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Thread: One fool's (+ others) method for doing a round AGP deep end

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    linen's Avatar
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    One fool's (+ others) method for doing a round AGP deep end

    This is split off from this thread: http://www.troublefreepool.com/foam-...6.html#p333379

    linen EDIT: Since others, especially supertune and jrh1010 have added greatly to the thread...it has been given a new title...they are "(+ others)"...for posterity the old title was: "One fool's method for doing a round AGP deep end..."

    Quote Originally Posted by supertune
    Linen,
    If you have any pic's of how you did your deepened bottom would be great to look at!
    I'm digging out now for my Princeton 21' using a 20 gauge 72" expandable overlap liner and trying to find out how to do the floor as I want to max out as big and deep as I can possibly go! I'm thinking I will need to bury it some so I can go deep as possible at the walls.
    Have you seen anyone use a bigger pad like a 24' for a 21' to use for deep center? Will pads wrinkle when used with deepened center?

    Thanks for any insight you might have!

    Chuck
    Chuck,

    First off, I am not sure if I have any good pictures before I filled, I tend to be bad at that when I a focused on getting something done. When it thaws this spring I could snap a couple, but that might be too late for you. Instead I will describe what I did.

    A caveat: This is my first AGP install, and was done without outside consultation other than reading a lot on the web. I did some things that may not be common practice, but the pool has survived for 1.5 years now, and has worked well.

    My pool has 48' sides which I love (compared to higher pools) since it allows me to easily work over the edge of the pool and it is a nice depth for the smaller ones. My deep end is about 6' at it's deepest.

    Basically my pool is split into thirds...1/3 is shallow, 1/3 slopes to the deep end, and 1/3 is deep. Around the perimeter of the deep end and the slope I left 2 ft not dug, which gives the walls ample support and makes for a great walking ledge. It is a steep slope from the walking ledge down to the deep section (~45 degree), but the slope from the shallow to deep end is quite gradual. I used 1 1/2 inch pink foam insulation (extruded Polystyrene) on the shallow end and walking ledge. Under the foam and on the slope and deep end I put heavy landscaping fabric. I considered a pad, but new it would not stretch as deep as I wanted to go (and I am cheap). So basically there is just thick landscaping fabric between the dirt and the liner in the deep end and slope areas. So far it has worked great and I think the key to it was I worked hard at smoothing and tamping that dirt before I put the fabric down. I sculpted/filleted the edges of the foam where it met with the fabric just before fabric heads down the slope...that turned out better than I had imagined...very smooth transition.

    Regarding the pink foam and my walls...I used 6"X12"X1.5" patio blocks that I made a circle with so that my wall track was supported 1.5" off the ground the entire circumference of the pool. The pink insulation foam was the same thickness as the blocks so instead of loosing the 1.5 inch depth (or more) due to using foam and or sand inside the walls, my expandable liner stretched to 48 inches in my shallow areas. I use foam cove which extended over my patio block to pink insulation butt joint.

    I know this was brief, but maybe if needed this can be a back and forth conversation. Chuck, what questions do you have?

    linen (the fool)
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: One fool's method for doing a round AGP deep end...

    Thanks FOOL for taking the time and explaining how you did yours, it will be very helpful!
    I'll come back here and ask as I go!

    Chuck (cheap too)
    Swim n Play 21' round, expandable 72" liner, 6FT deep center, buried 14", 12,750 Gallons
    Waterway 1HP-2 speed with 22" Sand filter
    TF-100 test kit
    Thanks to TFP my pool is perfect all the time :party:
    I now suffer from Sparklypoolitis! :whoot:
    I am a Platinum contributor because I want everyone who comes here to Trouble Free Pool to have the same success that I enjoy with my pool and family.

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    Re: One fool's method for doing a round AGP deep end...

    hey linen, I am working on some drawings now to do my deep end like yours, my first question, how steep of a slope can you make from the 2' (stabilization edge I will call it) that protects the place where the uprights fit down to the deep end. Of course I would like the deep end to big as big as possible and dont want to take it up with a bunch of slope. The pool is a 28' doughboy, 48". The deep end is going to be 72". So it is a 2' drop. Once you got to the bottom of the deep end, did you make it a hopper (rounded bottom) or is it flat?? Just some questions. I am getting excited and am almost about to get in the ground, but I need to get my cousin (heavy equipment operator) some drawings of what I want to do. Thanks for your time.
    33' Seaspray Aegean II - 6' Deep End
    28K Gallons
    2" Hard Pipe Plumbing
    Hayward S244T 300 lb. Sand Filter
    1 HP - 2 speed - Powerflo Matrix Pump

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    Re: One fool's method for doing a round AGP deep end...

    on doughboy's website and installation instructions they list the specs for the optional deep end. It shows a chart for each particular pool size with all the needed dimensions.
    When the only tool you have is a hammer everything starts looking like a nail.
    Doughboy 16x24 "Aboveground Inground" in progress...

