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Thread: Nicks pool! and its kinda a mess.

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    Nicks pool! and its kinda a mess.

    Hi all!

    Just moved into a place with a pool, and after blindly listening to the pool store people with no decent results, I've decided to take it into my own hands.

    Just got my TF-100 in the mail so I was excited to give it a whirl. I have a couple of questions though:
    1) For the T/A test. Am I adding drips 'till it turns RED red, or as soon as it flips to a pinkish? I'm assuming as soon as it flips.
    2) For the CH test. It doesn't look like the reagent fully mixed with the water. Looked like little flakes in there. They did turn blue, however. It just seemed like a very high number compared to my last two pool store results and the hardener that I added. (started at 85, added 8lbs of hardener) Pool store measured 225, I measured ~270.
    3) For the CYA test, how hard am I looking for that black dot? obscured or absolutely cannot see it? I can see it if I concentrate hard enough, but i don't know if I'm making too much of an effort. I was most concerned about this number. Pool store said I was at 0 on my first test, so I added 4lbs of solid acid. Next test from them had me at 100, which I thought was from my chlorinator. My result was around 20, depending on my answer to the above question. I believe none of them if I actually did start at zero.

    By the way, I emptied out the chlorinator. It had completely eaten one puck and the other 6 were thinning out, but still there. I'm not going to be using it, except for when I'm out of town. It takes for-ev-er to drain water from my pool, so I don't want those CYA levels up.

    Anywho, I'm going to use this thread to get myself from the mess I have now to a sparkling pool.

    My main issue right now appears to be black algae. It's all over the shallow end an there's spots in the deep end. Other than that (ha), I just have to keep the sand from accumulating.

    On to my first results:
    FC: 0
    pH:7.5
    T/A:100
    CH:270
    CYA:20
    Temp:74

    I'm going to go to mustard shock level asap and keep it there 'till I grow arms of steel scrubbing all of the black algae.

    My pool details: 14000gal in-ground Marcite, cartridge filter.
    My pool: 14,000gal in-ground. marcite, cartridge filter, no bells and whistles.

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    Re: Nicks pool! and its kinda a mess.

    Quote Originally Posted by slicknick13
    ... and after blindly listening to the pool store people with no decent results, I've decided to take it into my own hands.
    Threads that start like this are among my favorites. Welcome to the forum. The experts will be along shortly, but I'll make the following request first on behalf of everyone: post pictures please!!
    33' round, 23,000 gal AG vinyl , 1HP 2spd PowerFlo Matrix downsized with 3/4HP impeller (X2), Hayward S180T 150# sand filter (X2), Hayward H250 NG heater Pool Store year 1 - $850 for 2 months; Pool Store year 2 - $440 for 2 months, TFPC year 1 - $170 for 4 months; TFPC year 2 - $95 for 4.5 months
    The most important article on this site - The ABCs of Pool Water Chemistry

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    Re: Nicks pool! and its kinda a mess.

    Quote Originally Posted by slicknick13
    Hi all!

    Just moved into a place with a pool, and after blindly listening to the pool store people with no decent results, I've decided to take it into my own hands.

    Just got my TF-100 in the mail so I was excited to give it a whirl. I have a couple of questions though:
    1) For the T/A test. Am I adding drips 'till it turns RED red, or as soon as it flips to a pinkish? I'm assuming as soon as it flips.
    2) For the CH test. It doesn't look like the reagent fully mixed with the water. Looked like little flakes in there. They did turn blue, however. It just seemed like a very high number compared to my last two pool store results and the hardener that I added. (started at 85, added 8lbs of hardener) Pool store measured 225, I measured ~270.
    3) For the CYA test, how hard am I looking for that black dot? obscured or absolutely cannot see it? I can see it if I concentrate hard enough, but i don't know if I'm making too much of an effort. I was most concerned about this number. Pool store said I was at 0 on my first test, so I added 4lbs of solid acid. Next test from them had me at 100, which I thought was from my chlorinator. My result was around 20, depending on my answer to the above question. I believe none of them if I actually did start at zero.

    By the way, I emptied out the chlorinator. It had completely eaten one puck and the other 6 were thinning out, but still there. I'm not going to be using it, except for when I'm out of town. It takes for-ev-er to drain water from my pool, so I don't want those CYA levels up.

