Newbie to the site, cloudy pool

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TomTinNC

TomTinNC

0
Apr 13, 2012
67
Wilmington, NC
Greetings all,

I have been reading this site for a couple of weeks, got the big test kit. Before I begin in, I have owned this pool for 3 years, it is an above ground round 20 ft diameter 4 foot deep pool. I have adapted a real pump and large filter box into the garbage that came with the pool, but am still using the skimmer box and smaller filter box, and pumping that through the new pump, although, I also created a new intake that goes directly to the new pump. There is only one outlet into the pool. I was my filters regularly, daily for the last few weeks, and I vacuum once a week. I had been using :rolleyes the hockey pucks for chlorination.

This year, when I tried to open the pool it was in bad shape, algae, leaves, looked like something swamp people would have been proud to hunt gators in. I got the leaves out, killed the algae, vacuumed a gazillion times to waste, filters running 24/7 for a couple of weeks. Water is clean but cloudy. When I pressure wash my filters the water coming off the filters looks like milk...white milk.

I bought a cheap test kit from Home Depot.....prior to reading this website. That kit, although cheap told me that my TA was high. I did the see saw action all last month with baking soda and acid prior to reading this site and finding how fruitless of an endeavor that was...and expensive. I have since assumed the muriatic acid/aeration technique and have managed to get my TA down to around 145. Old test says 150, my new kit says 140. Originally I was in the 250 range, so I'm feeling good about the 140. The unknown was my CYA, which I didn't get that kit until today...it arrived in the mail. Here are my numbers from today, using my new kit and the pool calculator, and I have some questions.

TC=3 (probably due to high CYA)
pH=7.6
FC=1.5
CC=1.5
TA=145
CH=???? The test vial stayed purplish blue. Never turned red at all. The purple drops were difficult to get to dissolve, they stayed intact until I manipulated them to dissolve in the vial. I don't know what this means.
CYA=70

I'm sure I'm cloudy because of a combination of the elevated TA, and high CYA inhibiting FC....there might be some biological stuff going on that chlorine isn't waxing. I'm successfully reducing the TA with Acid/Aeration method. I'm about to dump 43% of my water and re-fill to reduce CYA down to acceptable levels, and I'm through with the pucks...switching to bleach.

Am I on the right track? You think the water will clear once I get the TA, CYA, and FC on the ball?

Never had any problems with the pool until late last summer, when I had a huge algae bloom, and I couldn't get FC levels in the pool at all, kept adding more pucks to the skimmer. Which was making things worse by adding to the CYA issue....when I closed the pool....if you can call it closing, it was in bad shape. When I tried to open it.....not much better. I think I am following all your directions correctly, I just want to make sure here. Also, the CH test, any ideas on that, why that is happening?

Thanks a gazillion already,

Tom T in North Carolina
 
:wave: Welcome :wave:

Sounds like you have a good start with the recommended kit, but there are a few things you hypothesized that are not quite right.

First, there have been a lot of people lately struggling with the CH test lately ... they really should not have to dissolve as it sounds like you describe. You should just have to be swirling the water while you do the test. Did you ever have CH tested by another method (pool store or your other kit?)

Actually your CYA at 70 is a manageable number. Not knowing your CH, the option to drain 30% or so of your water is up to you. It does not sound like you have grasped the CYA/FC relationship quite yet. Try reading ABC's of Pool Water Chemistry.

Since you water is cloudy and you have CC > 0.5 you need to shock your pool ... read this and the links inside: Turning Your Green Swamp Back into a Sparkling Oasis

The CYA is not inhibiting your FC it is protecting part of it from the sun. Normally, with a CYA of 70 you need to always maintain a FC between 5 and 10ppm. But since you have to shock, you need to keep it above 20ppm based on poolcalculator.com

Your TA is not terribly high and you should not focus on it until your pool is clear and free of CC. Since your pH seems reasonable right now just focus on holding your FC above 20 ppm by testing and adjusting often.

If you do decide to change out part of your water, you will need to retest your CYA level and report back, although changing water is not absolutely required in your case.
 
Get the FC up to something reasonable right away or you are going to have a full scale algae bloom (if you don't already have one). With CYA at 70, the recommended FC level is between 5 and 8, and never below 5. Since you have CC above 0.5, you should bring FC all the way up to shock level (24 to 28). Raising the FC level and keeping it high will almost certainly clear up the water quite quickly.

The reagent that colors the solution doesn't always "dissolve" very easily. Just mix more throughly. Don't expect the colors to always come out exactly as described. Anything in the general family of colors around the one mentioned in the instructions counts as the same thing.
 