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    Re: One fool's method for doing a round AGP deep end...

    jrh1010,

    Sorry it took so long for me to respond. I finally got a chance to sketch out a drawing of my pool bottom.

    [attachment=0:3eteb3h8]PoolBottom2.jpg[/attachment:3eteb3h8]

    Quote Originally Posted by jrh1010
    hey linen, I am working on some drawings now to do my deep end like yours, my first question, how steep of a slope can you make from the 2' (stabilization edge I will call it) that protects the place where the uprights fit down to the deep end.
    Between the stabilization edge and the deep end my slope is a steep ~45 degrees.

    Quote Originally Posted by jrh1010
    Once you got to the bottom of the deep end, did you make it a hopper (rounded bottom) or is it flat??
    Although my intent was to make it flat, it really has some fairly large radiuses at the transitions. My drawing shows the width of my deep end at 4', but I bet the flat portion is really more 2.5-3.0 feet.

    If you don't have it already, here is the download location for the Doughboy round pool installation guide (I think this is the one gtojohn mentioned) with a section in which details there recommendations for deep end dimensions:http://www.doughboy-pools.com/Servic...OUGHBOYRND.pdf. They do a nice job of laying a plan out and have their recommended dimensions for 28' pool in the table they include in section 2. This was one of the resources I used for my planning.

    Quote Originally Posted by jrh1010
    Just some questions. I am getting excited and am almost about to get in the ground, but I need to get my cousin (heavy equipment operator) some drawings of what I want to do. Thanks for your time.
    Just ask any questions that you have as you think of them...we can make this thread a kind of question and answer. I will try to be more timely than I was this time When I open my pool, I will try to take a pic that shows my deep end.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: One fool's method for doing a round AGP deep end...

    Linen, two questions:

    The poly bottom, how did you get it to stay on the ledge when you were lowering the liner in the pool? It seems that as the liner pulled down into the pool, the poly would want to come out of alignment on the edge. I guess when you tape it, it keeps everything together?
    33' Seaspray Aegean II - 6' Deep End
    28K Gallons
    2" Hard Pipe Plumbing
    Hayward S244T 300 lb. Sand Filter
    1 HP - 2 speed - Powerflo Matrix Pump

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    Re: One fool's method for doing a round AGP deep end...

    Quote Originally Posted by jrh1010
    The poly bottom, how did you get it to stay on the ledge when you were lowering the liner in the pool? It seems that as the liner pulled down into the pool, the poly would want to come out of alignment on the edge. I guess when you tape it, it keeps everything together?
    Everything on my drawing that is labeled as 4 foot depth has the polystyrene on it. I fitted my poly so it went right to the edge of my patio blocks. Between that, and it being taped, there was no movement. Two notes:

    1. I did not put the insulation in my deep end, nor the slopes to my deep end, only on the 4 foot depth area. I tapered insulation edges that were along the slope towards the deep end hopper.

    2. I think I mentioned this before, but here is more detail...my patio blocks were continuous all the way around my pool and not just located at the vertical supports. The last patio block I had cut to finish the circle. My landscape fabric went below the patio blocks (and the whole pool bottom for that matter). Once my blocks were in place, I was able to put my polystyrene down before the rails and walls since it sat next to the patio blocks. Not having the walls up really helped me get my insulation sheets down on the ground to mark them so I could fit them tightly. I used a drywall keyhole saw for much of my polystyrene trimming.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: One fool's method for doing a round AGP deep end...

    Linen, what was the reason for puttign the pavers all the way around the pool wall? Also, I am assuming you used the pool cove on the stabilization lip at the base of the wall on the deepend? Last but not least, the pool I bought came with a pool cove, unfortunately, most of the sticky stuff has come off. Is the sticky stuff really necessary or can I just use liquid nail or duct tape (double sided) to stick the pool cove to the pool wall. I ordered my top rails today. Once I get the pool up, I will be able to measure the diameter of the pool from the inside and order the liner. ****cue dancing guy****
    33' Seaspray Aegean II - 6' Deep End
    28K Gallons
    2" Hard Pipe Plumbing
    Hayward S244T 300 lb. Sand Filter
    1 HP - 2 speed - Powerflo Matrix Pump

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    Re: One fool's method for doing a round AGP deep end...

