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Thread: New pool owner needs new pump

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    New pool owner needs new pump

    Wow what a wealth of information you guys have here!

    I just bought a short sale house in Central Fl with a 12.5k inground pool. The previous owners didn't do much to keep up the pool, other than add chlorine (which was poured straight down the skimmer ).
    There was a layer of green slime/algea on the bottom of the pool which came up easily with a quick brush. I ran the pump most of the day and bachwashed it afterwards. It had a couple minutes of nasty brown water that came out. Took a sample of water to the PS and said the FC was around 15ppm with the CC at 0ppm. They said bring a sample back in a week to see where the FC is and to go from there (this Thursday will be a week).
    The filter looks to be a Pentair, the label was painted over so I can't tell the model and measurements put it somewhere around a TR-50 and 60. I'm sure the last owners never changed the sand and they had the house for 12 years so I plan on changing it. The only problem is there is about a 75lbs difference between the two possible filter sizes. Although looking more into the specs on the filters it has the level of sand being 9 5/8" from the top for the 50 and 10 1/4" for the 60.
    If I were fill it to about 10" from the top, would that suffice?

    Also the pump needs replacing. It's old, cracked/leaking and louder than a stuck pig! The serial and model numbers are faded away so i have no idea what size it is.
    From the reading I've been doing it sounds that a 3/4hp pump would be just fine.
    There are no valves on the plumbing. The main drain is hooked into the skimmer and I have placed a skimmer diverter in so I can get better flow to clean up the water.
    Any recommendations on any 2 speed pumps?

    The water clarity has come a long way! Not sparkling yet but should be soon.

    I have a TF-100 kit on it's way.

    Any input would be great.
    THANKS!
    12500 gal plaster IGP
    1hp 230v whisperflo dos speed
    Pentair sand filter

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    duraleigh's Avatar
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    Re: New pool owner needs new pump

    Welcome to the forum.

    Lot's to do on your pool but it sounds like your pump is working adequately so I would suggest....

    1. Inspect the sand and clean out any clumps, junk etc that you can. re-leveling to 10" is just fine. Then backwash thoroughly. There is no reason to replace the sand. Adequate chlorine will clean up the filter nicely.

    2. Thoroughly read the article in Pool School on How to shock your pool. As soon as your kit gets in, post a full set of numbers and then we'll help you start the shock process. Stay with that shock process until your water is crystal clear. Ask lots of questions.

    3. The 3/4 hp pump is fine. I would consider reworking your plumbing so you have a little more control. Posting a few pics of your equipment is helpful. The pump projest can be a longer term, no rush sorta' thing.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    susa's Avatar
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    Re: New pool owner needs new pump

    Since you're a new owner, I would recommend a total re-plaster of surface and all new equipment. Whatever equipment you decide on, getting best will pay dividends in silent and trouble free operation for years to come. I spent half the money on my last plaster job versus the money I spent on equipment and I could not be happier with the end result. As I travel for several weeks outside US, each time I return, the automation is spot on and has maintained all chem values in optimal range.

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: Re: New pool owner needs new pump

    Quote Originally Posted by susa
    Since you're a new owner, I would recommend a total re-plaster of surface and all new equipment. Whatever equipment you decide on, getting best will pay dividends in silent and trouble free operation for years to come. I spent half the money on my last plaster job versus the money I spent on equipment and I could not be happier with the end result. As I travel for several weeks outside US, each time I return, the automation is spot on and has maintained all chem values in optimal range.
    Did I miss where the OP even stated it was a plaster pool? This seems like little overkill for a new pool owner. I would think they should get it cleaned up and evaluate the functionality of everything before jumping to a remodel.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
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  5. Back To Top    #5

    Re: New pool owner needs new pump

    Yea the plaster is definitely not a concern at the moment!

    As for the sand, I was under the impression that after 5-10 years the grains lost their sharp edges and did not filter as well. Any truth?
    When filter I have 18psi at the filter. Acceptable? Pressure was the same before and after backwash.

