Pool Equipment Location and Noise concerns

[harleysilo]

Just had to make a decision regarding the location of my pool equipment for my new pool install. I had two choices.

A) 80' run of electrical to location, but instead of outside fence like we thought, it would now end up inside of our fence and visible from pool/pool deck/patio. Could build small fence around it to hide it i guess.

B) 20' electrical run, Out of sight of Patio/house deck, still visible from pool/pool deck. Next to master bedroom wall, the wall our headboard is up against.

We're going with B. PB said it's the same situation at his house, his solution was to set his pool's timer to come on when his alarm clock goes off. I guess that answers my question, we are going to hear it, and it's gonna be loud enough to wake me up, maybe not my wife.

Now what options do i have to try and quite it down, if anything? It can be spaced off the side of my house (master bedroom wall) as many feet as reasonable, or that would make a difference. We will still be fencing it in to hide it, so there could be a short fence between it and the house to help block sound. Any other ideas, or is it a waste of effort?

Pool equipment will be installed on 2 "air conditioning pads", the kinda like concrete type vs. the plastic ones.

Red Line in this picture is where our new fence will go (previously we didn't think it would have to jog out at an angle, but the elevations needed us to get 5 more feet of yard space, original fence was 10' off of the property line.

 

[sammycornelius]

I am interested in this subject also as I am about to put mine near my living room.

 

[jblizzle]

Couple random thoughts:
What is the driver for the choice of location? Noise? Visual? Cost?

Location B would shorten the electrical run, but make multiple plumbing runs longer ... will that require a larger pipe? What size are in the work orders? Does the plumbing run affect the price?

If you go with B, one option would be a 2-speed / variable pump, should be significantly quieter while on low speed, but it may need to run on high speed for priming purposes (not sure about that though).

What about putting it over in the bottom right corner of your drawing. Would be far from everything and could hide it with bushes / fence? Noise may not bother house or while you are using the pool?

 

[linen]

If you go with B, one option would be a 2-speed / variable pump, should be significantly quieter while on low speed, but it may need to run on high speed for priming purposes (not sure about that though).

I agree with jblauert about the 2-speed...I have my pad right outside my living room window. When my pump is on low speed (I have a 2 speed), I can not hear it unless I stand right next to the window, and then just barely. However, when I run my solar it needs to be on high and then I can hear it throughout the room.

 

[maxepr1]

Harleysilo, I would put it at B. I have all my equipment far away from my pool and right next to the house next to a window, and it can barely be heard. Pool guy will try talk you out it and give you every excuse in the book, it's just because there lazy and want to make more of a profit on materials. PVC is not that expensive, and once it's done it's going allot more expensive.

 

[harleysilo]

Edit: sorry for the long winded response....

Prior to the actual excavation of the pool, we had planned to run the new fence in a straight line with our old fence. Once the PB was onsite with a transit and we were walking through the final layout of the pool, we decided to move the new fence back 5 feet. This was to allow us to have a slope that could be planted vs. building a retaining wall.

Once the majority of the excavation took place the PB layed out the batter boards for the pool so they could dig the pool hole. At this point in time we realized the location we previously thought would be good for the pool equipment was not ideal. It would be several feet below the pool water level and in a "hole". He said we then had 2 options, A and B.

So to answer the question, at this point in time, the primary concern of mine was not having to look at it i.e. not have to build a smaller fence on the inside of our new big fence to hide the equipment. I'd rather that new fence line by the pool be uniform and uninterrupted.

The electrical is on us, they include a basic package, but anything above and beyond that we pay for. Location A would certainly require us to pay the electrician more which we were fine with. Location B probably won't cost us any more in electrical since it's so close to our panel. The plumbing is all included in the price of the pool, and since it's about 30-40' from pool edge to B, i can't see it costing the PB a whole lot of money, cost of some PVC and some labor....

I don't know what size pipe will be used, nor will it be upsized for the longer run. I do know the planned pump is a 2HP Hayward superpump. I believe that is one speed only, but have not discussed it with PB.

During the sales process i was uninterested in all the equipment choices/options, basically i didn't have an opinion because i was uneducated about the differences/consequences. Since coming here i have learned a lot. We chose a D.E. filter and i'm happy with that choice now after reading all about it. That choice was made like this....saleslady suggests cartridge filter, i counter with how much do cartridges cost to replace, we talk about other options, she asks if i care about maintenance, i say i do not and will be doing everything and don't mind it, she says well then you'll like a D.E. and it filters great so we went with it. We never discussed the pool pump, and since we aren't adding anything extra like hot tub, slide, water features etc. i just figured we needed a plain jane pump. I'll ask their opinion on 2 speeds and savings.

As far as putting it in C (far away from pool and electrical box) i think we'd incur the electrical cost again, but we definitively wouldn't hear it.

