Hayward pump tripping breakers

[kenandshari]

I'm trying to help a neighbor out with her pool here. Whenever we turn on the pump it trips the circuit breaker on the control box and the pump does not run. Resetting the breaker trips the breaker in the house fuse box.

I noticed a grey wire routed from the control box to a flow sensor in the pipe and wonder if this is the cause of the problem. The wire was laying on the ground and may have been shorting things out. My pool has all Pentair I am pretty familiar with it. - No real experience with Hayward though. Her pool is all Hayward - Pump, Filter, Cleaner, Aquarite/plus automation Controller, SWG. It is a fiberglass IG model of about 13K capicity. No solar, only water feature is a waterfall.

So my questions: Could this wire be the cause of the problem? Is this flow sensor required for operation? What's the best way to test it to see if this is causing the breakers to trip? I'm thinking that I can just ensure the wires are not shorting and test it. Any harm in running / trying to run the system without this flow meter operating.

 

[bobodaclown]

Will the motor turn by hand? Sounds like a motor/stuck impeller issue. Also check the connections for tightness.

 

[kenandshari]

Thanks for the suggestion. I worked late today and expect to tomorrow as well. Hopefully I'll have time to check on it Thursday or Friday. I'm guessing that i can reach the impeller through the leaf basket opening on the pump (basket removed of course--never checked one before). If the impeller turns then I'd think it is good. I know that the pump is about 2.5 years old because I helped the previous owner replace it. It is a Hayward super pump so I would think that the pump should still work fine. Also, the entire pool area is enclosed in a screened in lanai so there is not a leaf or debris problem. Still don't know about those wires though. They are broken off of the flow switch. I did a little web research and found that the part is a HARWIL Q-12DS FLOW SWITCH. There is current running through it and if it is shorting then the GFCI is doing its job by tripping the breaker. I'm thinking that if the impeller turns fine then I may ensure the wires are seperated so they can not short out and try it again. My pool has a VS pump with Easy Touch automation that even controls my solar heating, but no flow switches anywhere. (I was very hands on with my installation even taking time off from work to become part of my PB's crew) I can't think of a reason that this thing would be required for operation and of course there's the obvious open wires, so perhaps that's the next logical step to figuring this thing out.

 

[thepoolman]

That is the flow switch for the salt system. Should have nothing to do with the pump. If it's shorting out, it's telling the system that there is enough flow to turn on the salt system. The reason you don't see one on your system is because it's part of the cell housing. If you take the single screw off the cover that says 'flow' on the intellichlor, you'll find something like that.

The super pump is an easy one to break apart. 4 bolts and you're in. Split it apart so you can really inspect it.

 

[kenandshari]

OK, capped the wires and tried. Breakers still tripped. Took the pump apart and found no debris inside. It was difficult to turn the large circular portion (kind of like an outer water wheel) with what appeared to be the impeller inside. The entire thing rotates, I guess it is all one mechanism? See photos. I worked the impeller section around a bit so it all turned fine and tried to run the pump with it separated just to see if it would work, but it still tripped the breakers. Does anyone have any further suggestions about this problem? It was working fine and running normally last week, then it just quit. It is still in disassembled for now. Thanks for the advice so far.

 

[thepoolman]

If I understand you correct, the thing you're calling a water wheel is the impeller. That should spin easily and smooth. Bearings have probably gone bad. You can rebuild or replace.

 

[Ohm_Boy]

If it spins freely by hand, but still trips the breaker, it is likely that the motor windings have shorted. It would be time to bring in a meter and check the resistance between the two power terminals, and between each terminal and the housing.
How long does it take from power-up for the breaker to trip? If it is instant, then it is probably a short. If it takes a moment or so, it may be overloading.

 

[swimcmp]

Turn breakers off, remove motor end cap, disconnect power wires from motor, wire nut them seperately, turn power back on. Breakers trip you have a problem between breakers and wire nuts. Breakers dont trip motor is bad. That simple

 

[carlscan26]

Once the motor is fixed you will need to fix or replace the flow sensor for the salt cell or you may have catastrophic damage to the system and I believe even possibly an explosion and associated risks of that...

 

[thepoolman]

The Salt system just won't work without it

 

[carlscan26]

What if he's connected the wires together?

 

[kenandshari]

OK, we did the checks and with the pump totally disconnected it did not trip any breakers. There is a lot of rust on the bottom of the motor casing and dirt and grit on the inside of the motor. I think the motor is bad. The PB that installed her pool did not put the equipment on a raised concrete pad and that may be the reason the pump has not lasted very long. I discussed it with my PB and he feels that is is a contributing factor to the early failure. She's looking into replacing the pump and elevating it off the ground this time. Thanks to all who responded.

 

[kenandshari]

Thanks for the advice from all. She ended up calling my pb for a new pump. He stopped by last night for a visit to say thanks for the referral and he's going to put in a pad and install it all as it should have been from the start. Interesting to note is that I heard that the pb that did the initial install went out of business here about a year ago. Somehow I'm not surprised.