    Anywho, I'm going to use this thread to get myself from the mess I have now to a sparkling pool.

    My main issue right now appears to be black algae. It's all over the shallow end an there's spots in the deep end. Other than that (ha), I just have to keep the sand from accumulating.

    On to my first results:
    FC: 0
    pH:7.5
    T/A:100
    CH:270
    CYA:20
    Temp:74

    I'm going to go to mustard shock level asap and keep it there 'till I grow arms of steel scrubbing all of the black algae.

    My pool details: 14000gal in-ground Marcite, cartridge filter.
    First of all welcome to the forum you have come to the right place for help.

    On the test you keep adding drops until the last drop makes no color change. When the last drop makes no color change subtract that from the total drops and that is what you use.

    Here this should help about the CYA test. It has pictures for you to compare. And the black dot should not be visible.

    http://www.taylortechnologies.com/Chemi ... ntentID=36

    And finally I always trust my test results VS the pool store results. I know I am doing it right. Every now and then I will take a sample just to see what they get vs what I get. Other than that trust yourself.

    Also if you have not gotten one if you can afford it get the speed stirrer from the TF100 website. It will make testing that much easier especially since you will be shocking, trust me I learned from experience.

    And again welcome and I am sure others will be along shortly.

    Here is a personal result of what can happen when you listen to advice given here. This was my own pool and may not be as bad as some, but still shows that what advice is given here works.

    my-journey-from-green-to-crystal-clear-t20117.html?hilit=green

    Here is another one as well that can help you get going. This is not my pool just someone elses on the board.

    thanks-tfp-swamp-to-swim-in-12-days-t38593.html
    13,000 Plaster IG Pool approx
    Hayward C5030 Cart Filter
    Emerson 1081 EB653 1.0 HP 1.40 S.F. 3450 RPM
    Pool Calculator, Pool School, TF Test Kits

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    Re: Nicks pool! and its kinda a mess.

    Quote Originally Posted by slicknick13
    Hi all!

    Just moved into a place with a pool, and after blindly listening to the pool store people with no decent results, I've decided to take it into my own hands.

    Just got my TF-100 in the mail so I was excited to give it a whirl. I have a couple of questions though:
    1) For the T/A test. Am I adding drips 'till it turns RED red, or as soon as it flips to a pinkish? I'm assuming as soon as it flips.

    The TA test is not finished when the color turns to pink. Keep adding drops until the color stops turning color. For me, when it turns pink, one more drop turns it hot pink and stays the same hot pink with more drops. Then test is measured from the last drop that made a color change.

    2) For the CH test. It doesn't look like the reagent fully mixed with the water. Looked like little flakes in there. They did turn blue, however. It just seemed like a very high number compared to my last two pool store results and the hardener that I added. (started at 85, added 8lbs of hardener) Pool store measured 225, I measured ~270.

    Your testing will be more reliable than the pool store with the test you have. The most important thing with test CH is stirring the drops enough. This is where the speed stir is a great tool and makes testing much easier and faster.

    3) For the CYA test, how hard am I looking for that black dot? obscured or absolutely cannot see it? I can see it if I concentrate hard enough, but i don't know if I'm making too much of an effort. I was most concerned about this number. Pool store said I was at 0 on my first test, so I added 4lbs of solid acid. Next test from them had me at 100, which I thought was from my chlorinator. My result was around 20, depending on my answer to the above question. I believe none of them if I actually did start at zero.

    The black dot needs to be completely gone from view. As you have seen, pool store testing can vary by a wide margin.

    By the way, I emptied out the chlorinator. It had completely eaten one puck and the other 6 were thinning out, but still there. I'm not going to be using it, except for when I'm out of town. It takes for-ev-er to drain water from my pool, so I don't want those CYA levels up.

    Anywho, I'm going to use this thread to get myself from the mess I have now to a sparkling pool.

    My main issue right now appears to be black algae. It's all over the shallow end an there's spots in the deep end. Other than that (ha), I just have to keep the sand from accumulating.

    On to my first results:
    FC: 0
    pH:7.5
    T/A:100
    CH:270
    CYA:20
    Temp:74

    I'm going to go to mustard shock level asap and keep it there 'till I grow arms of steel scrubbing all of the black algae.
    Good luck and it sounds like you are well underway to understanding your pool water.