I did not get the impression the PB was giving me the run-around on noise. I think he wanted to put it at A, but understood why i wanted to put it at B, and didn't tell me the story about his alarm clock pool pump until i asked him about the noise. So i got the impression that he was just being honest with me.

The one thing i do and don't like about the PB is the design it as you go attitude. There was never any offer of 3D drawings, or exact locations determined, more of okay so you want a rectangular pool over there in your yard, we'll figure out the details as we build it. On the one hand i'm totally fine with this, because i agree with what they keep saying, once you see that area of your yard flat, you'll want to change something, once you see a big 'ole hole you'll want to change something, once you see a pool with water and all the grading done you'll change where you want your patio/decking etc. We've changed several things already. On the other hand it would be nice to design a perfect finished product and then magically it appears as designed in my back yard. But my experience tells me that wouldn't happen.

oh and we couldn't move the pool any closer to the house, to get more space on the far side where A is, because of the septic tank field lines....

 

[linen]

I'll ask their opinion on 2 speeds and savings.

Definetly go with a least a 2 speed and don't oversize it. However, for the filter, usually the bigger the better, though I am no expert on DE (I prefer sand).

As far as putting it in C (far away from pool and electrical box) i think we'd incur the electrical cost again, but we definitively wouldn't hear it.

My guess is B might be okay, but when it is on high speed I think you will hear it on your deck (I looked at your pics in your other thread).

The one thing i do and don't like about the PB is the design it as you go attitude. There was never any offer of 3D drawings, or exact locations determined, more of okay so you want a rectangular pool over there in your yard, we'll figure out the details as we build it. On the one hand i'm totally fine with this, because i agree with what they keep saying, once you see that area of your yard flat, you'll want to change something, once you see a big 'ole hole you'll want to change something, once you see a pool with water and all the grading done you'll change where you want your patio/decking etc. We've changed several things already. On the other hand it would be nice to design a perfect finished product and then magically it appears as designed in my back yard. But my experience tells me that wouldn't happen.

I do think a good 3d model or artist rendering would have helped your project not have these unforseen "challenges" but you are too far down the path with this builder to change now...and anyways now you can see your problems directly ...oh well...

 

[jblizzle]

My limited knowledge on pool pumps (as I try to decided what to replace mine with) would indicate that 2 HP (is that up-rated or full rated ... it makes a difference) is overkill of the short plumbing runs with no added features. You may well get away with a 3/4 to 1 HP 2-speed.

 

[aeromorris05]

My limited knowledge on pool pumps (as I try to decided what to replace mine with) would indicate that 2 HP (is that up-rated or full rated ... it makes a difference) is overkill of the short plumbing runs with no added features. You may well get away with a 3/4 to 1 HP 2-speed.

I was kinda thinking the same thing about the size of the pump. 2hp seems like overkill and you'll feel it in your wallet for the life of the pump. As far as placement, if you decide to put it next to the house I definitely recommend you get a 2-speed pump and plan to run it in low-speed mode during sleep hours. I've personally heard some pool motors that were almost as loud as an hvac system. I imagine at some point it's like living next to a railroad track. (I.e. you stop noticing it).

My recommendation would be to mount it by the pool and build a small screen for it. Something like a 4ft high privacy fence surrounding it. In the event that you're entertaining, you could always walk over and drop the motor to low-speed or even temporarily shut it off. If you had waterfeatures or a spa that might be a problem but in your case I think it might be an option.

From a maintenance standpoint I was also thinking you could save some time and mabey a few dollars switching to an oversized cartridge setup. No backwashing or refilling and 1 or 2 cleanings per year. Of the 3 types of filters, sand and cartridges seem to be the most common. 9 times out of 10 if you mention DE to someone they look at you like you're crazy. Almost everyone knows how a cart filter works and many have a decent understanding of sand as well. Just my $.02.

 

[jblizzle]

I have a DE and given some recent reading on the forum, when it dies, I may go to a cartridge. If you get the right size, sounds like maintenance is EASY (like only cleaning 1-2 times per year). Disadvantage is the cost of replacement cartridges, but I am not sure how often that is required (in fact I have to replace all my DE grids, so I still had to replace parts eventually).

Regarding the DE filter, do you have a place to run pipe to backwash? It makes a white mess of everything and some communities do not allow you to backwash into the sewers or even out of your yard. And then you have to mess with the white powder to put back in the skimmer every time you backwash. The advantage is that it filters the best and we have a lot of dust in AZ. Another disadvantage I recently learned is the head loss of a DE is more than a cartridge which has the lowest head loss (meaning need less HP needed on your pump).

Sand does not have the problem of the DE getting everywhere, but you do have to still backwash. Filters not as well, unless you add some DE to the sand I guess.

 

[linen]

Sand does not have the problem of the DE getting everywhere, but you do have to still backwash. Filters not as well, unless you add some DE to the sand I guess.

Filter type preference is definitely a hot topic and there are many different perspectives. Many times I have heard that sand does not "filter as well" but I have not seen a practical real world water clarity difference in my neck of the woods between sand, cartridge, and DE.

