Become a TFP Supporter Pool Math Forum Rules Pool School
Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: Remodel Regrets (circulation failure)

  1. Back To Top    #1

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Garden Grove,CA
    Posts
    2

    Remodel Regrets (circulation failure)

    Greeting from a So. Cal. Newbie to this group. I just had my old Anthony 1960 IG plaster pool remodeled this last summer (replaster, add a bench, and all new hardware and plumbing). It cost me about $15K (about $2.5K in out of pocket extras, aside from pool contractor covered work - pump, filter, heater, Jandy valve, etc.). I wanted a deep blue pool, which is why we picked a medium blue quartz. The pool guy talked my wife out of a dark color, and I never could convince her otherwise, so the contractor sprayed a mottled light blue quartz instead. Not what I wanted, and now my wife regrets letting him push her around, color-wise (turns out he was recently sued - and lost - for getting another customer's medium blue quartz job wrong, and he was afraid that I'd sue him if I wasn't happy, too). My bad for not sticking to my guns.

    In any case, my original copper returns entered the pool at a sharp angle, and my pool used to circulate and skim great. On the new returns, in slightly different locations (newly drilled holes in the bond beam), same side of pool, the PVC returns were installed at 90 degrees to the pool wall. The pool didn't circulate at all, with the returns blasting water across the pool toward the opposite wall, where the "kidney" shape bulges in. I can actually see permanent continuous lines across the water surface, when the pump is running, where currents clash. My pool swirls in two vortexes now, with a zone on the skimmer side of the pool that barely gets skimmed, while the middle of the pool has floating debris that never leaves the middle. The vortex on the shallow end just goes round and round, never crossing the pool to reach the skimmer. A couple of bottles of Mrs. Stewart's bluing confirm flow patterns. The pool contractor said that this was good, how he did all his pool jobs (the original copper returns installed by Anthony never piqued his curiosity about their sharp angle of return). I read him the riot act about this and a quickset fouled skimmer weir that didn't float or skim. He finally installed eyeball returns, but I haven't been able to find any angle that gives me circulation. I seem to need a 80 to 90 degree angle on my returns. What do I do to get my circulation back? I fixed the skimmer on my own. Help!
    13k+ gal IG new colored quartz saltwater pool,
    Pentair VS pump, DE filter, 400k BTU heater,
    plumbing, 2 Infusion venturi returns, no circ.

  2. Back To Top    #2

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Denton, TX
    Posts
    5,061

    Re: Remodel Regrets (circulation failure)

    Welcome to TFP! Sorry to hear about your remodel woes.

    Is there any way that you can upload a diagram of your pool that includes skimmer locations, return locations, and any other features that you feel might be pertinent? Do you have all of your returns pointed in such a manner as to circulate your water in one direction?

  3. Back To Top    #3

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    South Central NJ
    Posts
    3,192

    Re: Remodel Regrets (circulation failure)

    By and large, the wind handles the vast majority of the surface stuff to the skimmer(s). I might agree with you some that the PVC returns could have been angled but without a picture, nobody can be certain. For the most part though, it shouldn't matter much. Water comes in, water goes out. As long as there is some distance between the two, the chems should mix over time, as they should.

    The new returns should have been where the old ones were only under ideal conditions. Yours may have been on too sharp an angle to effectively been core drilled, from your description. That would leave them to be crushed inwards, filled with cement, new ones installed using PVC near by and then newly plastered with whatever you chose.

    The sky controls the water color for the most part, not the plaster color. It does have a small effect but not a large one. It sounds like you were expecting a large effect.

    You can have two identical pools, right next to each other, plastered with the same batch/lot number and they will be different. No two are the same. I personally think darker plasters are more of danger, especially at night, than lighter colors.

    Scott
    Owner of - PoolGuyNJ LLC
    Expert Pool and Spa Repairs, Renovations, and Augmentation. Helping people decide what is the right gear for meeting their needs. Expectations Set, Expectations Met, No Surprises.