    My pool details: 14000gal in-ground Marcite, cartridge filter.
    16k gal plaster with raised spa, Jandy DEV60 filter, 2 HP 2-speed SHPF Jandy Stealth pump
    Hayward Aqua Rite T-15 SWCG, Jandy LXi 400k BTU NG heater, 350 sq.ft. of Sun Star solar panels, TF-100 Test Kit, Dolphin s300i Cleaner
    Test Kits . Pool Math . Chlorine/CYA Chart . The SLAM Process

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    Re: Nicks pool! and its kinda a mess.

    sn13,

    The folks above are not our most senior members but their advice ranks right at the top!!

    There is nothing more I can add but "Welcome to the forum. "
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Nicks pool! and its kinda a mess.

    Thanks, All!

    Now that I have numbers that I can trust and check on a whim, I cranked up my chlorine level and am keeping it up there for the foreseeable future. So now it's just a waiting... and scrubbing... game.
    My pool: 14,000gal in-ground. marcite, cartridge filter, no bells and whistles.

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    Re: Nicks pool! and its kinda a mess.

    So I've been at this for almost a week now, and while my pool was never a swamp or anything, it was cloudy. And it still is. I've been keeping my FC levels in the 20's, sweeping with the algae brush each night, and vacuuming as much as I can. I clean the filter twice a day.

    My question is that I've read that a high CC level means you're actually killing stuff. Mine has never been above 0.5 after the first day. I've been losing 6.5 points of FC a night over the past several tests. Is this about right?
    I've really seen no change in clarity, but I certainly get a white dustup everytime I brush. The black patch covering the shallow end hasn't changed at all either. I also get a lot of sand blowing in, which isn't going to change.

    I have a bottle of clarifier, which really clears up the pool when I've used it before. Should I dump some in and vacuum to get the wheels of clarity rollin'?

    I'm all about staying the course as long as it's gonna take, I just want to be sure I'm not screwing up here.
    My pool: 14,000gal in-ground. marcite, cartridge filter, no bells and whistles.

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    Re: Nicks pool! and its kinda a mess.

    As long as you are not holding your FC overnight continue to hold the FC at shock level.

    At this point, please post your test results and we can offer more advise from your results. It is very important to have the correct amount of FC to CYA in your pool for the shock process. Your pH reading will not be reliable with your FC above 10ppm.

    The shocking process will be over after all three requirements have been met; OCLT=1ppm or less, CC=.5ppm or less, and your water is clear. I went through this process last year with my pool and my water was always clear with CC= to .5ppm, but I couldn't pass the OCLT for a full week. Since then I have had a truly trouble free pool.

    Keep on scrubbing the black patch as much as you can.

    I will let the real experts chime in on the clarifier.
    16k gal plaster with raised spa, Jandy DEV60 filter, 2 HP 2-speed SHPF Jandy Stealth pump
    Hayward Aqua Rite T-15 SWCG, Jandy LXi 400k BTU NG heater, 350 sq.ft. of Sun Star solar panels, TF-100 Test Kit, Dolphin s300i Cleaner
    Test Kits . Pool Math . Chlorine/CYA Chart . The SLAM Process

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    Re: Nicks pool! and its kinda a mess.

    Ok, so I finally got around to a test. I only tested Chlorine and CYA, as the rest are irrelevant at this time, correct?

    FC - 24.5 I usually come home at lunch and check. I've never dipped below mustard shock level for a CYA of 20, except for last night. I hit 11.
    CC - <0.5
    CYA - 20 or less, depends on how long I stare. BTW, the pool store consistently measures this at 80-100 (I usually have them run a test when I get chlorine jugs)

    I'm thinking I should bring that CYA up to knock sunlight loss down, but I'm so paranoid about going over, it takes forever to take water out. In theory, I should be about 35-40 on the CYA test (started at zero, added 4 pounds), so I dunno what happened there.
    My pool: 14,000gal in-ground. marcite, cartridge filter, no bells and whistles.

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    Re: Nicks pool! and its kinda a mess.

    Have you run an OCLT, overnight chlorine loss test, yet? This test will tell you if the pool still has organics in it that are consuming the FC. If you don't know how to do the OCLT look for it in pool school or ask us and we will find it for you.