    I'm not sure where the pipe between the inlet and outlet pipe connects to. There is what looks like a vacuum port with a cap on the opposite side of the pool from the skimmer. It might connect to that as there is no suction at the port when pump is running.
    [attachment=1:y2icukoa]pool 2.JPG[/attachment:y2icukoa]
    [attachment=0:y2icukoa]pool 3.JPG[/attachment:y2icukoa]
    Picture was taken through polarized glasses. There seems to be some staining but I'm not concerned about that yet.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    12500 gal plaster IGP
    1hp 230v whisperflo dos speed
    Pentair sand filter

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    Re: New pool owner needs new pump

    [attachment=0:28bftz5v]pool 1.JPG[/attachment:28bftz5v]
    [attachment=1:28bftz5v]pool 4.JPG[/attachment:28bftz5v]
    The pump is leaking from just about everwhere possible on the positive pressure side. I don't think she will last much longer.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    12500 gal plaster IGP
    1hp 230v whisperflo dos speed
    Pentair sand filter

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: New pool owner needs new pump

    Quote Originally Posted by DougieFla
    Any recommendations on any 2 speed pumps?
    What is the plumbing size?
    Is the current pump run on 115v or 230v?

    Whisperflo WFDS-24 or WFDS-3 (same pump size) if you have 115v.
    Superflo SF-N2-1A for 230v.

    The Whisperflo produces a lot of flow rate for the size of the pump so it is better suited for larger plumbing although it really isn't an issue to put on smaller plumbing either. Superflo is just the opposite.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: New pool owner needs new pump

    There has just been some recent discussion about whether the sand "wear-out" that reference This Post. Check out the pictures. Seems like there is no need to replace the sand, but if you are replacing the filter anyway, it can not hurt.

    That pump is probably not saving you any money either on electricity either. You can find the SuperFlo and WhisperFlo from Pentair in 2-speed versions. I will soon be getting a Superflo for myself.

    EDIT: well the resident pump expert beat me to a response (and those are the 2 pumps he mentioned I was looking at ... given my wiring I am going with the -1A)
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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  9. Back To Top    #9

    Re: New pool owner needs new pump

    I had just finished reading "that" post when I saw you replied to this. I'm going to at least pull the cap and inspect the sand and go from there.

    The current pump is 230v. I meant to check the plumbing size before I left today but forgot.
    12500 gal plaster IGP
    1hp 230v whisperflo dos speed
    Pentair sand filter

  10. Back To Top    #10

    Re: New pool owner needs new pump

    Plumbing is 1.5"
    I haven't gotten the tool or found something to take the cap off the sand filter yet.
    The pumps' noise doubled today after an hour of running and I'm kind of embarrassed to run the pump for too long. The search is on for a new pump.
    The guy at the PS tried to talk me into a veriflo pump being that I have plans for a solar heater in the distant future but I'm not too sure on that being the price is triple what it would be for a dual speed pump.

    Had the water tested today:
    TC +9 ppm (they said it was above 15ppm but 9 is the highest they can put in the computer)
    FC +9 ppm (same as above)
    CC 0 ppm
    pH 7.0
    TA 65 ppm
    CH 350 ppm
    CA 110 ppm (tehy said their test wasn't very accurate above 100ppm and that it may be higher than the 110)
    TDS 1400 ppm

    The PS's recommendation was to add 6lbs of TA increaser and come back in two days for another water test...
    12500 gal plaster IGP
    1hp 230v whisperflo dos speed
    Pentair sand filter

  11. Back To Top    #11
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: New pool owner needs new pump

    I see no reason to raise the TA ... just means it may pull your pH up. Just smile and say thanks for the test and head out the door.

    From what I have read, the variable pumps seem to only make $$ sense if you have pretty expensive electricity because you can dial them back even lower than the 2-speed. You can get most of the electric savings by just getting a 2-speed and running on low whenever you can. However, running on high with the small 2-speed is still probably less money than you are currently paying to run you pump.

    I am getting the Superflo Mark recommended above and will just likely have to run on high when I am heating and try to run on low when I am not. But, like I said, on high I am still saving money over my current 2HP single speed.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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  12. Back To Top    #12

    Re: New pool owner needs new pump

    The PS was saying that the low TA could damage the plaster.

