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Thread: Need help with pump replacement

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    Need help with pump replacement

    I am a research freak and would REALLY like to avoid my typical pattern of days of reading and analyzing since I was coming home from work this morning and could hear my pump from about 250' away. Hopefully you will bear with me, as I have several questions after reading all the posts I could on new pumps...

    -I don't know whats making noise, but is it ever a smart idea (or even possible) to just replace the motor or just the pump?
    -what advantages does a 2 speed pump offer?
    -Do I need to downsize the existing setup? (Based on some factors I will post below)

    Here are some factors that may affect decision based on questions I've seen asked of other posters:
    -28K in ground with one skimmer, raised spa, 4 water feature jets, 4 return jets
    -pump/filter are about 2ft above the pool
    -backwash line is buried PVC about 60 ft long (mostly flat, maybe slightly downhill at end)
    -current pump is 240V Hayward Super II 2.0HP on 20a breaker (easily changed)
    -floor drain is non-functional
    -60 cu ft hayward DE filter
    -when leaves fall and get in skimmer basket, the pump sucks the basket down the body of the skimmer and crushes the basket. (pump too strong or is this normal if you let the basket get full?)

    I'll try to post a picture of the pool in case it matters...

    http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i159/ ... 030249.jpg
    http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i159/ ... G_3355.jpg
    http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i159/ ... G_3360.jpg
    http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i159/ ... G_3361.jpg

    in the pic of the whole pool, the returns on on the wall closest to the camera, the one skimmer is just left of the diving board, and the pump is up the steps on the left just past the house.

    Thanks so much for any advice!
    28K IG, stonescapes pebble, raised spa, hayward heater, Pentair Intelliflo, Pentair 60ft DE filter, built around 1980, remodeled 2007.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Need help with pump replacement

    Just a few other questions.
    What size are the suction and return pipes?
    Does the floor drain leak and now sealed?

    Given you have spa and water jets you may need the 2HP (hope someone smarter than me helps there).
    Although it sounds too powerful to only pull through the 1 skimmer.

    You can certainly replace just the motor and use the same wet-end. If you change motor size, you may also need to change the impeller though. I am pretty sure there are 2-speed motors that could directly replace your current motor.

    The high speed on a 2-speed pump is generally the same as the equivalent single speed. On low speed you get ROUGHLY half the flow rate using 1/4 the electricity. The electric cost is the general driver. However in your situation, you may benefit using the low speed most of the time (with your single skimmer line) and then using the high speed when in spa mode or running the water jets.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Need help with pump replacement

    The 2-speed version of the B130 is the B979. Replacing the motor is the easiest and most cost effective thing you can do. I believe your pump is way oversized for your equipment. I think you could get by with a full rated 1 or 1½ hp pump. List the things Jason asked for as well as any other info about your pool and equip and we can help figure it out.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
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    Re: Need help with pump replacement

    suction and return lines are 2.5" The main drain was filled with concrete when we bought the house so I'm assuming it leaked and was abandoned.
    I looked at an intelliflow pump today that supposedly would cut run costs from $300/mo at .15/kwh and 10-12 hours per day to $150?? That sounds way optimistic. I only pay 7.5 per kwh but my whole electric bill barely hits $300 with two a/c's and running the pool 10 hours!
    I'm thinking I don't want to reduce the HP simply due to the fact that our returns are so far from the only skimmer. I guess replacing the motor would be the smart thing, but it sure would be nice to have a quieter motor, and not have to deal with that super II lid anymore!!
    The other thing I should have mentioned is that we have a poorly applied stonescapes pebble finish that is VERY rough and hard to keep clean. In combination with no drain its tough to keep this thing clean so the more water movement the better.
    28K IG, stonescapes pebble, raised spa, hayward heater, Pentair Intelliflo, Pentair 60ft DE filter, built around 1980, remodeled 2007.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Need help with pump replacement

    Don't believe the promotional material regarding "cost savings". Your rate is too low for a variable pump to likely be worth it.

    You could still probably benefit from a 2-speed. Note that the lower HP motors generally not reduce the flow rate by too much.
    Also realize you need to compare the service factors of the different pumps. Yours is 2HP with SF of 1.2 ... so your SFHP = 2.4HP
    Full rated pumps have a higher SF. So a full rated 1.5HP pump with a SF of 1.5 would be a SFHP of 2.25 (not much smaller than what you have)

    Cheapest option is replacement of the motor (single or 2-speed).
    If you lower the HP of the motor, then I think you need to lower the rating of the impeller as well.
    If you want a new pump all together, look at the Pentair Whisperflo 2-speeds, these are very efficient and you could likely get away with the 1 HP or 1.5 HP full rater pump.

    What type of cleaner are you using that is struggling with your pool?
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
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    Re: Need help with pump replacement

    With a spa and water feature, I would not downsize the pump or the jets will get weaker.

    The cheapest solution would be replace the current motor with a 2 speed but with a 28k pool and $0.15/kwh, you are getting in the range where a VS might make sense especially since you need the high flow rates for the spa.

