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Thread: Re-plumbing and re-furbishing an existing pool

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    Re-plumbing and re-furbishing an existing pool

    I am doing a total refurb on my pool and would appreciate as many suggestions as possible. The house was a recent purchase and I am doing a complete overhaul on the pool, mechanical, deck, coping, lighting, plaster, fittings, etc. While I'd like to use the best and latest, budget is definitely an issue.

    I am located in New Orleans. My pool is probably 20 years old. Sometime in the past the plumbing was upgraded from 1.25” copper to 1.5” pvc. The current pump and filter are shot.

    Current Setup: ~21k gallons (16x33, 3-7ft deep), 1 suction line from skimmer @ 1.5”, 2 return lines @ 1.5”, Polaris booster pump with Polaris return (Polaris 280), I have not found a main drain line and do not know if there is one (pool is currently a swamp so I cannot see the bottom).

    The equipment is currently located in the middle of the patio. The previous owners thought that a large lattice work box was just the thing to hide it. I disagree and will be moving pump, filters, etc. to a shed that I have constructed 36' away from the skimmer and returns. The ground in NO is flat, so elevation is not an issue.

    I’d like to keep the design simple and I plan to have all new plumbing run (from skimmer and to returns) so that,hopefully, there will be no leaks when done. I prefer not to replace the current skimmer or add another skimmer. The current skimmer is encased in concrete so I doubt that changing the pipe size coming out is possible.

    * If the skimmer outlet is 1.5", is there any benefit to upgrading to a larger pipe from the skimmer to pump?

    Most of the contractors that I have interviewed recommend upgrading to 2” pipe for the returns and adding one return (for a total of 3). One recommended adding a suction line through the wall to supplement the skimmer.

    Salt Generator: I plan on using the CompuPool CPSC26 (I had this model on my previous pool with no issues for 4+ years).

    Pump/Filter: The PB is recommending 1hp Whisperflo/Triton II (tr100c). Is this a good match for this setup?
    * I was actually wondering about a Intelliflo VS/tr100c, 2 speed superflo/tr100c, (or other pump/filter?) setup.
    * Is an Intelliflo recommended/needed?
    * Will the energy savings be significant (I think that my current cost for electricity is $0.04779 per kWh)?
    * If Intelliflo is a good choice, and considering that I do not want the expense nor complexity of a control system, is the Intelliflo VF a better fit than the VS? (Obviously, I'd prefer the VS because it's cheaper, but do not want to ignore the potential electricity savings of the VF over time.

    Lighting: Intellibrite 5g with controller.

    I would love a water feature. I was thinking about adding 4 deck jets unless someone can recommend a less costly addition. If added, I was thinking about repurposing a 1.5 pump (with its own suction from pool wall). I already have the pump.

    * However, I am wondering if the Intelliflo could handle the additional load considering the lack of flow on the suction side?

    Again, I would prefer to avoid too many electronics, so I’d like to avoid a central controller based on cost and (my perceived) complexity. I would be sticking with mechanical timers plus the VS’s built-in timer or Intermatic T106M if going with a 2 speed pump, or ???.

    Thanks!

    I hope this is enough information because I do not have a history with this pool on which to rely.
    ~~~~~~~
    Trae - 16x33 Inground, Pentair (TR100C, IntelliBrite 5g, Whisperflo WFDS-26), Hayward Goldline Salt System with T-Cell-15, Polaris 280 Black Max

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    Butterfly's Avatar
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    Re: Re-plumbing and re-furbishing an existing pool

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    You're done SLAMing when:
    1)You lose 1ppm or less FC overnight, & 2)You have .5ppm CC's or less, & 3)your water is clear.

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    Re: Re-plumbing and re-furbishing an existing pool

    IMO, if you do the math and ck the price differance, the savings are worth the vf pump and would also go with the 2 inch plumbing every where I could.The other thing that will help your saving is going to the 420 clean and clear. cart. filter.For you to turn the pool over 3 times a day you will need to turn 43.75 gal. per min.Your savings should be severel hundred dollars a yr. over a 1 hp. whisper flo.

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    Lershac's Avatar
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    Re: Re-plumbing and re-furbishing an existing pool

    The two speed pump is cheaper up front, and at your low cost for power (that is CHEAP, I live in BR and pay .085) the cost savings from lower power usage will not justify a vf or vs pump. Though I gotta tell you I have the vs and am glad I spent the extra for more control.

    Upgrade the size of all the pipe to 2" and do add a wall return if there is no main drain. The additional distance will be negligible.

    I have all the gosh-bang electronic automation, and love it, but you have a preference and comfort level so stick with what you are comfortable with. You can always add it later! It was very expensive.

    Good luck and check out your contractor before you sign anything or pay. I had a horrid contracting experience, you can check my build thread in my sig for details.
    (DIY):16K Gal 20X30 rectangular IG Gunite, w/spa, CCP 520 filter,2 Pentair VS pumps, 400KBTU Pentair gas heater, Heat Pump for cooling, **update5.25.2013** added an intellichem with acid pump that will control existing SWG. My Build Thread Here

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    Re: Re-plumbing and re-furbishing an existing pool

    Quote Originally Posted by TonyP3rd
    (I think that my current cost for electricity is $0.04779 per kWh)?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lershac
    (that is CHEAP, I live in BR and pay .085)
    Off topic but can I run an extension cord to your house? The lowest tier is approx .15 but I'm out of that on like the third day of the month! I pay .41 per kwh at the top tier. Sometimes Ca sucks.
    DONE, 20 x 40, inground gunite, 30" raised bond beam with 3 12" sheer descents, 8' diving board, pentair 420 cartridge filter, vs-3050 pump, intellechlor ic-40, auto cvr, Tahoe blue pebble tech, 6ea 4' x 12.5' & 2ea 1' x 12.5' helicol solar panels, legend robotic cleaner.