Well, I had already begun dumping water via a vacuum hose to waste...and vacuuming before y'all responded. I'll begin re-filling tonight. I will get the FC's up.

I do understand that CYA protects the chlorine from the sun, but at too high of levels, it will inhibit the ability of chlorine to do what it needs to do. That is what I thought I understood from ABC's of pool chemistry. It'll probably be a bit before I post again, I have a lot of work, repair, and chemistry to work on. WHen the pool fills, I'll give y'all updated chemistry. Thanks for your help.

Tom
 
TomTinNC said:
I do understand that CYA protects the chlorine from the sun, but at too high of levels, it will inhibit the ability of chlorine to do what it needs to do. That is what I thought I understood from ABC's of pool chemistry.
Click to expand...

Not if your keep the FC levels up in the recommended range: FC @ 4 with CYA @ 30 will sanitize the same as FC @ 8 with CYA @ 70.

Report back when you have a full pool and new test results.
 
I do understand that CYA protects the chlorine from the sun, but at too high of levels, it will inhibit the ability of chlorine to do what it needs to do. That is what I thought I understood from ABC's of pool chemistry.
Click to expand...
Just to clarify, this statement is correct.
 
yeah, forgot to mention that I still had pucks in a floater, and no matter how many pucks I added, couldn't get the FC to rise at all. I dropped in bleach tonight with the pool filling, should be enough by pool calculator to have raised the FC to shock. Before that I lowered the pH a bit with Muriatic Acid. From reading the repairing your swamp, the way I understand it...my pH is gonna rise anyway, so I figured I could take advantage of this whole process to further lower the TA..(lots of aeration occurring right now with the water addition, and outlet throwing water about 8 inches above the water level).....since that has been a very time consuming process. I gotta play bagpipes all day tomorrow, but when I get home I'll get a check on the chemistry. Judging from the fumes coming from the pool right now, the FC has got to be WAY up there. Again, thanks for all the help and this site.....wish I'd have known a lot of this information last summer when I was battling this pool in August and September. Hopefully I'll get the thing right here for the upcoming summer.
 
Have the pH at 7.2....FC at 24, it dropped 4ppm in 2 hours. Got it back up to 24, and see what happens overnight. CYA is 50 or so since the drain and refill. That CH test with the TF100 is still throwing me for a loop.

You fill that vial to 25ml, add 2 different reagents, one clear, one purpleish. When I add the purple stuff, the kit says the water will turn red in the presence of Calcium. It never turns red, it is a light shade...watered down shade of the purple reagent. When I add the drops after the purple reagent that says the stuff will turn blue after counting drops.....the test water stays that same purplish watered down color after adding 40 drops. My CH can't be higher than 400 can it? Maybe I'm color blind or something, but I can't figure that one out.

Massive shock and awe in progress. I'll maintain the shock level until my CC falls to under .5 right? Then let the FC drop naturally to proper chlorination levels and maintain, then balance. Hopefully after that and some filter cleaning, I should have crystal clear water I hope. Water already looks better tonight under the light. I'm also hoping that my TA will have fallen a bit after this shock and awe treatment. I think I understand all this a bit better now. The grocery store lady about died when I brought all those bleach bottles to the counter tonight ;)

Thanks again,

Tom
 
Don't worry about the TA right now. Focus on the FC. Also remember the pH test is not valid for FC above 10. So not sure the aeration plan is a good idea if you are maintaining shock level for a while...could result in the pH getting too high.

Oh and it is certainly possible to have CH well over 400. If you use the alternate test method each drop will be 25 instead of 10 to save some of your reagents.

Posted with Tapatalk 2
 

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I put the pH at 7.2 prior to shocking. Read to lower the pH prior to the anti-swamp shock because of the anticipated pH rise. So I pulled the pH down with Acid....if it drops the TA a bit more then I just took advantage of the pH rise while the other fiasco was under way. I understand the pH test isn't as reliable with high FC, which is why I adjusted pH prior to jacking the FC. I've checked it again here before I go to bed, and had to correct another 4ppm by adding bleach. CC is still 1.5 and my FC's are falling pretty fast. I'm gonna be gone most of the day tomorrow, so prior to leaving home, I was going to make sure the FC was around 28 or so. I might be able to slip home for lunch and adjust it again. Hopefully the grocery store re-stocks their bleach tonight, I wiped them out of the store brand tonight. Waiting on CC's to fall off, and letting the filter do its thing now.

