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Thread: Filter sizes

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    Filter sizes

    We are replacing our Doughhboy filter this year. We are considering the Hayward S210T or the S220T. The S210T uses 50 lbs less sand. Would one filter be better than the other? We will be using a 1 1/2 hp pump.
    Thanks for any suggestions and advice.
    16 x 32 x 54" AG buried 2', Hayward S244T Sand Filter, Hayward 15922S Power Flo Matrix pump

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    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: Filter sizes

    I think both filters are well undersized for that pump. I'd consider downsizing your pump to a 1HP or 3/4HP and going with a 24" filter.
    TFP Moderator
    20K Gallon 20X36 Vinyl Inground
    Hayward S244T Sand Filter with 1HP Whisperflo Pump. Liquidator C-201 and Solar Heat

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Filter sizes

    I agree with JohnT, the S244T filter is probably a better choice (if you want to stay with Hayward) but the pump still would be oversized. What model pump do you have?
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Filter sizes

    Thanks JohnT and Linen for your responses. Our pump is aDoughboy Power Pak II. It's only 3-4 years old so I'd hate to replace it unless I have to. Our old filter was a Doughboy Silica II holding 120lbs of sand. Our pool looked great last year using the BBB method. If we stay with this pump will it effect the filter's performance? Any other suggestions if we don't go with Hayward? I have seen Hayward mentioned often on the TFP forums but don't have any experience with them. What size filter is a 1 1/2 hp pump made for? Thanks for all the help.
    16 x 32 x 54" AG buried 2', Hayward S244T Sand Filter, Hayward 15922S Power Flo Matrix pump

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Filter sizes

    AG pump ratings can be very deceiving and tend to be much much smaller than the same HP IG pump. So my guess is that even though the Doughboy pump is rated at 1 1/2 HP, it is probably weaker/smaller than the smallest IG pump. Once you have it on the filter, check the filter pressure. If it is less than 10 PSI, it should be fine.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Filter sizes

    Quote Originally Posted by karen1017
    Our old filter was a Doughboy Silica II holding 120lbs of sand.
    That is a pretty small filter (1.4 sq. ft). A small filter needs backwashing more often.
    Quote Originally Posted by karen1017
    If we stay with this pump will it effect the filter's performance?
    Like mas said, you do not want to have excessive pressure rise across the filter.
    Quote Originally Posted by karen1017
    Any other suggestions if we don't go with Hayward? I have seen Hayward mentioned often on the TFP forums but don't have any experience with them.
    Like JohnT said, maybe get a ~ 3 sq. ft. filter, from what I have seen, all major manufacturers make good sand filters. A small filter needs backwashing more often than a larger one.
    Quote Originally Posted by karen1017
    It's only 3-4 years old so I'd hate to replace it unless I have to.
    In my opinion, it is not imperative that you replace it. You have been dealing with your current pump/filter just fine it sounds. Why are you replacing the filter?
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Filter sizes

    Thanks again everyone for the responses. The reason for replacing the filter is that the Doughboy was old and starting to leak. I'm still a little confused but beginning to understand a little of the reasoning for the smaller pump and larger filter. I thought I read that the Hayward S244T was for in ground pools. Would it be alright to use that filter on an AG pool?
    16 x 32 x 54" AG buried 2', Hayward S244T Sand Filter, Hayward 15922S Power Flo Matrix pump

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    Mod Squad JohnT's Avatar
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    Re: Filter sizes

    Quote Originally Posted by karen1017
    Thanks again everyone for the responses. The reason for replacing the filter is that the Doughboy was old and starting to leak. I'm still a little confused but beginning to understand a little of the reasoning for the smaller pump and larger filter. I thought I read that the Hayward S244T was for in ground pools. Would it be alright to use that filter on an AG pool?
    Yes, it would be fine for an inground.

