since I managed to buy 3 boxes of borax yesterday before you said you wouldn't bother. I have the stuff, might as well make it go!

don't get obsessed with the TA and overlook the chlorine which is about 30 times (at least) more important and will probably be too low tomorrow AM. Secondly, your CYA is too low and that, too, is more important than TA.

Keep your eye on the prize which is a sanitary pool with adequate chlorine.

 

[brainchasm]

I want that TA down, since I managed to buy 3 boxes of borax yesterday before you said you wouldn't bother. I have the stuff, might as well make it go!

don't get obsessed with the TA and overlook the chlorine which is about 30 times (at least) more important and will probably be too low tomorrow AM. Secondly, your CYA is too low and that, too, is more important than TA.

Keep your eye on the prize which is a sanitary pool with adequate chlorine.

No worries Dave. I'm planning on adding chlorine this evening still. Hopefully it won't mess with my TA work.

The CYA I'm gonna keep an eye on, and maybe add one more cup. 3 cups was supposed to get me to 30ppm, and if it missed, it's the only number so far that has (from the pool calc). If I add one more cup, no problem...I'll likely be between 30 and 40ppm.

The beauty is, I just started a two week staycation, so I'll be able to keep messing about with the pool, and hopefully even swimming in it.

 

[brainchasm]

Sundown check!
FC -1 (threw in 37oz of bleach; expected this)
CYA - still looks like less than 30, buuuut...I left my CYA reagent out on a chair, and it got sun the other day. I am wondering if became neutered. Since it's a little bottle and almost gone, I'm gonna go get a fresh one from Ye Olde Poole Store tomorrow.
pH - 7.5 - when it hits 7.8, I'll nuke it down with acid again and see if that drops my TA as expected.
TA - 120ppm - work in progress
TH - 350ppm, 2/3 rule, it's in a safe range so I just don't care about this one really
Salt - none added, not going to. My sandstone rim will probably get eaten by it, and it's already fairly friable.
Borates - none added...yet....soooon....

Water looks good, still a bit cool for me, and she needs a vacuum (will do tomorrow if I can kick this head cold).

 

[brainchasm]

Welp, two rounds of adding MA at 7.8 pH down to 7.0 pH has only gotten me from 150ppm TA to 100ppm TA. I havent checked it yet today though, so it may be down a bit more.

A week waiting for the pool to get back up to 7.8 pH and then one more round of MA and I should be ready to add borates.