Am I going to have to hold this pool in shock for a long time to get CC down from 1.5? I have been brushing as well. I guess now, its just a waiting....and keeping FC around 24 game. I was just trying to figure out if this was going to be days or weeks of shock and awe.

Thanx for the guidance.

Tom
 
Sounds like you gave a good plan and understanding. Hard to guess how long it takes. Sometimes days but we have seen up to 3 weeks. Yours was not as much of a swamp and assuming something strange is not hiding in there, you could be on the shorter side.

You got the pH right. I was just commenting that intentional aeration might raise the pH too quickly while you are shocking.

Posted with Tapatalk 2
 
FC dropped to 11 today while I was gone so long, I have it back up to 28. CC is 3 now instead of the 1.5 it was before shock. Does the increase in chlorine levels increase CC when there is something amuck the chlorine is dealing with? Water is much clearer, getting way better. Changed out the filters, and they are getting some muck out that wasn't coming out prior to shock. Still in full on shock mode, need bleach tomorrow.
 
Keeping my FC up at 24 has been much easier today than it was Friday and Saturday. I take it that is good news. CC is falling a bit, down to 2.5 from 3... Water is continuing to clear. The ladder has 3 steps, I can see all 3 steps right now. Still some turbidity though, but that seems to be clearing at a regular rate every day too. I'm hoping to wake up tomorrow to see the bottom of the pool for the first time since last August. I really appreciate all of the help that is available on this site through the Pool School, administrators, and members. The confusion of the "pool stores" and advice from other novice pool owners had been making my problems worse, not better.

I have one other question while I'm waiting on my Trouble Free Pool. If my CYAs fall below 30, can I use hockey pucks to raise the CYA? I still have about a hundred bucks worth of the trichlor pucks. I'm through using them to chlorinate regularly, but can I use them to CYA elevate? I think the turbidity of my water was adverseley impacting my first CYA analyses. It now looks to be around 40-50 or so since the water has cleared. Which seems like a pretty normal level, since this pool will be in direct sunlight all summer.
 
I have one other question while I'm waiting on my Trouble Free Pool. If my CYAs fall below 30, can I use hockey pucks to raise the CYA?
Click to expand...
Well, there is no reason they would fall if your CYA is 50 now.

However, you can always use pucks as long as you use them with the knowledge you now have that they will increase CYA by 6 parts per million for every 10 parts of chlorine they add. In other words, be careful. It can add up quickly.

The turbidity of your water almost surely had no effect on your CYA test (even though that makes sense at first blush, experimentation has indicated it doesn't have any effect) so it was probably just getting used to the test.
 
Thanks Dave. Thanks for the test kit too, very nice. Looks like I'll be ordering replacement chlorine drop test reagents soon, I've been using a lot of it maintaining these shock levels and checking CCs. Yeah, I meant in the future if I saw a fall in CYA. I know my levels are good now, and I'm using bleach to chlorinate. I figure I'll store those trichlor tabs in a cool dark place, and keep them on hand in case those levels drop. We do have a lot of people using the pool in the summer, and tons of water replacement, so I'm sure since I'm no longer using the pucks the levels will probably fall this summer. I'll take advantage of those moments to deal with the TA.

I tried the CH test again last night. I added the two, same as above. The water turned a very light shade of purple, the same exact color as the second reagent. I used the instruction primary method, and after adding 150 drops, the only thing that happened is that the purple stuff formed little tiny purple precipitant. I have never seen any red, or any shade that could resemble red. Nor have I ever seen a shift to blue. Is it possible I don't have calcium in the pool? If so, is that going to be problematic? I know this isn't a priority right now, but I've done that test so many times. I even called my son over in case I'm color blind or something, and asked him to watch the whole deal (my son is actually my nephew that we have raised since he was a small boy, so he doesn't have my genes...so if I was color blind, he might not be) He never saw red or blue either. I'll try the alternate method when the FCs come back to normal and see if it looks different.
 
Yes, I have seen the alternate directions. I have ordered the magnetic stirrer, so when I get everything in order with the pool, I can try that. I only had 3 ppm falloff of FC's overnight. I went from 24 to 21. I'll change filters again this afternoon. Still making good progress.
 
OK, here is a new question. This morning, I discovered a greenish, yellowish ring of slime around the waterline of the pool on the walls. It is slippery between your fingers. I scrubbed it all off. Is this mustard algae? I figured that I would take the pool up to mustard shock per the instructions once I pass my OCLT and kill the CCs. I only lost 3ppm FC last night, and my CC is down to 1.5 from 3 when I first started shocking. I scrubbed, vacuumed, and stirred it up today, so it is a bit cloudy right now from all that activity.
 

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