    Quote Originally Posted by jrh1010
    Linen, what was the reason for puttign the pavers all the way around the pool wall?
    I decided to level my ground and put the blocks on top of the ground and I gained 1.5 inches in sidewall depth (again, I was using an overlap (and expandable) liner so it could handle the increased depth). I felt it was easier to keep them level then to sink them for the vertical supports. My polystyrene insulation board is also sitting on the ground (in the areas marked 4 ft in the drawing I included in a previous post) and butts right up next to the paver ring, both are 1.5 inch thick.
    Quote Originally Posted by jrh1010
    Also, I am assuming you used the pool cove on the stabilization lip at the base of the wall on the deepend?
    Yes I used foam pool cove around the whole pool. This protected the liner from the pavers as the cove stuck out horizontally far enough that it also covered the joint between the pavers and the insulation board.
    Quote Originally Posted by jrh1010
    Last but not least, the pool I bought came with a pool cove, unfortunately, most of the sticky stuff has come off. Is the sticky stuff really necessary or can I just use liquid nail or duct tape (double sided) to stick the pool cove to the pool wall.
    My cove fits tightly on to the edge of my bottom rails and is held there without adhesive. I would think you could use double sticky foam tap or something similar to hold it in place until the liner/water does. I would probably use something that that allows the foam coves to be removed later without destroying them.
    Quote Originally Posted by jrh1010
    Once I get the pool up, I will be able to measure the diameter of the pool from the inside and order the liner. ****cue dancing guy****
    Just a note of caution, you do not want to leave an agp standing empty very long, any decent wind can destroy it quite easily. I put my walls up and was filling the same day. Just for others reading this, I recommend buyers of used pools measure the diameter before the pool gets taken down. In your case with the partial burial, you might be able to get by with it standing empty, but you do not want to cave in your walls either.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: One fool's method for doing a round AGP deep end...

    Quote Originally Posted by linen
    Quote Originally Posted by jrh1010
    Linen, what was the reason for puttign the pavers all the way around the pool wall?
    I decided to level my ground and put the blocks on top of the ground and I gained 1.5 inches in sidewall depth (again, I was using an overlap (and expandable) liner so it could handle the increased depth). I felt it was easier to keep them level then to sink them for the vertical supports.
    Question on the liner linen, your pool walls are 48" deep. Did you buy a 48" expandable to 72" liner. And if so, how did the seam fall on the base of your wall? I am assuming it fell right on the pool cove because the bottom of the pool was raised up as well with the poly foam.

    I can envision all this in my head. I hope it goes on the ground as well as it is going in my head.
    33' Seaspray Aegean II - 6' Deep End
    28K Gallons
    2" Hard Pipe Plumbing
    Hayward S244T 300 lb. Sand Filter
    1 HP - 2 speed - Powerflo Matrix Pump

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    Re: One fool's method for doing a round AGP deep end...

    Oh, and I just found a 33' pool on craigslist for $100. Going to pick it up tomorrow. Thankfully I havent ordered the liner for the 28' yet. I am going to see which one fits the yard better and sell the other one.
    33' Seaspray Aegean II - 6' Deep End
    28K Gallons
    2" Hard Pipe Plumbing
    Hayward S244T 300 lb. Sand Filter
    1 HP - 2 speed - Powerflo Matrix Pump

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    Re: One fool's method for doing a round AGP deep end...

    Quote Originally Posted by jrh1010
    Question on the liner linen, your pool walls are 48" deep. Did you buy a 48" expandable to 72" liner. And if so, how did the seam fall on the base of your wall? I am assuming it fell right on the pool cove because the bottom of the pool was raised up as well with the poly foam.
    Most of the liner stretching is done in the bottom panel. The seam generally followed my cove (I can't remember exactly where, top or bottom or?) My liner was a 72" expandable.

    I found another good link on hoppers and expandable liners I haven't seen before. Go towards the bottom of this link: http://www.inyopools.com/guide_liners.aspx I had not heard of the rope method of holding the liner during fill.

    Good luck on the pool, that sounds like a big one!
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: One fool's method for doing a round AGP deep end...

    Hey linen, and everyone else. Looks like next weekend is the date for get in the ground. I will keep you posted as it progresses. I ended up getting a 33' x 52" used. It comes with a light, chlorinator (not sure if I even need this), and a 1 hp pump. I am super excited, and nervous as I can be about getting started. Hopefully it goes up smoothly.
    33' Seaspray Aegean II - 6' Deep End
    28K Gallons
    2" Hard Pipe Plumbing
    Hayward S244T 300 lb. Sand Filter
    1 HP - 2 speed - Powerflo Matrix Pump

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    Re: One fool's method for doing a round AGP deep end...

    Also, I want to install another return jet on the opposite side of the pool from where there is one now. Which is the same side the pump is on. I am assuming this is as easy as cutting a hole in the wall and installing the return jet (with a T off the present jet line? Not to make it sound to simple, because I am sure I will run into a problem, but just wanted to make sure my thought process is right. Thanks.
    33' Seaspray Aegean II - 6' Deep End
    28K Gallons
    2" Hard Pipe Plumbing
    Hayward S244T 300 lb. Sand Filter
    1 HP - 2 speed - Powerflo Matrix Pump

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    Re: One fool's method for doing a round AGP deep end...

