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Thread: Still Struggling With Balancing Water

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    Still Struggling With Balancing Water

    Hello,

    It seems like I just can't keep up with the acid demand our new pool seems to require. We've had water in it now for a couple of months, and it seems to LOVE the muriatic acid. I think I've been adding about 36 ounces every week, and the demand doesn't seem to slow up.

    Here are my test results as of an hour ago:

    FC = 3.5
    CC = 0.5
    TC = 4.0
    TA = 130
    CYA = 65
    pH = 8.2+

    I couldn't measure the CH, as the test tube turned blue after adding 5 drops of the R-011L reagent.

    I know the pH is way high, and have added 40oz. of muriatic acid to bring it back down. I will test the pH tomorrow, weather permitting.

    I know new plaster pools demand muriatic acid to keep the pH in line, but this seems excessive to me.

    I normally leave the bubblers in our tanning ledge on, and am now wondering if that's a mistake?

    Any advice would be welcomed, as I'm an admitted noob when it comes to pools.
    16 x 31, Approx. 12,000 Gal Freeform IG pool; Flagstone coping; Quartzscapes Super Blue plaster finish; Tanning ledge w/2 bubblers; 1 HP Pentair Whisperflo pump, Pentair sand filter; (2) Pentair Intellibrite LEDs w/controller; Easytouch8 w/IC-40 SWG; Salt finish concrete decking.

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    Re: Still Struggling With Balancing Water

    I see you have 12,000 gal pool and swg.

    well your TA is too high. Bring it down to 80 and pH will behave.

    Sounds like you have no CH or hardly any. You need to increase that level. 300-350 for plaster is good.

    your FC must be too low as you have CC. super chlorinate for 24hrs to get rid of CC.

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    Re: Still Struggling With Balancing Water

    I should have mentioned our PB hasn't added any salt to the pool yet. Up until now I've been using the Trichlor tabs in a floater he provided. Reading here, however, tells me this isn't the smartest thing to do, so I took the floater out a couple of days ago.

    I just added about 87oz. of Clorox to bring the FC level back up, and will take more readings tomorrow.
    16 x 31, Approx. 12,000 Gal Freeform IG pool; Flagstone coping; Quartzscapes Super Blue plaster finish; Tanning ledge w/2 bubblers; 1 HP Pentair Whisperflo pump, Pentair sand filter; (2) Pentair Intellibrite LEDs w/controller; Easytouch8 w/IC-40 SWG; Salt finish concrete decking.

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    Re: Still Struggling With Balancing Water

    floater? no wonder you have some cc.

    add salt and get that swg running.

    you'll need more than 87oz of clorox to oxidize that cc. I hope its unscented?

    I can't remember how to oxidize cc without swg. been years actually never have to with swg. maybe someone like chem will chime in...

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    Re: Still Struggling With Balancing Water

    Pool calculator.com says to add 87oz. of bleach to raise the FC from 3.5 to 7. Am I not using the calculator correctly? And yes...I used the unscented Clorox.

    Regarding the salt, I need to check with my PB to find out when he plans on adding it, as that's on him.
    16 x 31, Approx. 12,000 Gal Freeform IG pool; Flagstone coping; Quartzscapes Super Blue plaster finish; Tanning ledge w/2 bubblers; 1 HP Pentair Whisperflo pump, Pentair sand filter; (2) Pentair Intellibrite LEDs w/controller; Easytouch8 w/IC-40 SWG; Salt finish concrete decking.

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    Re: Still Struggling With Balancing Water

    Where is your pH now?
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Still Struggling With Balancing Water

    maybe that will oxidize the 0.5 of cc but to shock they go higher like to 20.

    try 87oz if that gets rid of the CC then ok but if now you will probably need to shock.

    you need salt.

    if I was at your pool I would add 24oz of stabilized chlorine granulars. you could use the cya for the swg and it would shock the pool. but then some may disagree.....but it works for me.

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    Re: Still Struggling With Balancing Water

    Adding the acid earlier has brought the pH down to 7.2.

    Getting too dark outside to do much more, I'm afraid.

    Thanks!
    16 x 31, Approx. 12,000 Gal Freeform IG pool; Flagstone coping; Quartzscapes Super Blue plaster finish; Tanning ledge w/2 bubblers; 1 HP Pentair Whisperflo pump, Pentair sand filter; (2) Pentair Intellibrite LEDs w/controller; Easytouch8 w/IC-40 SWG; Salt finish concrete decking.

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    Re: Still Struggling With Balancing Water

    Quote Originally Posted by mhosborn
    Adding the acid earlier has brought the pH down to 7.2.

    Getting too dark outside to do much more, I'm afraid.

    Thanks!
    your wasting money and time. let the pH go up. add 24 oz of stabilized chlorine granulars. That will lower pH and oxidize the cc plus raise fc up around 8 points. this will keep the pool until your PB adds the salt and the swg gets running.

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    Re: Still Struggling With Balancing Water

    Aquatica, I will look for the stabilized chlorine granulars tomorrow at Leslie's, as the rest of our area pool supply stores are closed on Sundays.
    16 x 31, Approx. 12,000 Gal Freeform IG pool; Flagstone coping; Quartzscapes Super Blue plaster finish; Tanning ledge w/2 bubblers; 1 HP Pentair Whisperflo pump, Pentair sand filter; (2) Pentair Intellibrite LEDs w/controller; Easytouch8 w/IC-40 SWG; Salt finish concrete decking.

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    Re: Still Struggling With Balancing Water

    cool. stick around TFP its an awesome place. you will be less frustrated every time you visit. pool care gets easier here.

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    Re: Still Struggling With Balancing Water

    your wasting money and time. let the pH go up. add 24 oz of stabilized chlorine granulars. That will lower pH and oxidize the cc plus raise fc up around 8 points. this will keep the pool until your PB adds the salt and the swg gets running.
    Controlling your pH while new plaster cures is not a waste of time or money. It is important to keep your pH under 8.0 all the time. Please add as much muriatic as often as it takes to do that.

    A cc test result of .5ppm is negligible. There is no need to address it.

    Please do not add any more CYA to your pool by using stabilized chlorine of any type. You may wish to tweak a little later but 65ppm CYA is enough for now.

    Your plaster should be releasing calcium into your pool so I am puzzled by that test. Let's address it later....there is no emergency.

    How does your water look?
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Still Struggling With Balancing Water

    Dave its an swg..he can use the extra cya. especially as summer is approaching. 24oz of stabilized chlorine will reduce ph and get rid of that cc.

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    Re: Still Struggling With Balancing Water

    Honestly, at this point I'm treating the pool as if it doesn't have a SWG, since I've no idea when they plan on adding the salt, and, from what I've read, it's best to have the water nicely balanced beforehand anyway.

    If tomorrow's weather permits, I will run another full set of tests.
    16 x 31, Approx. 12,000 Gal Freeform IG pool; Flagstone coping; Quartzscapes Super Blue plaster finish; Tanning ledge w/2 bubblers; 1 HP Pentair Whisperflo pump, Pentair sand filter; (2) Pentair Intellibrite LEDs w/controller; Easytouch8 w/IC-40 SWG; Salt finish concrete decking.

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    Re: Still Struggling With Balancing Water

    1. There is no salt in the pool nor a working SWG yet. That's up to the builder

    2. 24 oz of dichlor (I assume you mean dichlor when you say "chlorine granulars") will raise the FC up to about 11-12ppm.....there is no need for it to be that high.

    Secondly, it will provide roughly an additional 8ppm of CYA and I see no rush to get CYA above 65 for a newbie who may or may not have his testing methods down pat.

    Last, it lowers pH by about .3....not enough if OP was trying to move it off 8.2+ nor does it make sense to lower pH with dichlor when muriatic will suffice.

    3. A cc test result of .5ppm is indicative of a VERY clean pool and, once again, it simply does not need to be addressed. Virtually every pool on this forum has cc's of 0 - .5ppm with crystal clear, sanitary water.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Still Struggling With Balancing Water

    you make a good point Dave. I guess if testing might not be down then ignore my suggestions. best take it slow. I'm use to fixing pools overnight so use some extreme measures which work but with proper testings and measuring. what Dave says makes sense for you to do.

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    Re: Still Struggling With Balancing Water

    The water seems very clear to me (despite my Dolphin robot cleaner's bag falling out inside the pool earlier!).

    Am I right, then, in assuming the amount of muriatic acid I've been adding isn't unusual?

    I'm probably going to be getting an EasyTouch system for more convenient control of the pool lights and bubblers, and will be swapping out the Autopilot for the Intellichlor as a result. (Wasn't in the budget during the construction, but am able to do it now). Therefore, I'm not in a hurry for my PB to add the salt, anyway.

    Will nix the stabilized chlorine granulars for now, then.

    Thanks again for all the great advice thus far!
    16 x 31, Approx. 12,000 Gal Freeform IG pool; Flagstone coping; Quartzscapes Super Blue plaster finish; Tanning ledge w/2 bubblers; 1 HP Pentair Whisperflo pump, Pentair sand filter; (2) Pentair Intellibrite LEDs w/controller; Easytouch8 w/IC-40 SWG; Salt finish concrete decking.

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    Re: Still Struggling With Balancing Water

    Am I right, then, in assuming the amount of muriatic acid I've been adding isn't unusual?
    No. acid consumption varies but what is important is that you control pH (keep it in the 7's) regardless of the amount of acid it takes.

    I would use Clorox and keep the FC around 5ppm until you make the switch to an SWG.

    Keep your FC and pH stabilized for the next day or so and then do the CH test again and post the results. Review your procedures to make sure you didn't overlook something.
    Dave S.
    42k vinyl and concrete pool, 1.5hp pump, 140gpm filter
    TFTestkits , PoolMath , Pool School

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    Re: Still Struggling With Balancing Water

    Will do, Dave. Thanks!
    16 x 31, Approx. 12,000 Gal Freeform IG pool; Flagstone coping; Quartzscapes Super Blue plaster finish; Tanning ledge w/2 bubblers; 1 HP Pentair Whisperflo pump, Pentair sand filter; (2) Pentair Intellibrite LEDs w/controller; Easytouch8 w/IC-40 SWG; Salt finish concrete decking.

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    Re: Still Struggling With Balancing Water

    OK....although it's raining outside, I ran another series of tests just now, bringing the samples inside for analysis.

    Here are my results:

    pH = 7.5
    FC = 6.5
    CC = 0.5
    TC = 7.0
    TA = 120
    CH = 400
    CYA = 50
    Water Temp = 54°
    Weather = Raining

    Observations:

    1. Obviously, I did something wrong yesterday when trying to measure the CH. (And now I see it's too high).
    2. The pH climbed from 7.2 to 7.5 in less than 24 hours.
    3. Some of the differences from yesterday till now may be due to reading everything inside today, and reading most results outdoors yesterday.

    I may check the pH this evening and see if it's still rising. If so, I will add more acid to bring it back down to the 7.2 to 7.5 range.
    16 x 31, Approx. 12,000 Gal Freeform IG pool; Flagstone coping; Quartzscapes Super Blue plaster finish; Tanning ledge w/2 bubblers; 1 HP Pentair Whisperflo pump, Pentair sand filter; (2) Pentair Intellibrite LEDs w/controller; Easytouch8 w/IC-40 SWG; Salt finish concrete decking.

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