For my situation, I would only consider sand or cartridge...IMO, DE filters seems unnecessary/not useful. :blah:

By the way, I laugh a little on the inside whenever I hear the marketing term "polished water"... :lol:

 

[harleysilo]

Backwashing a DE at my house will not be a problem, however I have read here that the best thing is to not backwash it, just change out the DE when it needs a backwashing. Seems okay if that is once or twice a year....thoughts?

 

[linen]

Backwashing a DE at my house will not be a problem, however I have read here that the best thing is to not backwash it, just change out the DE when it needs a backwashing. Seems okay if that is once or twice a year....thoughts?

I am not experienced in DE filter maintenance, hopefully someone else with more experience can chime in

 

[carlscan26]

Backwashing a DE at my house will not be a problem, however I have read here that the best thing is to not backwash it, just change out the DE when it needs a backwashing. Seems okay if that is once or twice a year....thoughts?

I have a DE filter and had to clean it once last year at the end of the summer. It's not that hard, pretty similar to a cartridge filter if you get a Pentair Quad DE which uses cartridge-like elements. Traditional DE filters can be a bit more work to disassemble and reassemble but again if you're not doing it often, I think the improved filtering is worth it.

Just my $.02 As linen said, this is a hot debate topic

 

[jblizzle]

I assume by (change out the DE) you mean either:
- take the top off and hose down the elements with the DE running out the drain hole at the bottom
OR
- take the top off, lift the ridiculously heavy grids out, and spray them down, possibly having to take the contraption apart to spray each grid fin and then fighting to put all 8 back together, then putting the assembly back into the filter housing tightening up the clamp and adding the DE back through the skimmer. (although the Quad DE filters design might be better)

You still end up with DE everywhere unless you try to pick up the chunks of wet DE and put them in the trash.

I think backwashing works OK the first few times, but not all of it leaves, so you do not add as much each time. Eventually, they get caked up and need to be broken down (maybe 1-2 per year?).

EDIT: The backwashing / cleaning is required when the pressure raises ~20% over the nominal pressure (old recommendation was 10 psi, but that restricts a lot of flow). How often you have to do it depends on the amount of dirt being collected

 

[linen]

My guess is B might be okay, but when it is on high speed I think you will hear it on your deck (I looked at your pics in your other thread).

I looked again at your drawing again (I was looking at the photos when I first commented) and having it around the corner from your deck should reduce how much you hear even on high speed...sorry about that might even be quieter than down by the fence (at the deck that is).

I think Carlscan responded to your other post suggesting the equipment down by the fence might be more efficient due to the shorter distance...I do like having my equipment close to the pool for maintenance reasons. If you have to run the electrical anyways, why not move the equipment further from the house/deck and put it in the southeast (?) corner of the yard where you are sliding the pool towards?

 

[swimcmp]

We use alot of Pentair Quad DE 100 filters, they are relatively painless for cleaning. About like cleaning a cartridge only the grids aren't as heavy. Have a customer with a 24' x 50' vinyl with three depths of water, on a farm that went all of last season without cleaning and at closing had only just reached a ten pound rise with a intelliflo vf pump and an auto cover. So overall we are pretty happy with them. Everyone has different ideas. I would recommend some sort of variable speed be it 2 speed or true variable. Also would push for a 3/4 to 1 hp max size.

 

[harleysilo]

The DE filter in the quote is a Hayward, 48 sq ft? I need to get model numbers from the PB for clarity. Yea sorry better pics are in my other thread I just thought this topic deserved it's own thread. As far as putting the equipment in the northeast corner of the lot I could, but not sure if it is worth the expense, plus added distance from pool for plumbing.?.?

I was wondering which picture was looked at but I agree the house should block noise from deck/patio away from pool.

I'm still thinking I can build a fence that should direct the noise upward VS outward to help with noise by pool.

Will ask PB about pump size and 2 speed/variable speed, I get the impression he just goes with what works and is less concerned with cost over time.

 

[linen]

As far as putting the equipment in the northeast corner of the lot I could, but not sure if it is worth the expense, plus added distance from pool for plumbing.?.?

If the northeast corner is in the upper right of you drawing that was where I was thinking. Is the pool sliding closer or further from the right side of the drawing (I was assuming closer to the the right side).

 

[harleysilo]

As far as putting the equipment in the northeast corner of the lot I could, but not sure if it is worth the expense, plus added distance from pool for plumbing.?.?

If the northeast corner is in the upper right of you drawing that was where I was thinking. Is the pool sliding closer or further from the right side of the drawing (I was assuming closer to the the right side).

Sorry I should post a "final" drawing. Pool is sliding to left or south or closer to house deck. So the north east corner would be bottom left of drawing (assuming the picture is oriented the same way on your computer, I rotated it after posting and sometimes the change takes awhile to happen, can you read the words without tilting your head?). If so we're on the same page.