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    mas985's Avatar
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    Re: Re-plumbing and re-furbishing an existing pool

    Quote Originally Posted by TonyP3rd
    * If the skimmer outlet is 1.5", is there any benefit to upgrading to a larger pipe from the skimmer to pump?
    Yes, there is a benefit. The short transition from 1.5" to 2" is not a big deal but the long run of 2" pipe will have a material effect on efficiency.


    One recommended adding a suction line through the wall to supplement the skimmer.
    I would rather see larger suction lines on the existing skimmer than having a wall port. The wall port will reduce the flow rate in the skimmer so the skimming action will be reduced.


    Pump/Filter: The PB is recommending 1hp Whisperflo/Triton II (tr100c). Is this a good match for this setup?
    If the pump is a 1 HP up rated 2 speed (WFDS-24), then that would be a good choice. If it is a full rated 1 HP, then it is probably a little oversized.


    * I was actually wondering about a Intelliflo VS/tr100c, 2 speed superflo/tr100c, (or other pump/filter?) setup.
    The SuperFlo is a good choice for a 1 HP uprated or even the 3/4 HP uprated but usually on smaller plumbing. If you are planning to up size the plumbing, then I would recommend the Whisperflo WFDS-3 or WFDS-24 (same pump).


    However, given the energy costs that you pay, the Intelliflo would probably not be the most cost effective choice due to the higher price of the pump and controllers if needed so for your situation, I would go with a low HP two speed.
    Mark
    Hydraulics 101; Pump Ed 101; Pump/Pool Spreadsheets; Pump Run Time Study; DIY Acid Dosing; DIY Cover Roller
    18'x36' 20k plaster, MaxFlo SP2303VSP, Aqualogic PS8 SWCG, 420 sq-ft Cartridge, Solar, 6 jet spa, 1 HP jet pump, 400k BTU NG Heater

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    Re: Re-plumbing and re-furbishing an existing pool

    I'm not sure how much gunk gets in your pool, but an added virtue of 2" pipes is that they are less likely to clog. Here are some things I'd do if I were redoing our pool (it was rebuilt about 10 years ago I think... we bought the house about 2 years ago so I'm not sure):

    1. Add a second pool light in the shallow end. No matter how bright the current light is in the deep end, the placement of that light leads to shadows in the shallow end. This is caused by the built in spa wall that curves into the body of the main pool. I would add a second light niche just to get rid of these shadows and make the overall lighting coverage even.

    2. Add "eyeball" fittings to the returns. This is probably something I can do as a retrofit, but should have been done during the last plaster job. Eyeball fittings help to aim the surface flow to direct leaves, etc. to the skimmer.

    3. Add a second skimmer. Given the spa issue, this also tends to block some of the flow to the skimmer in the deep end. A second skimmer would help to minimize waterlogging of leaves, causing them to drop to the floor.

    4. Add a suction or pressure-side pipe for a cleaner line. Actually, ours has a suction side line already, but I thought I'd add this for your sake if you don't already have one. I really think our suction side MX8 does an admirable job at keeping the pool clean.

    5. Make sure that equipotential bonding grid is up to code. I'm really not sure about ours, as I don't know how old the pool is. On top of that, the lines connecting the rebar could have rusted away, so I really don't know its integrity. I just removed the 120V lighting and replaced with 12V, so my electrical risk concerns are minimized. But, having a good bonding grid is really important to the overall safety of the pool. Have yours checked during the rebuild and make sure they extend the bonding grid wire to your new equipment pad. Along with this, ensure that all equipment is GFCI protected and all electrical is up to code.
    38K in ground pool with attached spa. Current equipment: Easytouch 8 (521150) with IC-60 SWCG with web control by Autelis, 1x Pentair IntelliFlo 011018 pump (for filter), 1x Pentair 2HP WhisperFlo pump (for waterfall), 2X Pentair IntelliBrite 5G 12V lights, Pentair MiniMax400 NG Heater, Pentair SMBW2060 DE filter. Zodiac Barracuda MX8 cleaner on dedicated cleaner line. Lighting/home automation controlled by Insteon/ISY-99i.

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    Re: Re-plumbing and re-furbishing an existing pool

    Thanks for all of the advice. I've made some purchases (check out the updated signature). It looks like I oversized the pump, but I got this one at about $200 less than what the WFDS-24 would have cost. mas985 - Based on your expertise, I would have probably spent the extra money and gotten the WFDS24 but I had already purchased before seeing your reply.
    ~~~~~~~
    Trae - 16x33 Inground, Pentair (TR100C, IntelliBrite 5g, Whisperflo WFDS-26), Hayward Goldline Salt System with T-Cell-15, Polaris 280 Black Max

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