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Thread: ? on a coper system

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    ? on a coper system

    Has any one heard of this type of system?
    I have a cousin that just purchae a system at a local pool buissness and it use's no salt ,no chlorine just some type of coper and other things.
    If so what's some feed back on it? thanks
    24' AGP sandstone,12,000 gal , cricupool rj30 SWG,fas-dpd test kit. BBB

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    Mod Squad zea3's Avatar
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    Re: ? on a coper system

    There is no such thing as a copper only sanitation system for a pool or spa. If you look up the web pages for systems such as Nature2 or Mineral Frog, you will see they also require the addition of chlorine, bromine, or baquacil as a primary sanitizer. Copper can help control algae, but the drawbacks of using copper for algae control far outweigh the benefits. Copper stains pool surfaces and causes blond hair to turn green.

    Do a google search for Nature2 or Mineral Frog at the bottom left of this page and you can read all about other members experiences with these systems.
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    Re: ? on a coper system

    Quote Originally Posted by zea3
    There is no such thing as a copper only sanitation system for a pool or spa. If you look up the web pages for systems such as Nature2 or Mineral Frog, you will see they also require the addition of chlorine, bromine, or baquacil as a primary sanitizer. Copper can help control algae, but the drawbacks of using copper for algae control far outweigh the benefits. Copper stains pool surfaces and causes blond hair to turn green.

    Do a google search for Nature2 or Mineral Frog at the bottom left of this page and you can read all about other members experiences with these systems.
    Power Ionizer system? that what he said it called. I am going look at it now
    24' AGP sandstone,12,000 gal , cricupool rj30 SWG,fas-dpd test kit. BBB

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    Mod Squad zea3's Avatar
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    Re: ? on a coper system

    I have read the info on this page. Note, in section 3 it requires a 1.0-3.0 chlorine residual for a few days until the ionizer gets up to speed. Then, in section 6, it recommends shocking the pool on a weekly basis or more if needed. And you are supposed to use algaecide if you start to see algae.

    They also recommend 0ppm of stabilizer or CYA in the pool. That means the pool will have to be drained and refilled before installing the system to get the 0 CYA level if you have any CYA in the water. However, they also recommend shocking with dichlor, which adds CYA to the pool. If your cousin follows these instructions to the letter they will be draining the pool on a regular basis.

    By the way, a weekly dose of shock is the standard pool store recommendation for a chlorine pool. Your cousin will be using just as much chlorine with the Power Ionizer as someone who follows standard pool store recommendations and didn't shell out a couple of hundred bucks on the power ionizer system.
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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: ? on a coper system

    It amazes me that the "truth in advertising" does kick in on these things. Basically they hide in the fine print/end of the instructions the reason the system can sanitize, and it's not due to the equipment being sold In the end, with all the shocking going, it's just like following "shock once a week" pool store advice, only a lot more expensive

    Bullet20, you may want to reinforce to your cousin the need still for a sanitizer (Chlorine,Bromine, biguanide). By the way here is a good read: http://www.troublefreepool.com/alter...uth-t3025.html
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: ? on a coper system

    Really, there is no easy way around having no sanitizer in the pool. Metals such as copper stain surfaces, turn hair green, and leave your water unproteected when it comes to dangerous pathogens. There are only three sanitizers that are EPA approved: chlorine, bromine, and PMHB. Copper is not one of them. Please don't fall for the line that they are feeding you on copper only systems.

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    Re: ? on a coper system

    Quote Originally Posted by zea3
    I have read the info on this page. Note, in section 3 it requires a 1.0-3.0 chlorine residual for a few days until the ionizer gets up to speed. Then, in section 6, it recommends shocking the pool on a weekly basis or more if needed. And you are supposed to use algaecide if you start to see algae.

    They also recommend 0ppm of stabilizer or CYA in the pool. That means the pool will have to be drained and refilled before installing the system to get the 0 CYA level if you have any CYA in the water. However, they also recommend shocking with dichlor, which adds CYA to the pool. If your cousin follows these instructions to the letter they will be draining the pool on a regular basis.

    By the way, a weekly dose of shock is the standard pool store recommendation for a chlorine pool. Your cousin will be using just as much chlorine with the Power Ionizer as someone who follows standard pool store recommendations and didn't shell out a couple of hundred bucks on the power ionizer system.
    It's just like u said,he still will put a bag of shock 1 a week with other ingeredients,and a bag a day for first 3 days.Ill see how much he spends $$ on his new start up this year.
    I started mine up 3 days ago for 2nd year with BBB method and swg.This year i spent about $40 on bleach and 1 gal. muratic acid,some cya,so about $55 and i went from green to almost clear today in 3 days.
    Last year i started the BBB in the spring with a new SWG and all summer-fall i didn't spend much after first start up only on muratic acid and a lil bleach every none in then.
    24' AGP sandstone,12,000 gal , cricupool rj30 SWG,fas-dpd test kit. BBB

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    Re: ? on a coper system

    I know TFP doesn't recommend it, but before I found this website I had a copper pool (Rain Forest Blue). I almost switched back to chlorine when I couldn't find the product in bulk but two members of my family begged me to "keep looking" because they liked swimming in the copper pool better. In fact, my husband rarely swam before I started using the RFB. Personally, I liked the ease of using an odorless additive.

    I do have bluish plaster, but it was stained and discolored when we moved in (needs replastering) and actually looks more uniform now! I figure it's no different than tinted plaster. If I get new plaster and it stains unevenly, I might change my mind. I'm told if I get the proper balance it will leech out and back into the water. At any rate, it doesn't seem to be "accumulating" more stain, so I'm not concerned about it.

