Neglectful Pool Owner

[mida]

I'm reading over the posts and can see that I really need to take the time to learn how to maintenance our SWG pool. It's about 5 years old and it feels like it's all falling apart.

Without asking too many questions, the big ones in front of me are:

1) We have a SWG - several pool repair guys, leak detection techs (our spa was draining out, now fixed) etc.. have told me if it were them, they'd just add chlorine once the salt cell needs to be replaced. My husband went to Leslie's and they said that was the stupidest thing we could ever do to a pool. Comments?

2) I can see that lack of maintenance (just adding Muriatic Acid and Salt to get the yellow and pink levels OK) has caused some scaling in the spa. We just bought a small 4 way test kit from Leslies, based on reading these forums, I should be testing for a lot more than chlorine and PH - a link in one of the articles to Leslie's kits is broken. Any advice on the best kit I can get?

I'll try to put the rest of the information in my signature. Step 1 is finding out how many gallons our pool holds - I have no idea.

Thank you for any help in advance!

 

[Buford]

A useful tool to find your pool volume and a bunch of calcs to determine how much chemicals to add (or what effect a chemical will have) is the pool calculator http://www.poolcalculator.com/

I like TF Test kits http://www.tftestkits.net/ Look at the speedstir (best thing since sliced bread) and maybe a salt test. I am sure others will make suggestions.

Read though the pool school, the link is in the upper right corner of this page.

Welcome! and please let us know how things go.

 

[supertune]

Hi mida and welcome to TFP!
Lots of reading here will help you more than the pool store can. It's Free!! :-D
As was suggested by Buford, a good kit is needed and the TF-100 kit is a great one. (this is also the one I use) Salt testing is needed in your case as well.
Once you have a kit, follow directions here:
what-we-need-to-know-to-answer-your-questions-t10341.html

I did not have a good 1st year with my pool, the pool store always had me chasing this problem or that problem and adding stuff like every week or two! Never was happy with all the $$ I spent and my pool was never that nice, like the day I filled it.
I wouldn't have a pool today if not for all of the wonderful people here on this great forum/website.

Now in the very short time I have followed the advice here, my pool is always perfect, I spend way less $$ buying all the powered bags from the pool store and the understanding of my pool chemistry is priceless, now I truly have a Trouble Free Pool!

Chuck
P.S. This also has become one of my favorite links to help back.
click-here-to-become-a-troublefreepool-com-supporter-t183.html

 

[mida]

Thanks so much, I can see that my pool as about 25K gallons. Wondering why I get so much odd pool advice from all the different repair and maintenance people! :?:

I have a SWG and need to replace the salt cell - which we can't do so it will be close to $800 or so by the time it's fixed. I'm told by about 3 out of the 4-5 pool guys I've had to look at our heater (broken) and our draining issues (fixed) that "If it were me, I'd just add chlorine and forget about the salt system" - are they off base? I have no idea if a SWG is any different than a chlorine pool if we just change how we work the system.

Thanks!

 

[bobodaclown]

There's a lot of good info in pool school:
pool-school/

It's basically pour in chlorine every day or so use the SWCG to produce it while the pump is running. The choice is yours.

 

[Buford]

Thanks so much, I can see that my pool as about 25K gallons. Wondering why I get so much odd pool advice from all the different repair and maintenance people! :?:

I have a SWG and need to replace the salt cell - which we can't do so it will be close to $800 or so by the time it's fixed. I'm told by about 3 out of the 4-5 pool guys I've had to look at our heater (broken) and our draining issues (fixed) that "If it were me, I'd just add chlorine and forget about the salt system" - are they off base? I have no idea if a SWG is any different than a chlorine pool if we just change how we work the system.

Thanks!

Everyone has an opinion, usually based on their own experience. What I had to deal with, were teenagers at a pool store, that had been trained to sell product. If you spend some time here, you will learn what works and what you want to deal with.