    If the chlorinator is a puck feeder, I would skip installing it.

    Sounds like a great pool! And huge Does it come with a filter?

    As for circulation, my pool is only 21' in diameter, but I am able to great circular motion with the one return and really have no need for another one. With that said, in your case your pool is more than 2X mine so if you do add a return to the other side, just make sure it does not mess up your circular water motion. If I was adding another return, I might think about one a bit lower to help better circulate the lower water. If you are using the same return line for both, you will want a valve that you can partially close for both returns, since the one farthest from the pipe will get starved. I am not sure how effective two returns across from each other would be? Hopefully someone else who has done this will chime in.

    Let us know if you have any other questions on the install.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: One fool's method for doing a round AGP deep end...

    It is a little big linen : ) It did come with a filter also, and a 1 hp pump. I am not sure of the filter size, I will have to look. Hopefully it will be sufficient for a 1 HP pump.

    I would definitely like to hear from someone that has installed a second return. The previous owner of the pool said he thought the pool didnt get good enough circulation when it was installed. Maybe he just wasnt very good at balancing the pool. They are very cheap to buy so hopefully 2 is better than 1 and a second return would be beneficial. I think I will start a new thread after I search just to get some feedback.
    33' Seaspray Aegean II - 6' Deep End
    28K Gallons
    2" Hard Pipe Plumbing
    Hayward S244T 300 lb. Sand Filter
    1 HP - 2 speed - Powerflo Matrix Pump

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    Re: One fool's method for doing a round AGP deep end...

    Are you still considering a deep end?

    Quote Originally Posted by jrh1010
    I would definitely like to hear from someone that has installed a second return. The previous owner of the pool said he thought the pool didnt get good enough circulation when it was installed. Maybe he just wasnt very good at balancing the pool. They are very cheap to buy so hopefully 2 is better than 1 and a second return would be beneficial. I think I will start a new thread after I search just to get some feedback.
    A new thread for this might make sense...might get more attention then being lost in here. I have searched a little on here and have not found much information on this. If you thread is fruitful, maybe post a link in this thread at some point.
    TFP Expert who uses Pool School and my TF100 test kit along with PoolMath for my: Round 11K gallon AGP with deep end, 20" sand filter, Matrix 1hp 2spd, 6 2ftX20ft solar panels (and solar cover!), Intex SWCG (copper bars disconnected) and a Rubadub hot tub (chlorine). The SLAM process is not finished until: 1. CC < 0.5 ppm, 2. An OCLT < 1.0 ppm and, 3. The water is crystal clear.

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    Re: One fool's method for doing a round AGP deep end...

    I like the idea of a second return for an above ground pool anyway. Then you can have a fountain or poolskim running and still get good circulation.
    TFP Moderator
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    Re: One fool's method for doing a round AGP deep end...

    Yes I am (hopefully) still doing the deep end.
    33' Seaspray Aegean II - 6' Deep End
    28K Gallons
    2" Hard Pipe Plumbing
    Hayward S244T 300 lb. Sand Filter
    1 HP - 2 speed - Powerflo Matrix Pump

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    Re: One fool's method for doing a round AGP deep end...

    Ok, I'm going to start posting pic's of my 21' with 6' deep center install.
    Not sure if it's going to work or not, but I'm going to try!
    1st off, this is not going fast for me, it's too hot all the time and was hot early this year.
    Being very busy at work doesn't help either as I just want to come on here to TFP.com and to sit in the air conditioning and rest.
    2nd, I didn't have near enough skills to run the mini excavator, so recruiting the son (video gamer) was the trick but took 2 weekends, a month apart, just to get the digging to where I'm at now.
    I hope to finish off leveling, setting paver's, start laying sand, weed blocker, and maybe a little further this weekend, want to get this pool up BAD.
    Sherri and the grandkids wants to swim now that I spoiled her with a TFP all of last summer.
    I'm 14" down inground at the walls and about 69" in the center.
    Using the transit I bought off Craigslist is nice... but takes another helper to hold the ruler.
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    Swim n Play 21' round, expandable 72" liner, 6FT deep center, buried 14", 12,750 Gallons
    Waterway 1HP-2 speed with 22" Sand filter
    TF-100 test kit
    Thanks to TFP my pool is perfect all the time :party:
    I now suffer from Sparklypoolitis! :whoot:
    I am a Platinum contributor because I want everyone who comes here to Trouble Free Pool to have the same success that I enjoy with my pool and family.

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