    Keep your FC at shock level for 40ppm CYA since you added 4lbs of CYA. If you cleaned your filter within a week of adding your CYA, depending on what type of CYA and how it was added, you could have rinsed it out of the filter before it dissolved. This could be one reason why your CYA test reads low, but it is a test that is +-15ppm anyways. The way I try to make this test more accurate is by using a graduated cylinder for measuring the amount of water and CYA solution. I have found some of the cheaper cylinders are not accurate for the graduations though and always fill to the same line for the water and then the CYA solution, then mix them together in the mixing bottle. With my cheaper cylinders if I add water to the 15ml line and then add the CYA solution to the 30ml line, I actually end up with 18ml of water and 12ml of solution which made my readings lower than what they were. I now use a cylinder that is accurate for this test.

    Make sure your pump is running 24/7, brush as much as possible, and run the OCLT.
    16k gal plaster with raised spa, Jandy DEV60 filter, 2 HP 2-speed SHPF Jandy Stealth pump
    Hayward Aqua Rite T-15 SWCG, Jandy LXi 400k BTU NG heater, 350 sq.ft. of Sun Star solar panels, TF-100 Test Kit, Dolphin s300i Cleaner
    Test Kits . Pool Math . Chlorine/CYA Chart . The SLAM Process

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    Re: Nicks pool! and its kinda a mess.

    Welcome neighbor Pics before and after would be nice . Follow the advice here and you will have a sparkling pool soon
    6,000 gal, IG free form,Beach Series Antigua by Marbletite Pebble finish,Sheer Descent, IG Fountain, Dolphin / Mermaid Statues,Dura- Glas 1.5hp pump,Hayward Pro-grid DE4820, Aqua Rite SWG with T-Cell 15,Heat Siphon Heat Pump DX 5.0 109,000 btu, Pool Cage, 1800sq ft Tremron Estate Pavers,Aquatherm Ecosun Solar Panels 192 sq ft with GL-235 Controller,Pentair IntelliBrite, Apollo Magnetic Stirrer Our New Poolbuild, Jacksonville, FL yr 2009 Solar install Outdoor kitchen upgrade

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    Re: Nicks pool! and its kinda a mess.

    Quote Originally Posted by slicknick13
    Ok, so I finally got around to a test. I only tested Chlorine and CYA, as the rest are irrelevant at this time, correct?
    FC and CC is all you need while shocking assuming you know how much CYA you have put in the pool. I would wait a few days after adding the CYA to test again.

    Quote Originally Posted by slicknick13
    CYA - 20 or less, depends on how long I stare. BTW, the pool store consistently measures this at 80-100 (I usually have them run a test when I get chlorine jugs)

    I'm thinking I should bring that CYA up to knock sunlight loss down, but I'm so paranoid about going over, it takes forever to take water out. In theory, I should be about 35-40 on the CYA test (started at zero, added 4 pounds), so I dunno what happened there.
    poolcalculator says that for your 14000 gallon pool 4 lbs CYA should raise you to 34 ppm. As ping mentioned, if you added it to the skimmer and have backwashed you might have lost some. When and how did you add the CYA? It can take a week to show up in the test. I would continue shocking now for a 34 ppm CYA (I get 14 ppm minimum FC). Post your OCLT after tonight and lets see where you are. How does the water look?
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Nicks pool! and its kinda a mess.

    Well, here's my before:





    And where we're at a week later:





    It's really hard to take nice pictures of water.. I can see the drains and all just fine. maybe I'm shooting for a level of clear that is unobtainable. Regardless, I'm still losing it overnight and still have my ugly blackness.

    Anywho, I had dumped that CYA in weeks ago. I'm sure I washed some of it out, I can't remember what I was doing then. Knowing me, I left it run a few days. I'll just keep my mustard shock at the assumed CYA level of around 34.

    I had been losing about 6 points a night on the OCLT. I haven't done it since Thursday though.

    I guess looking at those photos now, the black splotch in the shallow end is dulling. I went out there with a flashlight last night playing around, it almost looks like I can scrape the stuff off like a layer. I won't be going in there to find that out though..
    My pool: 14,000gal in-ground. marcite, cartridge filter, no bells and whistles.

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    Re: Nicks pool! and its kinda a mess.