    Also the "ideal level" on the water test print out is 7.4-7.6 for pH and 80-120ppm for TA. My water is low in both areas, so if I were to increase the TA, and you say that would/could increase the pH, would that be a bad thing/wrong way to go?
    12500 gal plaster IGP
    1hp 230v whisperflo dos speed
    Pentair sand filter

  13. Back To Top    #13
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: New pool owner needs new pump

    OK, I retract my earlier statement.

    Have you played with http://www.poolcalculator.com ?

    I put your info in the left column and the key thing I want to see was your Saturation Index CSI. Right now it is around -0.9 and that actually could start to damage the plaster.

    On the forums we usually see people trying to lower the TA so that was why I had my original statement. But checking the numbers revealed the CSI issue.

    On the tool you can play with the target in the right column and see how changing 1 thing affects the CSI. If you just raised the pH to your CSI would be -0.5 which is in the safe zone. You can raise your pH by aerating and that will not raise your TA, however in your case, the TA probably should come up to 80-90 with pH closer to 7.5 putting the CSI around -0.3.

    Note: if the TA is too high is tends to pull the pH up ... thus the reason people try to lower the TA so that they do not have to keep adding acid to lower pH.

    EDIT: BTW, you can use baking soda to raise the pH and TA and it is probably a lot cheaper than the pH+ stuff the PS tries to sell.

    EDIT2: In the tool, don't forget to set you pool size at the top and the Goal Levels at the bottom. Then it will tell you how much baking soda you want to add ... you probably want to start around 40 oz by weight or 30 oz by volume of baking soda.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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    Re: New pool owner needs new pump

    Thanks!
    Just played around with the calculator, took me a minute to figure out how it all worked. 103 / 82 oz of baking soda. I'm currently in the "plaster damage likely" zone.
    With you saying 40oz, is that because it's easier to add more and more difficult to reverse too much?

    I'm going to drain some water tomorrow to lower the CYA and CH. Then add some baking soda and test it again Saturday or Sunday. Sound like a good plan?
    (If the motor holds out...)


    Also, as for the motor...
    I need to get something figured out with it pretty quick. I found this http://www.poolproductsuperstore.com...t=1749&feed8=1 motor. Was the cheapest I found with good reviews of the company on Google.
    What should I look for for a timer?
    12500 gal plaster IGP
    1hp 230v whisperflo dos speed
    Pentair sand filter

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    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: New pool owner needs new pump

    Quote Originally Posted by DougieFla
    Thanks!
    Just played around with the calculator, took me a minute to figure out how it all worked. 103 / 82 oz of baking soda.
    With you saying 40oz, is that because it's easier to add more and more difficult to reverse too much?
    We must have had different inputs (I used what you posted with 12500 gallons and a temp of 70, salt at 1000) because I saw 31/25 oz to raise pH 7-7.5 and 44/35 oz to raise TA from 65-80 ... giving a CSI (-.32) ... so I said 40 oz as a number between the 2 suggestions ... they are not additive. Always easier to add more though after retesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by DougieFla
    I'm going to drain some water tomorrow to lower the CYA and CH. Then add some baking soda and test it again Saturday or Sunday. Sound like a good plan?
    (If the motor holds out...)
    I would drain, refill, test, and then add what you think you need based on the calculator

    Quote Originally Posted by DougieFla
    Also, as for the motor...
    I need to get something figured out with it pretty quick. I found this http://www.poolproductsuperstore.com...t=1749&feed8=1 motor. Was the cheapest I found with good reviews of the company on Google.
    What should I look for for a timer?
    That is the pump I am going to get. There is also a 3/4HP version that is 115V and not 230V (depending on what you have already). I found it somewhere for under $400 ... just found it again at ezpoolz.com (I know nothing about the company). A simple Intermatic mechanical dial timer is bulletproof ... do you not have a current timer?
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  16. Back To Top    #16

    Re: New pool owner needs new pump

    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle
    We must have had different inputs (I used what you posted with 12500 gallons and a temp of 70, salt at 1000) because I saw 31/25 oz to raise pH 7-7.5 and 44/35 oz to raise TA from 65-80 ... giving a CSI (-.32) ... so I said 40 oz as a number between the 2 suggestions ... they are not additive. Always easier to add more though after retesting.
    I didn't put anything in for "salt." I don't have an SWG.
    With the 'fill ins' at the bottom of the page I put levels from TFP.com, Bleach and Plaster and it came out to -0.76
    Maybe I'm still a bit lost on how this calc. works.



