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Thread: did i get a wrong motor shaft seal for my super pump?

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    Diver's Avatar
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    did i get a wrong motor shaft seal for my super pump?

    I have an old SP2607X1 superpump with SP-1607-Z1-M motor. I’m replacing the motor with a new 2 speed STS1072R motor. I got the old motor off the pump and removed the wet end. I started to put everything together just to find out that the new seal doesn’t fit the impeller!

    I got “HAYWARD PUMP SEAL SPX1600Z2 REPLACEMENT SHAFT SEAL” from here:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI...0#ht_899wt_777

    The white/ceramic part fits fine, but the impeller side doesn’t! Thinking maybe I got the orientation wrong, I tried to flip it and still no dice.

    Looking at the old and new one they seem quite different. The first pic on the bottom is the seals and the impeller (new seal is on the left)

    I believe the top part of the seals on the picture are the ones facing the ceramic counterpart. You can see there are some ridges on the impeller and matching notches in the seal.

    Second pic is one with the other side of the seal

    The seals are quite different. The old one has a wider opening and the new one has a metal ring around it. The old one let the impeller shaft go thru the plastic body of it and then the ridges match the notches further down.

    I looked around and spx1600Z2 seems to be the one for superpump. The other name is PS-201, which is what I have on the box. So what gives? I’m confused..

    eidt: corrected the pump/motor model
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    26K In-ground Vinyl Pool | Hayward DE4820/SP0710XR50 filter | 1.125 HP Dual Speed Hayward Super Pump | Aquasol Solar

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: did i get a wrong motor shaft seal for my super pump?

    What is the number off of the impeller. Is it possible that it was replaced at one time?
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: did i get a wrong motor shaft seal for my super pump?

    Mark,

    thanks for your response. I'll have to take a look at the impeller at home tonight. I have bunch of pics here, but they only show one side of the impeller and there are no visible numbers on the pics. it's possible that it was replaced, i inherited the pool when we bought the house.

    Mark, you were kind enough to estimate my turnover times and flow rate for this pump and my pool configuration int this topic:

    http://www.troublefreepool.com/old-p...me-t31627.html

    that topic has all the pump info and judging by the numbers you gave, does it look like impeller might've been replaced? i don't know if this info can be derived from the numbers provided there, but i thought i'd mention it to you.

    i looked at ps-200 and ps-201 seal assemblies. they look the same on many pics online, but on some ps-200 looks a bit like what i have for my old seal. i confused some motor numbers in my prev post, but it looks like all super pumps take the same seal assembly: SPX1600Z

    thank you for your help!
    26K In-ground Vinyl Pool | Hayward DE4820/SP0710XR50 filter | 1.125 HP Dual Speed Hayward Super Pump | Aquasol Solar

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    Re: did i get a wrong motor shaft seal for my super pump?

    That is the correct seal set number but who knows, Hayward may have changed the design at some point Worst case, you may need to purchase a new impeller if that one will not work with the seal. A call to Hayward might clear things up for you.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: did i get a wrong motor shaft seal for my super pump?

    Mark, I will check on existing impeller first before proceeding.

    But I was wondering, would you elaborate a bit on different impeller sizes? It's my understanding that it's possible to upsize or downsize the impeller per given motor/pump. Are there any advantages for that? Will new impeller require a new diffuser as well?

    On the ps-201 instruction sheet it was mentioned that motor shaft and seals should be lubricated with water based lubricant. Nowhere online I saw that recommendation. Do you have any opinion on that?
    26K In-ground Vinyl Pool | Hayward DE4820/SP0710XR50 filter | 1.125 HP Dual Speed Hayward Super Pump | Aquasol Solar

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    Re: did i get a wrong motor shaft seal for my super pump?

    Yes! You can definitely downsize an impeller. In most cases, up to two sizes. After that pump efficiency starts to drop fairly quickly but theoretically there really is no limit to how small an impeller you can use. It only affects the power factor which has an impact on pump efficiency. Going with the next size down for your pump would improve the energy factor by about 10%. Plus it uses the same diffusor so you wouldn't need to change that.

    On the ps-201 instruction sheet it was mentioned that motor shaft and seals should be lubricated with water based lubricant. Nowhere online I saw that recommendation. Do you have any opinion on that?
    Normally, you shouldn't lube the ceramic seal because the water will do that. But perhaps they mean the other seals/o-rings. Lubing the shaft helps the rubber seal to the shaft so that is a good idea.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: did i get a wrong motor shaft seal for my super pump?

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985
    Going with the next size down for your pump would improve the energy factor by about 10%.
    i looked it up energy factor in your cool "Hydrolics 101" topic and it seems that it's basically pump efficiency. so does 10% increase mean 10% more water pumped per given watt-hr, or is it 10% less watt-hr per given volume of water pump?

    in other words, if standard size impeller pumps one turn over in 10 hours, would a size smaller impeller do the same on 9 hours with the same amount of power consumed or will it consume 10% less power for the same 10 hours? or is it something else?

    eidt: i wonder if downside of smaller impeller would be less power in priming the pump.. once primed it should probably be ok starting even on slower speed, right?
    26K In-ground Vinyl Pool | Hayward DE4820/SP0710XR50 filter | 1.125 HP Dual Speed Hayward Super Pump | Aquasol Solar

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    Re: did i get a wrong motor shaft seal for my super pump?

    You have the correct shaft seal, the metal ring on the shaft is part of the OLD SEAL that needs to be removed for the new one to sit correctly. Make sure you get the o-ring under it off also. Just look at the center of the new seal and you will see what I mean.

    I see this thing everyday! LOL

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    Re: did i get a wrong motor shaft seal for my super pump?

    Quote Originally Posted by DBfan187
    You have the correct shaft seal, the metal ring on the shaft is part of the OLD SEAL that needs to be removed for the new one to sit correctly. Make sure you get the o-ring under it off also.

    I see this thing everyday! LOL
    man! i typed a big a** reply saying how i figured out the mystery with pictures and such and then i checked and you beat me to it! that's exactly what it was!!

    i looked up the impeller online by the part number that my wife looked up for me on the old one (sp2607-c) and i noticed it looked different. from there i arrived at the same conclusion
    26K In-ground Vinyl Pool | Hayward DE4820/SP0710XR50 filter | 1.125 HP Dual Speed Hayward Super Pump | Aquasol Solar

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    Re: did i get a wrong motor shaft seal for my super pump?

    Glad you figured out the issue. I didn't even notice that the ceramic ring was still on the impeller.

    Anyway, you probably won't be replacing your impeller but I felt compelled to answer your questions anyway for future reference.

    The energy factor is defined as gallons pump per watt-hr consumed. So a 10% more energy factor means less pumping costs. It could be due to higher flow rate or lower wattage but usually it is a combination of both.

    And yes, a smaller impeller means a longer priming time so that could be an issue although they do sell the smaller pump so it is designed to prime properly.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: did i get a wrong motor shaft seal for my super pump?

    Mark, thank you for following up on those questions of mine, it's useful information to have. Thanks again!
    26K In-ground Vinyl Pool | Hayward DE4820/SP0710XR50 filter | 1.125 HP Dual Speed Hayward Super Pump | Aquasol Solar

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    Re: did i get a wrong motor shaft seal for my super pump?

    ok, the situation with the seal is resolved, wet end is all assembled and wiring is done. however, looks at the exploded diagram of the superpump, i noticed something that made me think hmm...

    here is the diagram (pic1) and here is my impeller (pic2). the diagram implies that there is a gasket (12) that goes over the impeller (10). i don't recall seeing any gasket over the impeller and looking at the impeller i can't see where the gasket would possibly go. there openings on the impeller where i assume water is coming out, so it can't go there. the whole end of the impeller where the gasket is show on the diagram spins freely inside of the pump housing so even if there was a place for the gasket it would be on a part that moves against the other part. am i reading this wrong??
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    Re: did i get a wrong motor shaft seal for my super pump?

    I beleive that gasket is for the housing plate labeled 13.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: did i get a wrong motor shaft seal for my super pump?

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985
    I beleive that gasket is for the housing plate labeled 13.
    that's quite the difference! i do have that and it makes sense to have it there. thanks!!
    26K In-ground Vinyl Pool | Hayward DE4820/SP0710XR50 filter | 1.125 HP Dual Speed Hayward Super Pump | Aquasol Solar

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    Re: did i get a wrong motor shaft seal for my super pump?

    Mark,

    I was trying to see where the wet/dry line is in the wet part of the pump. Looking at the pump and the diagram it looks like the diffuser is sealed against pump housing and the water enters the diffuser from the pump strainer body. It then travels to impeller, is spun around and exits the impeller into the space between seal plate (13) and pump housing (7) and then goes up the exit pipe.

    What seems a bit odd to me is that seal plate has a slit on the bottom which purpose seems to drain the water since it’s somewhat open. Seal plates seals the rest of the dry end by seal assembly. So it seems that space between seal plate (13) and motor mounting plate (14) should be dry. And if any water does enter it, it should drain thru the bottom slit on the motor mounting plate (14). And there is a sling on the motor shaft (20) as the last protection for the motor from water.

    Did I get it right? I guess the only part that is somewhat confusing is what I think is a drain on the bottom of the seal plate.
    26K In-ground Vinyl Pool | Hayward DE4820/SP0710XR50 filter | 1.125 HP Dual Speed Hayward Super Pump | Aquasol Solar

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    Re: did i get a wrong motor shaft seal for my super pump?

    That is correct.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: did i get a wrong motor shaft seal for my super pump?

    Quote Originally Posted by mas985
    That is correct.
    But then it seems that when pump is running there will be high pressure between seal plate and pump housing and the same pressure that pushes the water up the pipe, will push the water down the drain slit? i don't have the pump in front of me, but i think i remember that drain to be fairly open..
    26K In-ground Vinyl Pool | Hayward DE4820/SP0710XR50 filter | 1.125 HP Dual Speed Hayward Super Pump | Aquasol Solar

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    Re: did i get a wrong motor shaft seal for my super pump?

    The slit would not be exposed to the water and/or pressure normally. That would be sealed of by the seal plate #13. The slit is to drain the water that may get by the seal and seal plate.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: did i get a wrong motor shaft seal for my super pump?

    The slit i was concerned about was in the seal plate #13. I think you're talking about the one in motor mount #14. if you look at the picture, #13 on the bottom has a line, that's the drain i was curious about and this one doesn't seem to be sealed.

    but i guess it's ok if it works properly and if that's the way it was designed. i don't want to bother you much with the minor stuff you're good source of info in pumping department and i want to be able to ask you questions in the future !
    26K In-ground Vinyl Pool | Hayward DE4820/SP0710XR50 filter | 1.125 HP Dual Speed Hayward Super Pump | Aquasol Solar

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    Re: did i get a wrong motor shaft seal for my super pump?

    i just realized that the entire pump facing surface of the seal plate #13 is sealed against the pump body, so the drain is not exposed! so it's all good
    26K In-ground Vinyl Pool | Hayward DE4820/SP0710XR50 filter | 1.125 HP Dual Speed Hayward Super Pump | Aquasol Solar

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