Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: Done with Pool School - Now come my questions!

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    49

    Done with Pool School - Now come my questions!

    Hello everybody. I am new to TFP and relatively new to pool ownership. I have found this site to be very helpful and have recently gone through the shock process to eliminate algae from my pool. I am now working on getting everything in balance and ready for the swim season. I have an 18,000 gallon in ground SWCG pool with spillover spa and a separate waterfall. The water currently looks great. Here are my current readings as of this morning:

    FC 4
    TC 4
    CC 0
    PH 8.1
    TA 160
    CH 380
    CYA 30
    Salt 2800

    I did the tests myself with the Taylor K-1005 for PH, TA, CH and CYA. I used the Taylor K-1515 FAS-DPD for the chlorine tests and the Taylor K-1766 for the salt.

    Based on output from Pool Calculator I added 250 ounces of 14.5 acid this morning after the reading to lower TA and PH. It looks like I also need to bring my CYA up to at least 60 because I have a SWCG and I also want to get my salt up to about 3100. So now my questions:

    - Does it matter in which order I raise CYA and salt? Can I do both at the same time?
    - How long should I wait to do my next TA test and do I keep lowering with more acid each time the PH has returned to normal range?
    - Does my spa spillover contribute to PH rise as I run it each time my filter is on (8 hours a day)?
    - Anything else based on my test results?

    Thank you.
    ____________________________________________________________ ___________________
    21,000 gallon in ground rectangular plaster pool, Sta-Rite High Rate Sand Filter Model 82524-3, AO Smith SK1152 1.5HP motor w/ Sta-Rite bronze pool pump, Hayward Navigator

  2. Back To Top    #2
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,879

    Re: Done with Pool School - Now come my questions!

    Welcome to TFP!

    It seems you are off to a great start

    You can do CYA and salt at the same time.

    I would test the PH occasionally and test TA the next time PH is up to 7.5, then if TA isn't down to where you want lower the PH to between 7.0 and 7.2 again, repeating as needed until TA is down where you want it.

    Yes, the SWG, spa spillover, and waterfall all contribute to aeration, which raises the PH.

    I would aim for a CYA level around 80. However it is best to go there in a couple of steps so you are sure not to raise CYA too high.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  3. Back To Top    #3

    In the Industry


    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    728

    Re: Done with Pool School - Now come my questions!

    Hello and welcome to TFP!

    By the sound of things, you have a pretty good handle on what needs done!

    The order of CYA and salt will not matter. You can do both at the same time if you want.
    I am not sure of the minimum time you should wait to measure TA, but I think tomorrow would be a safe bet.
    Yes, your spillover will contribute to pH rise.

    EDIT: Well, Jason beat me to the punch..oh well.
    Welcome and keep up the good work!

  4. Back To Top    #4

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    49

    Re: Done with Pool School - Now come my questions!

    Thanks Jason and Blake. I appreciate the confirmation that I am on track.

    I now understand the TA approach. Keep cycling with acid every time my PH gets high enough (7.5+) and until the TA is at the level I want.

    So, if the spa spillover contributes to PH rise because of the aeration, what is the best way to chlorinate my spa without using the spillover? Do I run on pool setting with 100% pool return for 8 hours with the chlorinator set at one level and then the spa setting with 100% spa return for X hours with cholorinator set at X level? Is that how most people do it with this combination? Right now I run the filter on pool setting for 8 hours with the return set to 50% pool and 50% spa and the spa spills over into the pool because of the way I have the valves set. Does my question make sense?
    ____________________________________________________________ ___________________
    21,000 gallon in ground rectangular plaster pool, Sta-Rite High Rate Sand Filter Model 82524-3, AO Smith SK1152 1.5HP motor w/ Sta-Rite bronze pool pump, Hayward Navigator

  5. Back To Top    #5
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,879

    Re: Done with Pool School - Now come my questions!

    You need to run the spillover at least a bit each day. There is no complete work around for that. Depending on your setup it might be practical to lower the amount of water flowing to the spa, or only send water to the spa for half an hour or an hour each day.

    In most cases you can lower TA enough that PH increases stop being a problem. The rate at which PH goes up depends on many things, but the two most important are high TA and the amount of aeration. By lowering TA and reducing the amount of aeration you should be able to get it completely under control. That works for the great majority of pools, but every now and again there will be a pool where the PH still goes up.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  6. Back To Top    #6
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    37,389

    Re: Done with Pool School - Now come my questions!

    Welcome

    I just wanted to say thanks for doing your homework and reading through Pool School before posting your straight forward questions.

    You seem to have a good understanding and should be able to enjoy crystal clear pool all summer.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  7. Back To Top    #7

    TFP Guide

    chiefwej's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Tucson
    Posts
    2,853

    Re: Done with Pool School - Now come my questions!