    Although there is a difference in pumps for IG and AG, for filters it's just marketing and maybe different fittings. You can use an IG pump for either. You will typically find equipment marketed for IG pools to be both better quality and more expensive.
    TFP Moderator
    20K Gallon 20X36 Vinyl Inground
    Hayward S244T Sand Filter with 1HP Whisperflo Pump. Liquidator C-201 and Solar Heat

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    Re: Filter sizes

    If you are going to replace the filter and the motor, you might get a better deal with a combo unit. I like the specs of the Pentair Combo pump and filter: PNSD0060DO2260

    It has a 22" 250 lbs filter with a 1 1/2 HP Dynamo two speed pump. But I happen to know that this pump is actually fairly small, efficient and a good fit for the filter.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Filter sizes

    Thank you everyone for responding and helping with this decision. I had decided to go with the Hayward S244T filter, then I realized after examining my pump again that it takes 1" fittings and the filter uses 1 1/2". Is there any proper way to make these compatible? Or should we bite the bullet and buy a new pump too?
    16 x 32 x 54" AG buried 2', Hayward S244T Sand Filter, Hayward 15922S Power Flo Matrix pump

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    Re: Filter sizes

    Me again. Please ignore my previous post. I misunderstood what my husband said about the fittings. The Doughboy pump we have has a SF of 1.0 and it's a 1 1/2 hp. Will that pump work with the Hayward S244T? I'm learning so much on this site. Thank you for being here for everyone.
    16 x 32 x 54" AG buried 2', Hayward S244T Sand Filter, Hayward 15922S Power Flo Matrix pump

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Filter sizes

    Yes it will work. If you decided to buy a new one in the future, as mentioned previously, look into a 2 speed, lower hp pump. It will save you quite a bit of money and help your filter be a bit more efficient.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Filter sizes

    Thanks Linen. I never dreamed that purchasing a new filter would be so involved. I'm glad we checked here first and didn't order the first thing we saw.
    16 x 32 x 54" AG buried 2', Hayward S244T Sand Filter, Hayward 15922S Power Flo Matrix pump

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Filter sizes

    You can get the pump filter combos for not much more than just the Hayward filter you are considering and will end up with a more efficient setup.

    http://www.swimmingpoolsetc.com/pentair ... do2260.htm

    http://www.swimmingpoolsetc.com/hayward ... filter.htm
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: Filter sizes

    mas has a great point about the price of a combo. Question for mas: do you think the larger filter size of S224T paired with a 2 speed 0.34-1.0 hp (maybe added down the road) for an additional ~$140 over the price of the combo you listed is a better way to go? I keep thinking the effective filtration area of 3.14 sq ft (S244T) verses 2.3 sq ft (SD60) is significant.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Filter sizes

    Either way would be fine. I was just trying to give the OP some other options so they wouldn't need to fuss with the old pump and get on a 2 speed pump sooner.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Filter sizes

    Linen and mas985 thanks again for your input. At this point we are seriously considering the Hayward S244T filter and also purchasing a lower HP 2 speed pump. It just seems like the better solution to buy them together at the same time. Can you suggest which model pump we should consider?
    16 x 32 x 54" AG buried 2', Hayward S244T Sand Filter, Hayward 15922S Power Flo Matrix pump

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Filter sizes

    Are you going with separate items to get a bigger filter? If so, that is a good reason and I understand that. But a 3.1 sq-ft filter is going to require a larger pump for backwashing to achieve the recommended 62 GPM for backwashing and a typical AG system in backwash mode will probably have over 35 feet in head loss just due to the suction side plumbing and filter. The largest Hayward Matrix pump (SP1593) would probably work but I would check with the manufacture just to make sure. Also this setup will most likely use more energy than the Pentair combo setup because of the larger pump. The only advantage that I see is less backwash frequency.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Filter sizes

    Mas985 thanks again for the reply. I have read several posts that say to go with the biggest filter you can. And the Hayward S244T was suggested for my pool, that's basically the reason for choosing it. But after reading your last post, I'm confused again about pump size. Since Linen suggested going with bigger 3.1 sq-ft filter we felt pretty good going with that even though it might be bigger than what we need. Now the problem is finding the right pump. Can anyone tell us what pump they have used with this filter for an AG pool? We feel going with a 2 sp pump would be the best choice.
    16 x 32 x 54" AG buried 2', Hayward S244T Sand Filter, Hayward 15922S Power Flo Matrix pump

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    Mod Squad Bama Rambler's Avatar
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    Re: Filter sizes

    You're right about the 2-speed and I'd go with a 1 hp updated for your pool size.
    Dave J. TFP Moderator
    24' x 52" Round AGP. 2hp/¼hp SPL Power-Flo 2-speed pump. 200sqft Waterway Cartridge Filter. 45MHP2(3GPD) Stenner Peristaltic Pump
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