    I would drain, refill, test, and then add what you think you need based on the calculator
    OK

    That is the pump I am going to get. There is also a 3/4HP version that is 115V and not 230V (depending on what you have already). I found it somewhere for under $400 ... just found it again at ezpoolz.com (I know nothing about the company). A simple Intermatic mechanical dial timer is bulletproof ... do you not have a current timer?
    I do have a timer now but don't I need a different one for the dual speed motor?
    12500 gal plaster IGP
    1hp 230v whisperflo dos speed
    Pentair sand filter

  17. Back To Top    #17
    linen's Avatar
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    Re: New pool owner needs new pump

    Since you have a tf-100 coming and Duraleigh is so fast at shipping, I would probably wait to make adjustments in your chemistry (including waiting to drain) until you do your first tests. Then post your numbers!
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

  18. Back To Top    #18

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    Re: New pool owner needs new pump

    You can get that same pump here - http://www.a1poolparts.com/-strse-1846/ ... Detail.bok and save some money .
    16x32 IG 19,000 gallons, Pentair 1.5 hp Energy Efficient Superflo pump (348024),vinyl liner, Chlorine dispenser, Hayward S-244T sand filter

  19. Back To Top    #19
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: New pool owner needs new pump

    Quote Originally Posted by DougieFla
    Quote Originally Posted by jblizzle
    We must have had different inputs (I used what you posted with 12500 gallons and a temp of 70, salt at 1000) because I saw 31/25 oz to raise pH 7-7.5 and 44/35 oz to raise TA from 65-80 ... giving a CSI (-.32) ... so I said 40 oz as a number between the 2 suggestions ... they are not additive. Always easier to add more though after retesting.
    I didn't put anything in for "salt." I don't have an SWG.
    With the 'fill ins' at the bottom of the page I put levels from TFP.com, Bleach and Plaster and it came out to -0.76
    Maybe I'm still a bit lost on how this calc. works.



    I would drain, refill, test, and then add what you think you need based on the calculator
    OK

    That is the pump I am going to get. There is also a 3/4HP version that is 115V and not 230V (depending on what you have already). I found it somewhere for under $400 ... just found it again at ezpoolz.com (I know nothing about the company). A simple Intermatic mechanical dial timer is bulletproof ... do you not have a current timer?
    I do have a timer now but don't I need a different one for the dual speed motor?
    I agree it may be worth waiting for your own test kit before doing much ... although if they said the CYA was high they are probably right and might be worth doing the drain and fill before the kit comes.

    Now lets see if we can figure out the PC.com difference:
    I am guessing you have the temperature higher than I did?
    Here is what I put in going down: 12500,9,7,65,350,110,1000,0,70 = -0.9 using TFP/bleach/plaster

    I guessed the salt at 1000ppm based on the TDS number (I wild guess by me) and knowing that bleach adds salt so I am sure it is not zero.

    what did you then set as target levels?
    All I changed was pH to 7.5 and TA to 80 to get a CSI = -0.32
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
    If you found TFP helpful and we saved you money ... Become a TFP Supporter!

  20. Back To Top    #20
    Mod Squad jblizzle's Avatar
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    Re: New pool owner needs new pump

    Oh and the timer ... you can either get a dual speed timer, or just wire it to your existing timer and use a manual switch to pick speed. Only danger might be if you leave it on Low and for whatever reason the pump lost prime overnight.

    Actually, now I am not sure if the Superflo what a switch built-in or not.
    Jason, TFP Moderator
    18k IG pebblesheen pool, Hayward ProLogic P4 w/ T-15 SWG, Pentair 1HP 2-speed Superflo, Hayward 6020 DE filter
    500 sqft Heliocol solar panels, ThePoolCleaner, TF-100 test kit w/ SpeedStir
    Pool School + Test Kit + PoolMath = A TROUBLE FREE POOL
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