    You seem to understand using acid and airation to lower TA and since you need to lower your TA anyway, the spa spill over will help with aeration. You may find (like I have) that striking a balance between how much water returns to the pool and how much goes to the spa will help maintain that lower TA that you need. I've found that I always need a little spill over, just not all the water going that way. Yes, it does raise the pH a bit, but unlike the SWG, it does so with out increasing the TA. Then when you add MA you lower both pH and TA.
    chiefwej
    Tucson, AZ
    16x36 rectangular (19k) Pebble Tec play pool/spa, Pentair Intelliflo VS 011018, Super II 2hp (spa), Aqua Rite T-15 SWG, Pro Grid 60 DE, Hayward H400 & Heliocol Solar heating, A&A infloor system, fill water w/high CH and TA, 50 ppm borates,TF-100 test kit

  8. Back To Top    #8

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    49

    Re: Done with Pool School - Now come my questions!

    Jason (jblizzle) and chiefwej it looks like all three of us are from Tucson. It's already swim time here. My family had its first swim day two days ago on Sunday. This is earlier than last year if I remember correctly.

    chiefwej - Based on your signature it looks like you and I have very similar systems except you are on a DE filter and I am sand. Are you adjusting the spill over manually, or is it on automated control? If you adjust it manually, do you leave it in the same position all the time and have the spill over going whenever the pool filter is on? What is your second pump for...some type of water feature?
    ____________________________________________________________ ___________________
    21,000 gallon in ground rectangular plaster pool, Sta-Rite High Rate Sand Filter Model 82524-3, AO Smith SK1152 1.5HP motor w/ Sta-Rite bronze pool pump, Hayward Navigator

  9. Back To Top    #9
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    37,389

    Re: Done with Pool School - Now come my questions!

    Quote Originally Posted by mcdickey
    Jason (jblizzle) and chiefwej it looks like all three of us are from Tucson. It's already swim time here. My family had its first swim day two days ago on Sunday. This is earlier than last year if I remember correctly.
    There are a surprising number of us Tucson folk here ... wonder if everyone got sick of Leslies? I let the girls get in a few weeks ago ... water was still low 70s ... they did not last long. We went again on Sunday and the water was closer to 80 ... still a little too cold.

    Need to get my solar heater back up and get the water temp up ... although if I wait much longer, I will not need it until the fall.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  10. Back To Top    #10

    TFP Guide

    chiefwej's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Tucson
    Posts
    2,853

    Re: Done with Pool School - Now come my questions!

    I had to turn the solar off yesterday when the pool temp topped 90. We have been using the pool for almost two weeks now.

    Re. my spa return, I actually have a fountain in the spa that I use to provide a bit of aeration. My pool has separate valves for almost everything, so I just put a little bit of water through the fountain all the time the filter pump is on. My second pump runs the gas heater and spa, but can be diverted to the pool if I want to heat it with the gas unit.

    The problems here in Tucson seem to be keeping the TA down, to combat constant rising pH and my CH seems to always be in the 500+ range. This site has taught me so much and adding borates has made managing things a lot easier.
    chiefwej
    Tucson, AZ
    16x36 rectangular (19k) Pebble Tec play pool/spa, Pentair Intelliflo VS 011018, Super II 2hp (spa), Aqua Rite T-15 SWG, Pro Grid 60 DE, Hayward H400 & Heliocol Solar heating, A&A infloor system, fill water w/high CH and TA, 50 ppm borates,TF-100 test kit

  11. Back To Top    #11

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    49

    Re: Done with Pool School - Now come my questions!

    Thanks guys.
    ____________________________________________________________ ___________________
    21,000 gallon in ground rectangular plaster pool, Sta-Rite High Rate Sand Filter Model 82524-3, AO Smith SK1152 1.5HP motor w/ Sta-Rite bronze pool pump, Hayward Navigator

  12. Back To Top    #12

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    49

    Re: Done with Pool School - Now come my questions!

    I added 6 pounds of CYA over the last 48 hours. I'll test the levels again in one week and see if it gets me where I need to be. I am shooting for 70 PPM after the additional 6 pounds and then will slowly bring it up to 80 after that.
    ____________________________________________________________ ___________________
    21,000 gallon in ground rectangular plaster pool, Sta-Rite High Rate Sand Filter Model 82524-3, AO Smith SK1152 1.5HP motor w/ Sta-Rite bronze pool pump, Hayward Navigator

  13. Back To Top    #13

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    49

    Re: Done with Pool School - Now come my questions!

    Ok, so I added CYA last Saturday (6 pounds) and waited a full week to test. I also added 40 pounds of salt. Here are my results from a few minutes ago:

    FC 5
    TC 5
    CC 0
    PH 7.9
    TA 120
    CH 390
    Salt 3100
    CYA 90-100

    Here are my thoughts...It looks like I was able to bring TA down from 160 to 120 last time with the acid. It also looks like my PH is high enough now to bring it back down to 7.2 again to attempt to get TA even lower. Correct?