  4. Back To Top    #4

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Garden Grove,CA
    Posts
    2

    Re: Remodel Regrets (circulation failure)

    Thanks for the prompt replies. I'm attaching two images here (sorry, but my Photoshop skills are minimal):


    (hopefully that works - haven't done this in a while...).

    Scott, I'm a newbie here, so I truly don't intend to be offensive, but your reply sounded a bit like what a customer would expect to hear from their pool contractor, after the color didn't "work out" as expected. I know what to expect with the color of quartz that we picked, as I visited a friend's pool with the same quartz formula from the same supplier and local vendor (NPS) where my pool contractor bought his supplies. I picked a medium dark blue plaster, as this delivers darker water (especially at a 9.5' deep end). The very light blue that was sprayed in my pool was near white, even after acid washing. I can compare before and after photos, and the color is almost the same. That wouldn't have been the case with the medium blue quartz formula, that had lots more deep blue and black in the mix. Getting the mix into the mixer and pumped consistently through the hose to the other customer's back yard pool was what caused his previous problem of inconsistent color.

    In any case, I'm over that, but I need my water to circulate (for the skimming, more than chemistry). Santa Ana winds here blow lots of debris into the water, and my neighbor's macadamia tree doesn't help things, either.

    I'd call my pool contractor back to fix the problem under warranty, but I can't stand the bellyaching I'd have to hear. Been there, done that... If I could get the wind to blow constantly towards my skimmer, I wouldn't have posted this message.

    I made a big investment, expecting things to be "right" when done, but perhaps that's an unrealistic expectation nowadays. That's why I'm trying to resolve this myself, with valued advise from this forum.
    13k+ gal IG new colored quartz saltwater pool,
    Pentair VS pump, DE filter, 400k BTU heater,
    plumbing, 2 Infusion venturi returns, no circ.

  5. Back To Top    #5
    Mod Squad zea3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    9,200

    Re: Remodel Regrets (circulation failure)

    Could you give us some information about your old pump vs your new pump? I notice the new pump is varriable speed, do you know what speed it is set to run at on a daily basis? What horsepower was the old pump?
    TFP Moderator
    Helpful links: TF Test Kits,TFP Pool School, PoolMath
    Vogue 21' round AG, Pentair 1 hp 2 speed pump, 36 sq ft DE filter, Hayward S180T 150# sand filter, Houston, Texas
    Love TFP? Become a
    TFP Supporter!

  6. Back To Top    #6

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Denton, TX
    Posts
    5,061

    Re: Remodel Regrets (circulation failure)

    Yes, having the two and only returns right next to one another on one side of the pool makes things tough. I kinda wonder if pointing them opposite of one another might give you the best chance of skimming stuff.

  7. Back To Top    #7

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    1,129

    Re: Remodel Regrets (circulation failure)

    Have you tried this type of return fittings? http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0038A8LE ... 358&sr=8-3
    15,600 Gallon, 16' x 32' In-Ground Vinyl Pool
    Pentair VS 3050 pump, Quad DE 60 filter and SunTouch controller
    8 gallon Liquidator, Aquatherm EcoSun Solar Panels, 2 wheel ThePoolCleaner

  8. Back To Top    #8

    In the Industry

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    1

    Re: Remodel Regrets (circulation failure)

    I have seen this done time and time again. It is obvious that he could have saved a lot of plumbing and trenching and put the returns right next to the equipment pointing away from the skimmer thus creating at least a possibility of circulation with a couple of return fittings. Its ugly and they will break often; but you can just make an elbow with a threaded male on the returns to circulate pool. I have done this with success and it will only cost you a few bucks a year (you can just unscrew them when the important company comes over). When doing jobs like this it is always helpful to consult an experienced, pool serviceman (owner operators are the best) as they are usually masters of function. Pool builders and renovators don't usually have to take care of the pools they build or repair.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •