Inground Spa seems to lose water...

[bpham]

I have a in ground bar and pool, which both connected to the same pump and cartridge filter tank. Recently I notice:

1. When the pump is NOT running, after 4-8 hours, there seems to be losing about 3-4 inches. I marked the water on the pool, did not see the water level changed there. However, what it means is that when I ran the pump, the water in the spa would be filled from the pool, and therefore the pool would seem to lose some water.

2. If I released the pressure from the filter tank, that is, I opened up the release valve on the tank, then the water in the spa does not go down and the pool water level seems to be same.

3. There is constantly water trickling out from the front house drainage, which is by the pavement of the house's front drive way. There is a hole at the bottom of the cement pavement next to the street.

I already looked at the Jandy valves at the pump and also the one that looks like a Jandy valve without the handle and the cover is a clear cover, and all do not seem to have any crack on the rubber seals. There does not seem to be any leak around the pump area and any pipes that I can visually inspect.

The ground does not seem to have any excessive mud nor overly wet areas around the pool. I also turned off the sprinkler system for over a month already. I already cleaned the filter yesterday and the issue is still there.

So the mystery is why does the spa lose water? why there is water trickling out from the drainage at the front house pavement drain hole? I'm not sure that the pool pipping system is a closed system or is it connected to the main drain? Or is it that there is a leak in the bottom of the pool somewhere which I can't see.

Thanks for any information or suggestion on how to fix or identify this issue.
[attachment=0:2r2li7db]photo(2).JPG[/attachment:2r2li7db]

The Jandy lever at the bottom left is to control the water coming from the pool and the suction of the cleaning robot. The robot uses the same pump as the filter pump. The top left Jandy lever is to control the water from the pool and the spa. The right top Jandy lever is to control the water going out from the heater to the spa or pool. And the right most clear Jandy-like control without the lever is I think to shut/open the water to the spa from the heater and the Jandy lever at its left.

[attachment=1:2r2li7db]photo(3).JPG[/attachment:2r2li7db]

The pool has the skimmer on the ground and the bottom of the pool has another, i believe, a drain. The skimmer has 2 holes, one goes to the pump and the other hole, I'm not sure. The spa has one drain at the bottom and another one about 3 inches up from the bottom, on the side of the seat. There are 4 jet holes on the side of the wall , but one does not seem to spray water and in fact, it seems to suck in water, not strong, but I can feel the suction. I think this hole is plugged. How do I unplug it without having to call a repair man? I have to give this information because it might/might not be the cause of this leak.

 

[bpham]

I tried to upload some pictures of the pipes and the filter tank but some how i don't see it with the post.

 

[zea3]

Please try to upload pictures again. If the code is wrong we may be able to fix it so the picture will post correctly.

 

[XsAllOverIt]

Make sure when you're running water through your spa that the main drain in your spa is closed off, i.e. water is running through the spa but not being taken out. That would require the water to go through the waterfall. Otherwise, if you're taking more water out of the spa that is returning to the spa, you will keep losing water. Doesn't matter where the water comes through the filter and if you are returning most of it through the spa, circulation for the entire system results because water is continuously going to the pool from the spa.

If your pumps are off, you also want to make sure that the valves are set so only water is in/out of the spa or in/out of the pool so gravity doesn't take over and drop your spa level.

 

[bpham]

Hi,

Can someone help, if you're not clear on what I've posted so far, please ask me to clarify.

Since I opened the pressure valve on the filter tank 2 days ago, the water level in the spa remained same, no water loss. However, after marking the pool water level 2 days ago, I noticed that it lost about 1/2 inch of water. Is this water loss normal for 2 days (the temperature here is around 45 degree at night to 75 degree high)?

Thanks.

 

[XsAllOverIt]

You can lose 1/2 inch of water in two days, but you need to perform a bucket test to determine if it is a leak. Water trickling could be anything. It could be ground water. Does your filter have a setting in which you can send your water to waste, and if so, does that drain near the driveway release a lot more water if it is in waste mode? A bucket test would be best to determine if you are losing water. I lose about 3/4" of water in my spa during the winter when the water is at 70 degrees, but the outside temperature is from 20-50 degrees. I truly think that is all from evaporation. During the summer, I have very few times I have to fill water.

 

[mas985]

I would double check the check valve on the spa return side. If it doesn't seal well, the spa will drain backwards through the pool return when the pump is off. One way to check is to shut off the spa return 3-way valve so both sides of the spa are shut off. If it doesn't leak overnight, then it is likely the check valve.

How do I unplug it without having to call a repair man?

You can remove the jet exterior fitting and there is a nozzle inside the jet pipe that can be removed. Once removed, turn on the jets and see if that clears out the blockage.

 

[bpham]

Mark,

Sorry I'm not that good with this stuff, please clarify:

Which one is the check valve, is it the clear window valve without the handle at the bottom right of the first picture below?

The spa return valve I think you referred to is the tallest and middle Jandy valve (in the first picture) that allows the water that comes from the lowest left Jandy valve (where the pool water return) and the water return from the Spa?

The lower left and the tallest Jandy valves are about 10 years old. When I took them out and looked at them few days ago, they don't seem to have any cut/torn marks, but they seem to evenly worn out. Do I need to replace them and can they cause the water loss issue in the spa?

I do appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions. Thank you.

 

[mas985]

Which one is the check valve, is it the clear window valve without the handle at the bottom right of the first picture below?

Yes

The spa return valve I think you referred to is the tallest and middle Jandy valve (in the first picture) that allows the water that comes from the lowest left Jandy valve (where the pool water return) and the water return from the Spa?

Not quite, the tallest valve on the left right in front of the pump is from the suction ports of both the spa and pool. The 3-way that is a little lower to the right is the return valve (return in pool speak is for water that is returned to the pool. Opposite of HVAC speak). The clear valve to the right of that is the check valve. That can be removed and inspected as well.

 

[bpham]

Mark,

It is clear now. I did remove and inspected it, it was kind of new, replaced about 2 years ago, when I had the filter tank and pump replaced. The rubber flap inside seems to be in good condition, but I will close the return valve to the spa and see in the next 2 days. I also have a bucket of water filled with water and i marked the water level inside the bucket and then placed it inside the pool on the tallest pool step and also marked the pool water level inside. I'll inspect them again in 2 days.

Thanks again for your help.

 

[bpham]

Well, replaced the check-valve, no change. Also shut the return valve to the spa, no change. I noticed that if I released the pressure in the filter tank and so the water in the spa did not drain, after 2-3 days, there was no water leaking from the drain hole on the pavement in front of my house. The minute that I close the pressure valve on the filter tank and turned on the pump, later on the water was trickling out of the front house drain hole again. There has to be something that connects the pool pipe system with the drainage, but I've not been able to find where. I do have a blue print of the pool/spa, if that helps, I can upload it to some of you to see.

Thanks.

 

[mas985]

Yes, definitely a schematic will help but I need to clarify a few things.

I am having a hard time following what is going on. I need to know exactly what happens to both the pool and spa levels overnight and does the irrigation show water for each of the following scenarios:

Spa Return Valve Open
Spa Return Valve Closed
Spa Return Valve Open with filter valve open
Spa Return Valve Closed with filter valve open

Did you also confirm that you do not have an overflow port in the skimmer?

 

[bpham]

Mark, I will provide the info soon. Thanks.

 

[bpham]

Here is the skimmer picture looking down into it. There are 2 holes, one I'm pretty sure goes back to the pump/filter, the other hole, I'm not sure. I think it might connect to the drain at the deep end of the pool...Please see the diagram picture below So Mark, to answer your question, I don't know.

Picture of the skimmer:
[attachment=2:qsus6hxd]skimmer.jpeg[/attachment:qsus6hxd]

Here is the picture of the pool diagram:

[attachment=1:qsus6hxd]pool diagram.jpg[/attachment:qsus6hxd]


For the spa, I notice that there is one jet that is clogged, the jet that did not have full water spray coming out. I tried to use a metal wire to unclog it, but it only went in about 1 foot, same for other unclogged jets. I think the pipes might be going at an angel after the first foot. Question: What else can I do to unclog that jet, without having to call a repair man?

[attachment=0:qsus6hxd]spa.jpg[/attachment:qsus6hxd]


Thanks for any suggestions.

 

[bpham]

Sorry, if the pictures are too small, let me know and i'll upload them again. Thanks.

 

[mas985]

The pictures are too small to see clearly but if your skimmer had an overflow, it would be a small hole above the water line so if the water got too high, it would drain out of the hole. The holes in the bottom of the skimmer are for the main drain/wall port and the run back to the pump.

But getting back to my last post, I am still confused about the various setups and what happened in each condition. Can you please explain again if the spa drained and/or you saw water out of the irrigation pipe for each of the following situations:

Spa Return Valve Open
Spa Return Valve Closed
Spa Return Valve Open with filter valve open
Spa Return Valve Closed with filter valve open

 

[bpham]

Mark,

At any positions of any of the Jandy valves, there has always been some water trickling out of the irrigation pipe (below is the house drainage design). However, if I released the pressure from the Filter Tank, and waited for a couple of days, then the water seems to stop the irrigation drainage in the front of the house as in the picture below.

[attachment=2:2odxmmka]drainage.jpg[/attachment:2odxmmka]

There is no overflow hole in the skimmer as far as I can see.

Below are the pool design and also the spa with one jet clogged. I'm wondering if the clog jet is causing all of the havoc with the pressure in the system.

[attachment=1:2odxmmka]pool.jpg[/attachment:2odxmmka]

[attachment=0:2odxmmka]spa.jpg[/attachment:2odxmmka]

 

[bpham]

Sorry, dont know why these pictures are so small...let me upload them again.

[attachment=2:3aa2qp2u]spa_small.jpg[/attachment:3aa2qp2u]

[attachment=1:3aa2qp2u]pool.jpg[/attachment:3aa2qp2u]

[attachment=0:3aa2qp2u]drainage.jpg[/attachment:3aa2qp2u]

 

[mas985]

However, if I released the pressure from the Filter Tank, and waited for a couple of days, then the water seems to stop the irrigation drainage in the front of the house as in the picture below.

Does that also lower the water in the spa below the jets?

One thing you could try is to fill the spa again and run it for a while and see if the water out of the irrigation pipe increases. If so, then I would suspect the spa return jets and it could very well be the low flow jet.

 

[bpham]

Mark,


The Spa level did not go down if I release the pressure from the Filter Tank, and after a couple of days,then the water seemed to stop trickling. HOwever, I only did this test once and observed the water trickling from the front house drainage. The tests to observe the level of water in the spa with the filter tank pressure were done many times and it was consistent that the water level in the spa did not go down.

I also did the test of filling the spa with water, without releasing the tank pressure, the water still went down and the irrigation pipe still had water coming out. If this is the case of issue with the jet's low flow, how do I fix it or try to fix it? Thanks.