    I'm not advocating or arguing for a copper pool. To each his own. I AM grateful to TFP for giving me a formula I can understand to shock my pool and bring it from swamp to oasis after falling behind on the leaves during the Thanksgiving and Christmas season and the tools to apply it instead of vague, conflicting advice from pool supply stores.

    But I must say, my pool has never turned anyone's blond hair green.

    I must also say that while sanitizing the water is a must, one can use a non-chlorine shock to do that. But yes, it's not any less expensive.

    I have a non-copper but related question. I used non-chlorine shock on a weekly basis at first. This worked fine. It seems others on this site are always working to keep pH up. We are always pouring in m. acid to bring it down. Then I got the *bright* idea to use dichlor for my weekly shock since it brings the pH down. The chlorine levels would drop back to zero within a day so as not to offend the above family members. This worked like a charm; I used much less muriatic acid. I have done this for at least two years with no problems and sparkling water in the summer, not realizing that I was possibly creating a problem with excessive CYA. I had tested for CYA and could ALWAYS see the black dot and quit testing, assuming it was near zero and not understanding that it accumulates.

    So I had the CYA tested today and the result was 125ppm. Frankly, I expected it to be much higher after studying up on it. My question is: Does this test result seem reasonable after at least two years of adding 24 oz dichlor on a weekly basis (from at least Mar through Oct) to a 25,000 gallon pool?
    38x18 25K gal IG plaster/gunite pool with diving board and steps
    Hayward pump | Polaris 500 series | Sand Filter
    Rain Forest Blue with weekly dichlor shock

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: ? on a coper system

    Quote Originally Posted by waterlily
    I must also say that while sanitizing the water is a must, one can use a non-chlorine shock to do that.
    What do you use?
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: ? on a coper system

    Quote Originally Posted by waterlily
    So I had the CYA tested today and the result was 125ppm. Frankly, I expected it to be much higher after studying up on it. My question is: Does this test result seem reasonable after at least two years of adding 24 oz dichlor on a weekly basis (from at least Mar through Oct) to a 25,000 gallon pool?
    How are you testing for CYA? CYA testing typically is not accurate above 100 ppm, so it is likely you have much higher than 125 ppm of CYA.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    JasonLion's Avatar
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    Re: ? on a coper system

    Two years with six months each of 24 oz of dichlor each week would raise CYA by 180 or so. Presumably there was some water replacement at some point, so 125 is very reasonable. Somewhat lower and quite a bit higher are also plausible, without knowing more about the amount of water replacement that has occurred.
    19K gal, vinyl, 1/2 HP WhisperFlo pump, 200 sqft cartridge filter, AutoPilot Digital SWG, Dolphin Dynamic cleaning robot
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    Re: ? on a coper system

    Quote Originally Posted by linen
    Quote Originally Posted by waterlily
    I must also say that while sanitizing the water is a must, one can use a non-chlorine shock to do that.
    What do you use?
    I used RAM Clearox (potassium monopersulfate or MPS) when I was using non-chlorine shock, but for the last two years I've used dichlor.
    38x18 25K gal IG plaster/gunite pool with diving board and steps
    Hayward pump | Polaris 500 series | Sand Filter
    Rain Forest Blue with weekly dichlor shock

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    Re: ? on a coper system

    Quote Originally Posted by linen
    Quote Originally Posted by waterlily
    So I had the CYA tested today and the result was 125ppm. Frankly, I expected it to be much higher after studying up on it. My question is: Does this test result seem reasonable after at least two years of adding 24 oz dichlor on a weekly basis (from at least Mar through Oct) to a 25,000 gallon pool?
    How are you testing for CYA? CYA testing typically is not accurate above 100 ppm, so it is likely you have much higher than 125 ppm of CYA.
    I was out of CYA reagent so I took it to a pool store. Which is why I was asking about this. I don't have 100% confidence in their test results, but they were pretty close to mine this time on the other tests.
    38x18 25K gal IG plaster/gunite pool with diving board and steps
    Hayward pump | Polaris 500 series | Sand Filter
    Rain Forest Blue with weekly dichlor shock

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    Re: ? on a coper system

    Quote Originally Posted by JasonLion
    Two years with six months each of 24 oz of dichlor each week would raise CYA by 180 or so. Presumably there was some water replacement at some point, so 125 is very reasonable. Somewhat lower and quite a bit higher are also plausible, without knowing more about the amount of water replacement that has occurred.
    I've not drained any water to replace -- only replaced what has evaporated which seemed like a lot last summer.
    38x18 25K gal IG plaster/gunite pool with diving board and steps
    Hayward pump | Polaris 500 series | Sand Filter
    Rain Forest Blue with weekly dichlor shock

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    linen's Avatar
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    Re: ? on a coper system

    Quote Originally Posted by waterlily
    Quote Originally Posted by linen
    Quote Originally Posted by waterlily
    I must also say that while sanitizing the water is a must, one can use a non-chlorine shock to do that.
    What do you use?
    I used RAM Clearox (potassium monopersulfate or MPS) when I was using non-chlorine shock, but for the last two years I've used dichlor.
    The MPS is an oxidizer and not a sanitizer. You still needed a sanitizer like the chlorine in dichlor, but as you have experienced, dichlor also adds CYA which eventually becomes problematic in high concentrations.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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