You haven't given any additional information, like water temp, brand of SWG and test results. I use plain old Clorox when the temp is lower than 70 because my generator will not make chlorine when the temps get low. I also use bleach to shock. Basically, all a SWG does is make chlorine, one can also use liquid chlorine, granular chlorine or tabs, each has its own merits and drawbacks. I use a swg to keep from dragging home jugs, pouring it in and recycling the empties.

Let me suggest this, read the pool school (link in Bobodaclown's post), get a first rate test kit (I use TF, link is in Supertunes sig) and do a google search on your brand SWG (see bottom left of this page). I suggest this, because your quote seems odd and you might be able to fix or replace the cell on your own.

 

[gordiec]

Welcome to the forum!

The SWG can be useful if you travel or just aren't home everyday to add chlorine to the pool. If you post some information about your SWG system, someone may be able to figure out what is wrong with it (or confirm the need to replace the cell). Model number, approximate age, water temperature, and symptoms (indicator lights or system messages) would be a good start.

 

[mida]

Thanks again, I'm looking at the Pool School and the TF-100 test kit and am a little overwhelmed. Will have to think on what steps to take next (figure all this out or hire someone to help out.)

BUT, I am learning from your answers, the 3000 ft view is that SWG = less work, less chemical vs Chlorine = less money up front but more work and more chemicals (ie all the jugs of chlorine.)

Lots of learning and thinking to do

 

[bobodaclown]

Thanks again, I'm looking at the Pool School and the TF-100 test kit and am a little overwhelmed. Will have to think on what steps to take next (figure all this out or hire someone to help out.)

BUT, I am learning from your answers, the 3000 ft view is that SWG = less work, less chemical vs Chlorine = less money up front but more work and more chemicals (ie all the jugs of chlorine.)

Lots of learning and thinking to do

You've got it. It is overwhelming at first, but becomes routine. Chlorine kills the nasties, the filter collects the dead nasties and such, and the pump keeps it all flowing.

 

[Richard320]

First up: Welcome to TFP. Just remember that trouble-free is not the same as maintenance-free!

Second: A full, proper, test kit is a must. But don't toss the Leslie's kit - it uses the same reagents for what it does test, and the extra vial is handy with a speedstir. You will learn more about test kits in Pool School.

Third: If I had a SWCG already plumbed and wired in, I'd use it! I have no problems with my water using jugs of bleach, but a generator would let me leave town without much in the way of planning ahead. I Imagine once you get a make and model off yours, a little googling should find cheap parts and directions to replace the element. Once you have a real cost, then decide if it's really cost-effective to repair or switch to liquid.

Fourth: Get used to the search function here. And also look for the sticky posts in each forum room. They will save you much typing out questions.

 

[supertune]

Thanks again, I'm looking at the Pool School and the TF-100 test kit and am a little overwhelmed. Will have to think on what steps to take next (figure all this out or hire someone to help out.)

BUT, I am learning from your answers, the 3000 ft view is that SWG = less work, less chemical vs Chlorine = less money up front but more work and more chemicals (ie all the jugs of chlorine.)

Lots of learning and thinking to do

Yes, I was really scared thinking how hard this is, but when you do the right things to the pool water and it does exactly what it's told to do, this will reinforce your confidence. Remember this, your pool water is no different than anyone's here and we all have been in your shoes.
It's really not that hard once the fear resides.
Continue to read and ask questions...you'll be fine. Well I see you already getting it figured out!

Chuck

 

[Buford]

+1 for Richard's and Chuck's posts. I actually got my answers by using the google feature. Which means, many others had been in my place, before I ever landed here, about five months ago. Kind and knowledgeable folks helped the others though their problems and unknowingly took me along.

When I finally figured out the pool was for enjoyment, I could then make mistakes, learn from them and make adjustments to fix it.

One other thing, you may not get the answer you want, but, if there is any way possible, you will get the answer you need.