    Your pool is definitely looking better!
    Quote Originally Posted by slicknick13
    maybe I'm shooting for a level of clear that is unobtainable. Regardless, I'm still losing it overnight and still have my ugly blackness.
    Keep going on the "shocking" process! It will get clearer once you are done.
    Quote Originally Posted by slicknick13
    Anywho, I had dumped that CYA in weeks ago. I'm sure I washed some of it out, I can't remember what I was doing then. Knowing me, I left it run a few days. I'll just keep my mustard shock at the assumed CYA level of around 34.[/qoute]Where did you put the CYA, in the skimmer? And were you backwashing? Since it has been in there for "weeks" it is probably fully dissolved. Measure you CYA again to make sure you are getting repeatable results and let us know the value.
    Quote Originally Posted by slicknick13
    I had been losing about 6 points a night on the OCLT. I haven't done it since Thursday though.
    Let us know your next OCLT result.
    Quote Originally Posted by slicknick13
    I guess looking at those photos now, the black splotch in the shallow end is dulling. I went out there with a flashlight last night playing around, it almost looks like I can scrape the stuff off like a layer. I won't be going in there to find that out though..
    If it is organic, the shocking process should remove it.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: Nicks pool! and its kinda a mess.

    OCLT 4/3:
    Nite - 30
    Morning - 25.5



    Is there anything that I can do short of getting a cover to slow down the loss i'm having due to sunlight? maybe point my returns to the bottom or something?
    My pool: 14,000gal in-ground. marcite, cartridge filter, no bells and whistles.

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    Re: Nicks pool! and its kinda a mess.

    Dumb question here, but could my dark rough patches be calcium scale? just scratchin' around anywhere gives me a plume of white dust and it seems to come off if I scrape at it. I have no idea how the pool was taken care of before I started, and I honestly don't know what the surface of a plaster pool should feel like, I grew up around nothing but vinyl lined pools. My filter pressure has been holding steady finally, but anytime I backwash the cartridge, it comes out milky.
    My pool: 14,000gal in-ground. marcite, cartridge filter, no bells and whistles.

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    Re: Nicks pool! and its kinda a mess.

    Is there anything that I can do short of getting a cover to slow down the loss i'm having due to sunlight?
    No. Your CYA in the mid 30's is about right since you are still shocking. Your loss from the sun is probably only about 3ppm or so daily. Your loss from organics in your pool is still the real consumer.

    The white powder is interesting but a little puzzling. Calcium scale typically "sticks" to the walls. can you capture any of that powder to roll it between your thumb and finger? It'll be slippery if its dead algae (my best guess), not so much if it's calcium precipitate. (possible, I suppose)

    People report mixed results with clarifiers. You have reported good luck so you may decide to try it again. Some people have cursed the day they put it in (waste of money) and others have awakened to crystal water the next morning. Clarifiers do little harm, so with your past success, I'd say give it a shot.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Nicks pool! and its kinda a mess.

    I'ma throw a wrench in my whole works here and say that I actually passed the OCLT last night. tested at 8p with a FC of 20, tested at 7a with a FC of 19.5. CC hasn't budged from 0.5. I wasn't able to brush and vacuum last night, and that's the only change between yesterday and the past week.

    I can brush at my walls anywhere and get the white dust. The walls are rough and were never slick like they had algae. The floor was, and I haven't gone all the way in, but I managed to get to the step that looks like the floor, and it's not slick anymore. I'll try to gather some of the crust from the bottom.
    My pool: 14,000gal in-ground. marcite, cartridge filter, no bells and whistles.

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    Re: Nicks pool! and its kinda a mess.

    I wasn't able to brush and vacuum last night, and that's the only change between yesterday and the past week
    Perhaps that dust is organic and has been consuming some of your FC when you stirred it up. That may be a stretch, however, it certainly doesn't sound like it from your description.

    Where has your pH been over the last few weeks? I can't remember.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Nicks pool! and its kinda a mess.

    Not sure at all.. I'll let it sit today and see if my FC consumption remains low, then I'll mix it up tomorrow with a good brush and vac and see if it skyrockets again. Pretty dramatic when you go from consuming 30 points on 4/3 to less than 1 yesterday.

    I haven't checked my pH in about as long as I've been shocking. I can certainly give it a look tonite. It had been steady around 7.4 before I started, but my history only goes back to mid-February.
    My pool: 14,000gal in-ground. marcite, cartridge filter, no bells and whistles.

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