    Assuming 1 turnover per day and 1 hour on high speed with the rest of the turnover on low speed:

    Intelliflo (2400/1000 RPM): 93 kwh/month
    Super II (3450/1725 RPM): 191 kwh/month

    So a savings of about 100 kwh/month or $15 for the Intelliflo over the two speed. A new motor will be about $300 and the VS is around $900, so to make up the $600 delta, you would need about 40 months of run time and after that the Intelliflo will be saving more money. So financially it might make more sense to go with the Intelliflo. Plus the VS gives you a lot more flexibility in setting flow rates for your various water features and spa.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Need help with pump replacement

    And the Man has spoken! If you do nothing else, listen to Mark! He is the hydraulic guru.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Need help with pump replacement

    Funny ... I was about to make a similar remark ... and so it was written ...
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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    Re: Need help with pump replacement

    Wow. Again I am amazed at the quality and speed of the replies on this board. Just to be clear, the .15/kwh was the pool stores example. I'm at 7.4 for the next year at least.
    I guess I'm still a little confused re the 2 speed motors. I'll read up tonight, but when would I run it low speed vs high?
    28K IG, stonescapes pebble, raised spa, hayward heater, Pentair Intelliflo, Pentair 60ft DE filter, built around 1980, remodeled 2007.

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    Re: Need help with pump replacement

    Anytime that all you want is to flow water - not doing cleaning and not using the jets/spa. Most people would run the pump on high speed for an hour or 2 so the skimmer can be most efficient, and then switch to low for 8-16 hours for basic water circulation.
    16x32 IG 19,000 gallons, Pentair 1.5 hp Energy Efficient Superflo pump (348024),vinyl liner, Chlorine dispenser, Hayward S-244T sand filter

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    Re: Need help with pump replacement

    sorry, missed a question in a previous post. The only cleaner I've got is a smart pool robotic. I probably just need to vacuum more often as there is a dedicated vacuum port, but its smaller than the other piping, and very difficult to get proper suction with. If I open the valve all the way it sucks air and loses prime. Or it barely picks up anything-- very finicky...
    28K IG, stonescapes pebble, raised spa, hayward heater, Pentair Intelliflo, Pentair 60ft DE filter, built around 1980, remodeled 2007.

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Need help with pump replacement

    If you're getting air into the system when vacuuming, you have a suction side leak. Check the vac hoses, pump strainer basket lid o-ring, pump drain plugs, any valves in the system and see if there is anywhere it may be leaking air into the system. Remember, you can have an air leak and not leak out any water.

    If your electric rate is only 7.4¢ per kwh, that's very low. I'd say a the 2-speed motor would be a good deal but hopefully Mark will chime back in and edit his estimate.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
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    Re: Need help with pump replacement

    Half the electrical rate, it takes twice as long to exceed the cost savings of a two speed motor so instead of 40 months, it would be 80 months. This is one of those grey areas. It still makes sense for an Intelliflo but the savings are not going to be huge over the two speed. After 80 months, the Intelliflo would be saving $7.50/month more than the two speed. Not a lot but it can add up depending on how long the pump lasts.

    Again, beyond any costs savings the Intelliflo has a lot of flexibility for those systems with a lot of features like yours. Have you ever wanted to make the spa jets stronger or weaker? The water features higher or lower? The Intelliflo will allow you to do this.

    Either way you will be saving money.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Need help with pump replacement

    Very helpful, than you very much. The water feature jets will already go over the pool, but the spa jets are pretty weak now that you mention it.
    Plus this super II has been run dry SOOOO many times that I wonder if it's shot anyway- even if I were to replace whatever internals are replaceable.
    28K IG, stonescapes pebble, raised spa, hayward heater, Pentair Intelliflo, Pentair 60ft DE filter, built around 1980, remodeled 2007.

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    Re: Need help with pump replacement

    Took the motor off today and found a few things. First, several passages in the impeller were PACKED with junk. With the motor off, I ran it and it sounded fine. No noise or anything. No excessive play in the shaft either. I realize it could still be bad under a load, but I think the noise is something else. The big piece that covers the impeller (diffuser?) had a hole rubbed in it so somethings not right. I'll put a link below to the part I'm talking about. I'm gonna try replacing the loose parts tomorrow and see what happens before spending a ton of money.

    http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i159/ ... G_3369.jpg
    28K IG, stonescapes pebble, raised spa, hayward heater, Pentair Intelliflo, Pentair 60ft DE filter, built around 1980, remodeled 2007.

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    Re: Need help with pump replacement

    Also check the impeller ring, it is probably damaged as well. With the debris removed, does the impeller spin without any wobble?
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Need help with pump replacement

    It seems to spin perfectly. I figured I'd replace the ring just in case. I replaced the seal a year or so ago but since it's apart it probably wouldn't hurt to replace it again as well??
    28K IG, stonescapes pebble, raised spa, hayward heater, Pentair Intelliflo, Pentair 60ft DE filter, built around 1980, remodeled 2007.

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    Re: Need help with pump replacement

    Good news. Replaced diffuser, pump seal, and the impeller, as the "nose" of it had been worn kinda thin and was a little out I round. Runs perfect now, quiet, and no more bubbles in the pump!
    Thanks for all the suggestions, I will definitely be smarter when I do have to replace it.
    28K IG, stonescapes pebble, raised spa, hayward heater, Pentair Intelliflo, Pentair 60ft DE filter, built around 1980, remodeled 2007.

  19. Back To Top    #19
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Need help with pump replacement

    Good work on fixing the impeller

    Now that you know that is good, if you still want to save on electricity, you could swap out the motor for the 2HP 2-speed version.
    OR
    Later get the VS pump if you decided to go that route.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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