 

[zea3]

Hi welcome to TFP! You can post pictures of any equipment you have trouble identifying, or if you can't understand what the specifications on the labels mean. Tell us what general geographical location your pool is located in, that will help us determine if any issues you have are weather related. For now, take a sample of pool water and have a complete set of tests run and post the results here. Do not buy anything until we have a chance to review your test results. Once we have analyzed your test results we can guide you further and help you understand what is going on with your pool.

 

[RobbieH]

Let me add something to what all has already been said. It should not cost you $800 to replace a salt cell. I put in a whole salt system for less than that, and it's sized for a 60,000 gallon pool. I believe poolnpatio.net may have the cell you need (if you need one) for a whole lot less, and they are simple to replace.

Since you mentioned scaling, I'm thinking that might be your cell's issue. It is just a matter of soaking the cell (not the eletronic head end) in a mild acid solution to remove the scaling. You can usually find the owner's manuals online once you know which system you have, that's where it should be detailed.

I haven't met a pool store owner or maintenance guy yet who owns their own pool. I'm not saying they don't exist, but I haven't met one yet. How experienced can those people really be?

 

[anonapersona]

One big thing that can happen to a SWG pool is that if the stabilizer level is low, the unit has to work too hard to keep up. That uses up the cell pretty fast. And, if you have scaling potential, the more your run the unit the more scale you get.

So, you need to get a good test of the CYA level.

I don't have a SWG pool but did help a friend fix hers. Their pool had gotten to 0 CYA, the unit ran at 100% and could not keep up so they got black algae. And the kids had ear infections. They had a pool service but they never tested CYA. Should this be the problem you can calculate the volume of stabilizer you need to add, then adjust the unit to run at less % or less run time or both. After you check for scaling on the cell, of course.

 

[mida]

Re: Neglectful Pool Owner - Got TF100 and the data!

I don't know if I should continue to post here, let me know if this needs to be moved. I am hoping all of you helpful people can point me in the right direction now.
I got the TF-100 and salt test strips, here is what I found on my first tests:

Pool volume=approx 20,000 gallons, SWG, Jandy is the manufacturer of most of the equipment

Salt= 2640
CL = 3ppm (from 2 different tests, this is FC also right?)
PH = 8.2 (we need to add acid!)
Combined Chloramines = 0
Total Alkalinity = 120
Calcium Hardness - I'm not sure, I could not get the test to turn back to blue. We have very hard water so I'm assuming it's off the charts?
CYA - also, very strange. Followed directions to a T and I could see the black dot just fine until the solution was over the top of the vial.

I don't understand the Bromine test - it has the exact same directions and solution to use as the Chlorine, what's the difference?

Issues:
1) I was told the salt cell is not working and the system is beeping that it needs maintenance. If I have chlorine, isn't it working? The temps here in S. Ca have not been that cold, daily highs are 70-80 degrees F over the last few weeks. Water temp is 51 degrees F in the afternoon . Should I try to maintenance it at all?

2) We have some pitting and a few areas where the plaster is coming off. What can I do to stop this?

3) We have white buildup on parts of the tile where water flows over it.

4) Heater says the pool is 115, lol, so it won't heat up.

5) All the lights have water leaking into them so we had them disconnected. Thinking those are something we just write off, too expensive and hard to fix.

I'll stop for now... Thanks so much for all your help, I hope I can figure out what to do with these numbers!

 

[ROB N]

Ok, I'll see if I can help... I do not have a swcg, but i will try to help. You have fc so the scwg is working provided you have not manually added chlorine. If I am not mistaken you need about 3000ppm of salt so you might need to add salt. Also, I do Beleive your water needs to be warmer than 51* for the swcg to function efficiently. But someone with more knowledge of swcg's will be along to confirm or correct my info on that. You have no cc so you do not have algae, that's good! You need to add MA According to the pool calculator you need to add 26oz to get to 7.4. Being that you have high CH and high PH and reading your post, you almost certainly have scale. The only way to get the CH down is a reverse osmosis treatment or drain and refill a portion of your water. We dont know how much till we have a CH reading. You have little to no CYA, which is causing your swcg to work overtime, which shortens the cells life. You need to add 167 oz of granular or415 oz liquid CYA/stabilizer to get it up to70-80 range. Good luck, you will do fine, like everyone else here ask questions and use the search function we will help as we can. We all at one point knew very little but learned through the great people and advice given on this site! By the way, Welcome to TFP!

 

[Buford]

mida:
Have heart! I would guess if nobody is putting chlorine in, then the generator is producing. I am not sure at what temp, usually under 60?, they are unable to operate properly. I would bet someone will be along to help, with maintenance suggestions or repairs. Also, do you have an owner's manual? I ask because (in my case with a hayward brand) it has instructions to clean the cell, salt levels in the water, and at what temp it quits working. Zodiac (Jandy) has them on the product page, in pdf format.

You have a TF100, which is the same in chemistry as the K-2006 by Taylor, you view video demonstrations here: http://www.taylortechnologies.com/produ ... ber=K-2006 There are other vids available under the video window and many more articles and vids around the web site. Makes me wish I had stayed awake during chemistry, when I was in skol.

If either the CH or Cya are higher than can read, there is a dilution procedure, mentioned on this site and on Taylor many times. (google is your friend). The TF instructions have an alternative test for CYA diluting the sample for high levels of CYA, part of the instruction follows :
"Mix sample as above then cut 50/50 with filtered tap water; do the black-dot test, and double the reading.OR, mix a smaller sample to begin with:"
If you do not have instructions, there are a bunch on this site or ask, I am sure anyone will send you one. Also, I would use distilled water to dillute, to avoid interference with tap water calcium, metals, etc.

The same thing is true of the CH test. But I am not familiar with high CH, so I probably have this backwards. You test 10ml of water (instead of 25), use 10 drops of r10 (instead of 20) and three drops of r11L (instead of 5); multiply the drop count by 25 to get ch. This also is on the instructions.

You will notice, we love pictures! You might send some of the white scum line and the pitting.

You describe "white" stuff, that sounds like scale, and if that is the case, there are many with experience here that will advise you, and I will bet you have a lot in the generator's cell (which is not that difficult to clean). We need to concentrate on getting good numbers, which means getting you comfortable with your kit.

 

[Buford]

Mida,

You may also want to test your tap water or get a copy of the water quality report (available online for my municipality) to get an idea of what is in the fill water, so you can evaluate options.

Maybe, if the calcium is high enough, you could bottle it and sell it to prevent osteoporosis (or whatever calcium supplements are used for).

 

[anonapersona]

So, did you correct the pH yet? Use the Pool Calculator to find the amount of Muriatic Acid to add to the pool. Read in Pool School about it, but in general, wear eye protection, pour it slowly where a return will mix it into the pool, while pool is running. Since you are not totally sure of the volume of the pool, best to use half the amount you think you need, let the pool circulate an hour, then retest and recalculate the volume needed. If the pool behaves as expected, then the pool volume and TA are correct.

After the pH is correct, then begin correcting the CYA level. You may be more certain of the pool volume now, based on the pH effects above. Get some Stabilizer. I like the HTH brand we found at Walmart because it dissolved easily when put into a stocking in front of a return. Use the Pool Calculator to determine what you need, add enough to get to.... um, maybe 65 CYA for now. You can raise it up some more for the summer later.

You may still need to clean the cell, but just getting the CYA fixed should allow the pool to retain more chlorine and so the SWG will have to work less. Then there is less pH rise and less scaling, somewhat.

As for the scaling in the spa, a few questions. Is the spa connected to the pool, like with a spillover? Does the spa circulate to the pool most of the time? After you use the spa, do you set it back to circulate to the pool before shutting it down? I was having algae start in the spa when I did not circulate the hot water out to the pool. I think that the heat and bubbles ran the pH up and the FC down, then when I let it sit overnight bad things happened. Now I just run the whole pool on circulate to dump the hot water into the pool and get some chlorinated water back into the spa when we are done.