    It looks like salt ended up exactly where I wanted it to.

    I over shot CYA. I was hoping to be around 80 and ended up in the 90-100 range. Is this an issue and do I need to drain some water out and refill to get it down to the 80 level? Or can I leave it how it is without really bumping up the FC?

    Thanks in advance for your input.
    ____________________________________________________________ ___________________
    21,000 gallon in ground rectangular plaster pool, Sta-Rite High Rate Sand Filter Model 82524-3, AO Smith SK1152 1.5HP motor w/ Sta-Rite bronze pool pump, Hayward Navigator

  14. Back To Top    #14
    JasonLion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Posts
    37,879

    Re: Done with Pool School - Now come my questions!

    Adding acid now to work on lowering TA a bit more would be great.

    You should be able to get by with CYA there, just keep FC at 5 or higher and don't add any more CYA for a while.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
    Creator of PoolMath and Pool Calculator. Other handy links: Support this site, TF Test Kits, Pool School

  15. Back To Top    #15

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Marana, AZ
    Posts
    347

    Re: Done with Pool School - Now come my questions!

    Oooh, oooh, oooh! I have to join the party here! Tucson area myself.
    Swimming a lot now. I have a canopy over my pool made from solar screen fabric so I don't fry. I also have a solar cover so the early morning and late afternoon sun warms the water, as well as not much cooling of it at night, so my water temp. is lower 80's. Happy swims!
    Above ground soft side Omega pool
    20 feet diameter, 4 feet deep
    Hayward sand filter
    Hayward 1 HP Matrix pump
    Hayward Aquabug Automatic Pool Cleaner

  16. Back To Top    #16

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    49

    Re: Done with Pool School - Now come my questions!

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion
    Adding acid now to work on lowering TA a bit more would be great.

    You should be able to get by with CYA there, just keep FC at 5 or higher and don't add any more CYA for a while.
    If I don't want to just "get by" how much water should I exchange to get CYA to 80? My pool is approximately 18,000 gallons and I believe my CYA is about 100? Is there a formula for this?
    ____________________________________________________________ ___________________
    21,000 gallon in ground rectangular plaster pool, Sta-Rite High Rate Sand Filter Model 82524-3, AO Smith SK1152 1.5HP motor w/ Sta-Rite bronze pool pump, Hayward Navigator

  17. Back To Top    #17

    In the Industry

    duraleigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Sebring, Florida
    Posts
    30,084

    Re: Done with Pool School - Now come my questions!

    Is there a formula for this?
    It is a direct reduction. If you remove half of your pool water, your CYA, when the pool is refilled will drop by half.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

  18. Back To Top    #18

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    49

    Re: Done with Pool School - Now come my questions!

    That makes sense. So I need to take out about 20%...3,600 gallons. That's a lot of water. Oh well, live and learn.
    ____________________________________________________________ ___________________
    21,000 gallon in ground rectangular plaster pool, Sta-Rite High Rate Sand Filter Model 82524-3, AO Smith SK1152 1.5HP motor w/ Sta-Rite bronze pool pump, Hayward Navigator

  19. Back To Top    #19

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    49

    Re: Done with Pool School - Now come my questions!

    After researching more on the CYA test and how to correctly read results, I now believe my CYA reading is somewhere between 80 and 90 with my Taylor K-1005 test kit. I did the test again this past weekend with my back to the sun and the vial around waist level and added until the black dot completely disappeared and did not reappear. After repeating the test about 5 times I consistently had results in the 80-90 range (versus the 90-100 I was reading before). I had my wife do the test as well and she came up with 80. Given the +/- range of 10 with the test I think I am in good range for my SWCG pool. I am going to reduce FC back to about 3 PPM (was at 5 PPM) and see what happens.
    ____________________________________________________________ ___________________
    21,000 gallon in ground rectangular plaster pool, Sta-Rite High Rate Sand Filter Model 82524-3, AO Smith SK1152 1.5HP motor w/ Sta-Rite bronze pool pump, Hayward Navigator

  20. Back To Top    #20

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    49

    Re: Done with Pool School - Now come my questions!

    Updated test results from last night:

    FC 4
    TC 4
    CC 0
    PH 7.2 (I just added acid yesterday morning to bring down TA)
    TA 90
    CH 380
    CYA 80-90
    Salt 3100

    I am almost where I need to be and the water looks great.
    ____________________________________________________________ ___________________
    21,000 gallon in ground rectangular plaster pool, Sta-Rite High Rate Sand Filter Model 82524-3, AO Smith SK1152 1.5HP motor w/ Sta-Rite bronze pool pump, Hayward Navigator

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •